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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 12, 2007 17:59:28 GMT -5
A friend and I had a debate about whether or not the wrestling fans as a whole are always right if they like/don't like something.
As an example, he said if the majority of fans started cheering Cena, then it must have been right to push him to the moon and change his character to a more fan-friendly one, even if the character sucks.
On the flip side, of the majority of fans reject someone, like Conway for instance, then it must be right to force them back to curtain-jerker status.
I argued that the fans don't always know what they want a lot of the time. They cheered Batista too, but we see what a sack of crap he turned into once they pushed him. Now they're stuck with his ass. I said you can't run a promotion based purely on the fans cheering/booing a guy momentarily.
Now Vince has done both, he turned the Rock when people hated him, and he's pushed people no one wanted (like Mark Henry), and not pushed people the fans seem to like (like Matt Hardy).
If you were Vince, what would you do? Simply listen to the fans in the arena, or think of the fans' wishes as one piece of a larger puzzle?
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Post by royboy8 on Apr 3, 2007 12:34:12 GMT -5
I say no to this. I cite this example as to why I say no. Back about 8 or 9 years ago in wcw when Flair was gone, for months fans were chanting loudly at every tv show, we want to Horsemen or 4 Horsemen. So when Flair does come back and they reform the Horsemen, the fans go nuts the first 2 weeks or so then just quit caring completly. To the point of where the Horsemen has to turn heal.
Same goes for the reformation of Harlem Heat. The fans wanted it so badly, then once it happened, noone cared. I'm sure there are countless more examples that can be used from the present, I just cant think of any right now.
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Apr 3, 2007 12:41:48 GMT -5
The problem is creative 95% of the time doesn't follow through properly with a push. Cena got cheered and got over for being "edgy". So, they turned him into a smiling jackass. Basically, they turned him into what made people hate Rocky Maivia in the first place. And it's not the first time they've done this. For years they've tweaked the characters of heels that got over, and erased their appeal completely. Guys like Diesel, who went from silent killer, to a manufactured smiling imbecile, and HBK who went from arrogant and cool to naming his fanbase and accepting roses from fat girls at ringside. Hell, look at Orton. Same deal. WWE sabotages their "good guys" and doesn't even realize it. Then 12-14 months after anyone cares, they finally turn them heel when they can't figure out what went wrong.
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Apr 3, 2007 12:43:42 GMT -5
I can only speak for myself and not wrestling fans in general. I know that I am always right in terms of what entertains me, but that which entertains me does not necessarily entertain the masses. In fact given from the fact that the last wrestling DVD I purchased and watched had about 50 people in the crowd, I'm guessing that I don't represent the masses.
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Post by Arturo Classico on Apr 3, 2007 12:49:46 GMT -5
The problem comes in no one wants the clean cut baby face anymore The Rock and Austin proved that. They need to give there faces some sort of edge and not be the smiling good guy no one wants to see that they could make a guy as a bad ass and most girls would like them anyway thats somewhat attractiveand as the kids argument they'll like almost anybody thats a face , I remember kids wearing Austin shirts.
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Ace Baretta
Unicron
WE ARE NASHVILLE (May 1, 2010)
Posts: 2,554
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Post by Ace Baretta on Apr 3, 2007 12:50:18 GMT -5
It really depends on who you are booking for.
If you're booking fora live crowd, the same crowd, every night (as some indies to), then yeah, cter to the fans, let them decide who they like, to a degree. Sometimes you have to go against the fans for one reason or another.
If you're bookin for TV, and are travelling around, than you book for the TV. Not every city boos Cena, a majority still cheer, so you book the majority and hope that the booking is strong enough to carry over to the mass majority.
NEVER book to the internet.
Well, not solely to the internet...as the internet marks are the most fickle in who they like/dont like.
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EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
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Post by EJS on Apr 3, 2007 12:56:39 GMT -5
Each individual fan knows what they want, but when you have millions of them, theres going to be plenty of times when stuff a lot of people want piss off people who want other stuff.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Apr 3, 2007 13:06:19 GMT -5
It works both ways.
There are some guys you need to MAKE the fans care about.
Other times....you need to stop shooting yourself in the foot by pushing someone that sucks just because you like him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2007 13:07:49 GMT -5
They're not always right, but usually are.
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
Posts: 14,613
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Post by Rick Mad on Apr 3, 2007 13:08:37 GMT -5
I'll say no, but: When it comes to cheering or booing, they're always right. The only time they're wrong, I'd say, is in wanting a big match as soon as possible, and wanting an angle's payoff as soon as possible. But I guess this isn't even really what the poll is asking.
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mat7h3w
Trap-Jaw
Toothless Agression
Posts: 433
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Post by mat7h3w on Apr 3, 2007 13:09:40 GMT -5
The problem is creative 95% of the time doesn't follow through properly with a push. Cena got cheered and got over for being "edgy". So, they turned him into a smiling jackass. Basically, they turned him into what made people hate Rocky Maivia in the first place. And it's not the first time they've done this. For years they've tweaked the characters of heels that got over, and erased their appeal completely. Guys like Diesel, who went from silent killer, to a manufactured smiling imbecile, and HBK who went from arrogant and cool to naming his fanbase and accepting roses from fat girls at ringside. Hell, look at Orton. Same deal. WWE sabotages their "good guys" and doesn't even realize it. Then 12-14 months after anyone cares, they finally turn them heel when they can't figure out what went wrong. I'd have to completely agree with you there. Almost every time some character gets mega over with the fans, with the possible exception of a rare few, i.e the Undertaker being a prime example, they tweak or change the character in such a way that a lot of fans can't stand them. I honestly don't think the fans are always exactly right, but in the end it is the fans that buy the tickets, merchandise, and ppv events on TV. I could understand them turning Cena into a smiling yes-man if they followed through with it by making him some corporate heel, much like they did the Rock. Yet, they didn't, there was no follow-through. So, we are subjected to him being a smiling jackass, and an unstoppable superman for years on end. That's part of an overall major problem in wrestling, in my view. In any other television series, if a writer is bad, and a story takes place that tanks the ratings, the writer gets fired. In wrestling, the opposite seems true, and the writer just keeps going and going. Mix into that the fact that Vince always seems to feel the need to do his own meddling with the product, and it gets even worse. Granted, it is his show and his company, but anyone should realize when something obviously isn't working, and take a step back. Just look at ECW. Sure, some former ECW originals have been quoted as saying they don't think fans really want barb wire and flaming tables anymore. Yet, look at the first One Night Stand ppv. That event was obviously Paul's baby, and the fans loved it. It was true to the original ECW. Then, they bring back the brand full-time and turn it into some bastardized version of itself, the ratings tank, and even known WWE mainstays, ala Big Show and Kurt Angle, can't even save it. |
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Post by Loki on Apr 3, 2007 13:19:28 GMT -5
According to Vince, they're rarely right... We all became unbelievably fickle and jaded, so what's fine today could become hated tomorrow. I don't think I have to list all the Superstars who have fallen from grace around here in the last three years  So the bookers have to try to please the majority, and majority is easily influenceable... so once they find a formula and/or a guy that can generate money, they'll milk the situation til the very last bit, and even beyond... Generally speaking, WWE have made a decent job in telling the crowd what and who to boo/cheer, and when they couldn't have their way, they listened to the crowd but just as long as needed to fix the status quo, promptly reverting to the old script (see Cena-Edge-RVD-Cena) Sure, people may be back or may be pushed by popular demand, but the creative and the owners won't go out of their way too much... Clearly, this works mostly for big promotions, who have to appeal to a very very large audience. Small promotions HAVE to listen to the fans to survive. |
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Post by Galluchadore on Apr 3, 2007 13:45:06 GMT -5
its the same any business. the business has to listen to its consumers,fans, customers or buyers in order to do well. If the wwe had a real competitor it would have to listen more closely to the fans wants and desires (the attitude era is a good example as most people consider that a great period). sadly there is no real alternative for most fans to get their fix.
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