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Post by Aaron E. Dangerously on Apr 29, 2007 19:15:54 GMT -5
Looking at the overrated wrestlers forum, there were a couple comments about how Edge really isn't THAT great of a heel because of his often use of "cheap heat".
Personally, I find nothing wrong with that. After all, people do tend to boo you once you insult them/their hometown. But it does make one wonder about the QUALITY of the heel.
I think Raven was a very high quality heel. He went outside the box, utilizing the depth of his character in his career to be hated.
Then you wonder, how does a guy become a good face? How does he get people to keep cheering for him, week after week?
You'd be hard pressed to find a squeaky-clean face that continually got cheers in this day and age from more than 95% of the crowd. Most of them are tweeners or anti-heroes.
It's hard to base what even makes one a face these days. The landscape has changed so much, as has the wrestling fan. Kids still love the supermen, the guy who overcomes the odds. But winning over the 18-45 demographic all while being the nice guy is a lot harder.
So the question is, which is harder to play: A heel wrestler, or a face wrestler?
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TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
Posts: 23,724
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Apr 29, 2007 19:19:34 GMT -5
Anyone can be a dick so I'd say being a heel is much more easier.
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Tom
Don Corleone
Power Of Station.
Posts: 2,018
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Post by Tom on Apr 29, 2007 19:22:54 GMT -5
It's a lot harder to be a successful face.
One quick disrespectful slap to your opponent's face can get you Heel heat, and whilst there are obviously more advanced levels to being a thorough Heel, and certain properties requiring talent, it can be that easy to simply get a crowd to dislike you.
Getting a crowd to like you requires talent on any level.
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Post by Guns of the Samuri on Apr 29, 2007 19:33:02 GMT -5
Actually, to me, it seems to all hinder on how a crowd reacts. Stone Cold is a good example of this. In that time, he had the the makings of an old school heel. But the crowd loved him. When it comes down to it, it's just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks
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hbkjoec
Trap-Jaw
DIESEL POWER!!!
Posts: 496
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Post by hbkjoec on Apr 29, 2007 22:10:58 GMT -5
Actually, to me, it seems to all hinder on how a crowd reacts. Stone Cold is a good example of this. In that time, he had the the makings of an old school heel. But the crowd loved him. When it comes down to it, it's just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks That's what the WWE does with 100% of its ideas, throw the crap at the wall and see if it sticks. Sometimes it works and is cool, 80% of the time it slides down ever so slowly.
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nostradumbass
Tommy Wiseau
The only man to be booked in TNA and not look like a jackass
Posts: 89
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Post by nostradumbass on Apr 29, 2007 22:24:36 GMT -5
It's quite hard to make people boo you if they don't care about you. Vice versa.
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
Posts: 11,338
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Post by Garee on Apr 29, 2007 22:30:22 GMT -5
Its much hareder to make someone like you, than make someone hate you
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Post by -Lithium- on Apr 29, 2007 23:13:59 GMT -5
Damn, for the first time like, ever, no one voted "Heel" just to do it...
...ILL DO IT.
Naw, but Im sure someone will now...
EDIT - ...someone just did it...
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Apr 29, 2007 23:32:55 GMT -5
I think it is harder to be a great heel now (especally after Austin). I mean since Stone Cold, every time someone gets up there as a heel, the crowd starts to love him. It happened to Cena, Lesnar, Rock and to a lesser extent Kennedy and it is really sad.
They do some amazing things and get the crowd hating them but, they seem so cool in doing it that the crowd cheers for them. This cause the WWE to see dollar signs (as well as potentially the next Austin or Rock) and they start making shirts, creating catchphrases and other things to make money off it. The talent see the money they make off of merchandise and stop caring about trying to be a good heel and start doing all they can to make more cash.
To be a good face you need good heels and the lack of good faces makes me take notice of the lack of good heels.
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Apr 29, 2007 23:39:18 GMT -5
All a Heel really has to do is yell at the crowd, cause you to question your definition of sexuality, beat up plants, cheat, talk about his crazy passport and show contempt for everyone. A face actually has to make people like him.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 29, 2007 23:56:14 GMT -5
being a jerk is easy...
getting people to like you is hard.
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sands666
AC Slater
Your fate is in my hands
Posts: 142
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Post by sands666 on Apr 30, 2007 10:22:55 GMT -5
being a face it's easy being a heel because you can get over with the crowd easier
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Post by Avalanche Alvarez on Apr 30, 2007 11:43:36 GMT -5
You've got a higher ideal to uphold when you're a "face". A "heel" can do pretty much whatever they want.
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Post by kwydjebo on Apr 30, 2007 12:03:51 GMT -5
For many wrestlers, heel is easier. As mentioned, Austin and the Attitude era kinda changed things.... Rocky Mavia was everything a good face should be.....the fans wanted him dead. Austin was a very good heel. The fans started cheering him.....so they put him against heels.....but his character was still pretty much the same..... Heck as a heel the Rock got people to hate him so much that the hate turned to love.... Lex Luger was an okay heel but a horrendous face (Personally as bad as the Narcissist may have been to some people....I think his followup "All american" was infinitely worse)
Someone mentioned about throwing idas against the wall and seeing what sticks.... That (As I understand it) IS the wrestling business. Promoters have done that since day one. Try things out, and see what the fans like. When something works, ride for as long as you can. Squeeze every penny out of it you can make, then move on. Personally I think the trouble is that they do a lot of the ideas now half heartedly, or they give up on a lot of them too quickly, while others they stick with too long. You never know what the fans will like. A loud mouthed, angry, beer drinking brawler who cusses, bad mouthes his boss, and genearlly just raises hell is one of the biggest faces of wrestling history.....who'd have thunk it? (And would it have worked 5 years earlier? )
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Post by Old School Heel mark4Morishima on Apr 30, 2007 12:48:36 GMT -5
It's easier to get over playing a heel, but harder to be a heel consistently.
heel = bad guy & face = good guy is a false equation.
The face speeds things along and gives the people what they want. The heel slows things down and brings them to a standstill.
Remember Kennedy's "I AM BUZZKILL" promo a couple weeks before WM? Storyline-wise he was in the right morally, but he was putting himself in the way of a match people wanted to see. Got enormous heat.
Now, if you're just doing bad stuff, sooner or later people are going to cheer something. If you're putting down your opponent, you might let a clever putdown slip out and the crowd cheers. Or while you're heel-cheating, you might put a guy through a table and the crowd cheers because they want to see a guy put through a table.
This is how heels like Cena and Carlito (or for that matter Austin) get cheered. In the course of acting bad, they give people what they want to see.
To me that's a lack of experience, talent or dedication rather than something laudable.
A really talented heel is constantly on the lookout for cheering and constantly on guard to turn it back into heat. Playing that to the hilt requires you to overcome the natural desire to get cheered. It takes a selflessness and dedication that few guys have. Edge does, Kennedy does.
Now, playing a face requires a constant sense of what the people want so you can give it to them. That's hard, but it doesn't require overcoming your natural instincts.
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Post by Bobafett on Apr 30, 2007 15:05:02 GMT -5
well..I remeber Eddie saying in his book its the fans who ultimately decide if you are a face or a heel, I mean he could lie cheat and steal and get cheered like mad for it
but with some faces, for example Cena and Doink, once people cheer em, creative mskes em faces and strips em of the very things that made he crowd cheer for em in the first place
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Post by kawalimus on Apr 30, 2007 15:11:03 GMT -5
I'd say face is much harder to try to pull off. I'd love to see a gimmick where a guy is a heel who gets cheered and his gimmick is that he's trying to get booed. And when he shows up the crowd cheers him and it drives him nuts because he wants everyone to hate him. It's probably already been done but I think it is a really cool idea.
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Post by EvilShadow76 on Apr 30, 2007 15:13:01 GMT -5
It seems like being a face would be. Anyone can get people to boo them with those generic insults WWE heels use, but being a face would take some work with getting the crowd on your side and keeping them.
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Post by wolfmoon103100 on Apr 30, 2007 16:14:44 GMT -5
Steamboat must be one of the best faces ever, always having fans on his side.
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