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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on Jun 25, 2007 12:55:48 GMT -5
If anyone made Orton it was HHH. If anyone knocked his career off track further, it was HHH. What Lenny said has alot of truth to it. Foley was always very much the Rocky archetype. That regular guy like you were in your back yard who didn't fit the mold, but came up big in big moments. I guess this part of his career where he's losing is like the movie Rocky Balboa.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 25, 2007 12:58:28 GMT -5
If anyone made Orton it was HHH. If anyone knocked his career off track further, it was HHH. What Lenny said has alot of truth to it. Foley was always very much the Rocky archetype. That regular guy like you were in your back yard who didn't fit the mold, but came up big in big moments. I guess this part of his career where he's losing is like the movie Rocky Balboa. That's actually a very accurate way of putting it. Many would say Rocky should of ended with Rocky 3(I do), and many say Foley should of stayed retired(Eh, Maybe, but it's better than Hogan).
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Post by Nice Guy Cody on Jun 25, 2007 13:11:07 GMT -5
Orton I'll give you, Foley MADE Orton...but nothing he's done since then has had that kind of impact. Foley did not make Orton. One match doesn't make a wrestler. If anyone made Orton it was HHH. Not only did he make Orton, he made HHH too. He will always be remembered for two things...falling off a cage and for having a sock on his hand. That's not much. Plus some book or another. Oh, and something about winning the title and a truckload of people switching the channel to see him do it. Cane Dewey. The first time Cactus Jack appeared in WWF. Some feud or another with some jobber called the Undertaker. That time he made HHH, that time he made Orton. His feuds all over with Terry Funk. This is Your Life Rock. Tag teaming with Maxx Payne for a brief but memorable stint in WCW. Dude Love. Doing a "Superfly" at Summerslam '97. Should I go on? Yeah, Foley's impact on wrestling is minimal at best. Now tell us again about how John Cena is inarguably the biggest draw in wrestling history, and that anybody who doesn't believe the supposed collossal numbers he draws make him the greatest of all time is "stupid" and "wrong".
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Bones58
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Post by Bones58 on Jun 25, 2007 13:13:07 GMT -5
Foley did not make Orton. One match doesn't make a wrestler. If anyone made Orton it was HHH. Not only did he make Orton, he made HHH too. Correct! HHH wasn't truely over as the companies top heel until he beat Cactus in the Street Fight and in HITC and with that earned the respect and heat to make him just that.
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Swarm
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Post by Swarm on Jun 25, 2007 13:36:52 GMT -5
Foley's impact on wrestling is minimal at best. I agree.
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What?
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Post by What? on Jun 25, 2007 13:43:09 GMT -5
Foley's impact on wrestling is minimal at best. I agree. BURN!
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on Jun 25, 2007 13:47:18 GMT -5
Foley's impact on wrestling is minimal at best. Probably true. You can't compete with guys like Rock and Stone Cold. But his impact on me was great. He's one of those guys. Either you admire him a ton, or you don't see the big deal.
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Post by skillz on Jun 25, 2007 13:55:01 GMT -5
I think it's clear that Foley is purely in it for the money at this point, and there's nothing wrong with that (I never understood why people get so enraged when wrestlers ask for a lot of money). However, it's equally clear that he has no rub to give anymore. Everyone knows he's going to lose whenever he's put into a match. As he gets older, and the fanbase starts to swift (like it has already), then guys like Foley are not going to maintain any credibility moving forward. That's why his jobs are meaningless, and why he can't be counted on to draw money anymore (same with Flair).
Is Foley even helping the business at this point? To me, helping the business would imply creating a situation where fans want to spend money to watch you and whoever you are working with. If it builds a star in the process, then that's icing. Foley is doing neither. If you put Cena against Foley in a main event, who is going to care? Nobody. Put Cena in a main event against Austin, Hogan, and Rock....and (as the fad goes) you have a license to print money. Why? Because those guys are/were smart enough to not kill their entire character by "doing what is best for the business" every single time they are on television.
A wrestler is only as valuable as his credibility dictates. That's why I have no problem with wrestlers using "politics", whether it's Hogan, HHH, Undertaker, HBK, Austin, or whoever. Put me in a business where the op guy makes the most money and I have no insurance, 401k, etc, and I'd be abusing my power so much it would make HHH say "whoa, settle down". Frankly, if Foley did more of that, he'd probably be a lot more valuable right now.
Is Foley self-absorbed? Probably. Every top star in every form of entertainment likely is to varying degrees. Who really cares? What Foley needs to worry about is the fans not caring about him anymore. I haven't watched wrestling since '05, and Foley is a distant memory to me. I can't imagine how people who didn't see him in his Attitude Era prime feel about him.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 25, 2007 14:39:28 GMT -5
Minimal at best?!
So making Rock work as a heel, Triple H into the biggest heel ever possibly, making Orton, shaping Edge, inspiring legions of wrestlers, changing the way people looked at gimmick matches with weapons, having a HUGE part in winning the Monday Night Wars, and more, is absolutley nothing.
You, uh, new to wrestling?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2007 15:23:18 GMT -5
What exactly is a wrestler supposed to talk about exactly? I can just imagine it now Foley: Hi folks, I was asked to come out and promote my upcoming WWE championship match Crowd: What? Foley: However what I'd like to talk to you about is the English county fairs Crowd: What? Foley: I feel that they are part of a dying breed and there should be more of them dammit of the counties of England are under threat if not * Foley heads backstage * Foley: Oh buy Vengeance btw Crowd: What? P.S. The preceding post was my lame attempt at a joke, knowing this forum as I do, I'd just thought I'd make that abundantly clear just to be safe
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jun 25, 2007 15:26:42 GMT -5
Minimal at best?! So making Rock work as a heel, Triple H into the biggest heel ever possibly, making Orton, shaping Edge, inspiring legions of wrestlers, changing the way people looked at gimmick matches with weapons, having a HUGE part in winning the Monday Night Wars, and more, is absolutley nothing. You, uh, new to wrestling? QFT
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jun 25, 2007 15:28:15 GMT -5
Minimal at best?! So making Rock work as a heel, Triple H into the biggest heel ever possibly, making Orton, shaping Edge, inspiring legions of wrestlers, changing the way people looked at gimmick matches with weapons, having a HUGE part in winning the Monday Night Wars, and more, is absolutley nothing. You, uh, new to wrestling? QFT INDEED!!!!!!
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Swarm
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Post by Swarm on Jun 25, 2007 15:36:29 GMT -5
Minimal at best?! So making Rock work as a heel, Triple H into the biggest heel ever possibly, making Orton, shaping Edge, inspiring legions of wrestlers, changing the way people looked at gimmick matches with weapons, having a HUGE part in winning the Monday Night Wars, and more, is absolutley nothing. You, uh, new to wrestling? QFT Like I said...Mick Foley is one of the most overrated wrestlers in the history of the sport. Thanks for the example.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Jun 25, 2007 16:48:14 GMT -5
Orton I'll give you, Foley MADE Orton...but nothing he's done since then has had that kind of impact. Foley did not make Orton. One match doesn't make a wrestler. If anyone made Orton it was HHH. Despite everyone constantly booing the crap out of Orton as a face?
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Flexy Lexy
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Post by Flexy Lexy on Jun 25, 2007 17:02:40 GMT -5
Mick Foley used to be an everyman. Then he started to look down on fans when he was invited to Air America and Al Franken's Hollywood crowd of jet-setters.
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Jun 25, 2007 17:11:35 GMT -5
I just see Foley putting himself over as part of his character. Besides, everyone brags about themselves, so who gives a crap?
Also, if you think Foley will only be remembered for falling off a cage and putting a sock over his hand, then you need to slap yourself in the head. That way you will probably remember all those hardcore matches he had in Japan, his feud with Vader, this campaign against Hardcore in ECW, his feud with Terry Funk, his feud with the Undertaker, his feud with the Rock, his feud with Triple H, all the funny promos he made in the WWF, when he won the WWF Title, how a whole lot of people changed the channel to see him win the WWF Title when Tony Schiavone said he would win the WWF Title on Nitro, how he nearly was voted Time's Man Of The Year in an online poll, his awesome stint as WWF Commissioner, how he made Randy Orton really look like a Legend Killer, how he helped Edge become a better heel, and basically how he made hardcore wrestling more than just two guys beating each other with weapons.
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Jackaveli
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Post by Jackaveli on Jun 26, 2007 16:51:00 GMT -5
Ok, so Foley is put up on a pedestal by fans who go as far as to call him "God" and the moment he acknowledges he's on the pedestal fans placed him on, he's self-absorbed? lol.
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