|
Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 27, 2007 7:24:12 GMT -5
I'm a bit late here, but I watched CNN during my lunch hour yesterday (It's on all the TVs in the cafeteria), and the footer in relation to Benoit said something like "PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER KILLS FAMILY, THEN HIMSELF". I forget the exact verbiage, but it was rather unambiguous as to what happened. I just remember thinking "Well, it doesn't get much more official than that...damn." I mean, I'm sure you've all talked about this in the interim, but how the hell do you reconcile Chris Benoit, the wrestler who gave us so many great matches throughout his career, with Chris Benoit, premeditated double murderer (Say what you will about his frame of mind, but it seems clear he knew what he was doing at the very least)? Or was the personality that led to one also what led to the other? I don't think we are ever going to be able to pick one "track" of events that makes sense, it's just not that cut and dried. Track One: Chris has some kind of DV fight with Nancy, kills her, then decides that his sick son should not be raised by others and kills him too. With various levels of "maybe he killed Nancy accidentally" thrown in, this is the "he's a premeditating monster" track. Track Two: Chris has some kind of mental illness we didn't know about, OR some kind of substance-induced psychosis, and his actions were influenced by this. or Track Three: A little of both.
|
|
|
Post by Chris the Bambikiller on Jun 27, 2007 7:24:23 GMT -5
Alright, I've spent much time today and yesterday reading the threads dealing with this tragedy here, guess it's time to write something.
Imagine you were in WWE. On the road all the time, always away from your family, always just seeing the same faces (of which you probably can't stand some), and making a living basically getting beaten up a few times a week. Then imagine doing this for years, decades. No, my point is not that it drives you insane, it might, but my guess it it brings out the worst in people. I know that when I am under stress like that, I become a jerk. Now there are a few people in wrestling you never read or heard anything negative about, I'd like to point out 2 examples - Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit. How can somebody that's in this business for over 20 years not be a jerk? a) Be a truly great, pure human being, or b) just keeping it all inside, let anger and despair build up all the time. I'm guessing if (b) applies to you, all that pressure inside would eventually just be too much to contain. Now depending on your state of mind, your lifestyle, your beliefs, your family and friends, this could make you do anything - you quit your job, you get drunk every night, or you become a criminal. In Benoit's case, as it seems, his mental illness has led to this awful outcome.
Hey, I'm not a psychologist. I'm not even sure what's the purpose of what I wrote above. I guess I'm still shocked at the whole thing, probably unable to write something useful.
But to all the people who are thinking about throwing away their DVDs with Benoit matches - hey, you're only punishing yourselves. He was a great athlete who had fantastic matches, I'm sure with some distance to this whole sad affair you will be able to enjoy them again. Did you destroy your Naked Gun DVDs when OJ was found guilty in the civil trial?
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 27, 2007 7:25:54 GMT -5
Did you destroy your Naked Gun DVDs when OJ was found guilty in the civil trial? Honestly not trying to jump around the message here, but were DVDs even around when the civil trial occured?
|
|
|
Post by ellisdee on Jun 27, 2007 7:31:13 GMT -5
I have no opinion on this whole thing whatsoever.
My girlfriend called me to tell me, thinking i would be devastated,but i just seem to have gone blank.
He still is and always will be Chris Benoit to me,the one i loved and respected but no matter how much i want to deny all this it seems pretty damn real.
|
|
nisi
Vegeta
Da Bears
Posts: 9,868
|
Post by nisi on Jun 27, 2007 7:33:40 GMT -5
or Track Three: A little of both. That's what I mean, you don't get to take lots of substances without being affected by them, but you don't get a pass because you were on them. In terms of DVDs, I didn't have any Benoit DVDs to toss, but I do find it a little weird to see his image after all this.
|
|
Tom
Don Corleone
Power Of Station.
Posts: 2,018
|
Post by Tom on Jun 27, 2007 7:35:37 GMT -5
Well, I'm one of the people that has lost a lot of respect for Benoit in the past two days. It culminated last night in me deciding to forget about the man, as that's all he deserved. Though, I'm reading stuff now... the Bibles, and the way in which he is said to have killed his son... I'm starting to think that the deaths of Nancy and Daniel were two very different situations. Now that I think about it, the idea that he could have killed Daniel with the same rage as he may have killed Nancy with such a time window in between makes zero sense. He would've calmed down sometime after killing Nancy, he can't possibly have remained in an 'enraged' state for an entire weekend - the fact that they watched the PPV together suggests as much. I think he was hesitating because he didn't want to kill his son but felt he had to. Ultimately I think he killed his son to 'take him with him'. Many parents would probably rather take a child than leave them to fend for themselves.
As for the 'Cross Face' suggestions, Benoit's a wrestler. If he's going to kill somebody, he's going to do it in the way he knows how, and I imagine he knew how to kill somebody very easily. I'm not excusing anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out he used a 'wrestling' move to kill Daniel simply because it was effective, and nothing more. Again this is not me excusing anything, I'm just trying to rationalise what I think has happened.
Did he kill a woman and child? Undoubtedly. Until some unforeseen radical evidence turns up pointing to the contrary, it'll always remain that way, but let's not be blind to the fact that the motives for the killings of Nancy and Daniel, nomatter how nonsensical and unjustified, could be completely different. I'm not trying to salvage Benoit's reputation there either, I really couldn't give a crap about that. I don't really hold his career in regard anymore. The truth is, I don't know the circumstances so I can't judge, but a manic depressive parent taking a child with them out of sadness, fear or protection is simply different than being a cold hearted, child murderer.
I guess I'm saying that it's still too early to judge. We won't have a concrete idea for a while so stopping to listen would probably be better than getting upset and venting about this. Peace out,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 7:36:28 GMT -5
I wouldn't throw away the DVDs yet, as it may help those who need it get through this. I won't get rid of mine, though I don't think I'll watch them anytime soon. What gets me is how much is popping up that reminds me of him: mp3 files, DVDs, gifs that I see on another site, match results that I looked over, names of moves. On another forum, a guy mentions the Horsemen and that triggers memories. Benoit's impact on wrestling is immense.
|
|
Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
|
Post by Mr. Mediocre on Jun 27, 2007 7:36:38 GMT -5
Did you destroy your Naked Gun DVDs when OJ was found guilty in the civil trial? Honestly not trying to jump around the message here, but were DVDs even around when the civil trial occured? No. And I had the same thought, Madison.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 27, 2007 7:40:12 GMT -5
I wouldn't throw away the DVDs yet, as it may help those who need it get through this. I won't get rid of mine, though I don't think I'll watch them anytime soon. What gets me is how much is popping up that reminds me of him: mp3 files, DVDs, gifs that I see on another site, match results that I looked over, names of moves. On another forum, a guy mentions the Horsemen and that triggers memories. Benoit's impact on wrestling is immense. Was just saying this to someone in PM, about how he was tied into so much beyond his own character and matches. The person I was talking to had an avatar of Vince doing his "Stand Back" dance, and the only thing I can relate to with it is that it was made popular for this generation in an angle involving Benoit. There simply isn't going to be an "easy button" to erase him.
|
|
|
Post by wwefan78 on Jun 27, 2007 7:45:19 GMT -5
Personally I have pretty much erased this man from my wrestlingconsience. He no longer exists as far as I'm concerned. Much like WWE has decided to put this dark hole in their history behind them and move on to focus on the future. Maybe it would be the best thing for us fans to do the same..I just don't know. All I know is that nothing good can come out of dwelling on this..
|
|
Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
|
Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jun 27, 2007 7:45:58 GMT -5
You know I REALLY don't get all the OJ Simpson comparisons being made.
1 - OJ was found innocent in the murder trial. Does that mean he is? Not nessecarily. Do I believe he is? No. But the fact is we know for a damn FACT "Mr. Benoit" as Vince so coldly and perfectly put it, is guilty.
2 - OJ may be a monster, but at least he didn't smother a child, or force human growth hormone into the child's veins (Unless this has since been proven false, in which case I apologize but I'm not following this stuff anymore, its too emotionally taxing)
3 - OJ had motive. I'M NOT SAYING ITS RIGHT, but, he killed his ex-wife (oops, I mean, IF he killed her........) because she was with another man. Now we don't know if this is the case here, but we do know that Mr. Benoit had a history of violence with the story of Nancy wanting a divorce and such in 2003.
But hell, maybe this is all easy for me to say because I didn't follow or respect the career of OJ Simpson, so what he did or didn't do was no personal loss to me.
But come on....OJ? I've even read a Mike Tyson comparison! Tyson may be a derranged scumbag, but to the best of my knowledge....he's never killed a child. That we know of.
Personally I just wish we could all follow the WWE's example and just stop talking about it, stop showing the guy's face, and just erase him from history. But that's not going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by thesmallerkhali on Jun 27, 2007 7:46:42 GMT -5
Though some people think they know about mental delusion I would point out that as the brain is such a complex thing there is no set category of anything you can just say Benoit was suffering from.
Symptoms rarely manifest immediately and suddenly, but it can happen. I have had experience with multiple close friends who have had depression on varying levels, and one guy did simply say he was feeling ill, went home and then attempted suicide. It can happen, I'm not excusing Benoit, and there is no evidence or reports on the truth, but I wouldn't be surprised if a severe issue caused the death of Nancy and then in an illogical state it led to the killings of Daniel and his suicide.
There is no real excuse to say he isn't in the wrong, but out and out labeling him a cold blooded killer with no evidence is unfair and disrespectful in my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Sharpy Snow on Jun 27, 2007 7:47:41 GMT -5
A friend just called me. Trying to 'break the news' I guess. Except, all he had read was 'Benoit was murdered.'
So I told him 'It's more complicated then that' and when I told him, he just went into silence.
Still havn't told my little brothers. Hopefully, they won't find out for a long time. I would hate to be a parent right now, trying to explain this whole mess to their children, who may have looked up to Benoit.
|
|
|
Post by Old School Heel mark4Morishima on Jun 27, 2007 7:48:42 GMT -5
I'm manic depressive, and I strongly disagree. Mental illness is not the same as having no moral capacity. If nothing else, you've got the decision whether to seek treatment or not. You've got the decision whether to take stabilizing meds or not. You've got the decision whether to take steroids that exacerbate your condition or not.
Manic depression does not just suddenly come out of nowhere. It does not mean you get a free pass to kill your wife and child.
|
|
|
Post by hulkblood on Jun 27, 2007 7:55:08 GMT -5
i agree my wrestling collection is mainly VHS so i have some old videos of benoit from WCW and he did shape the face of wrestling his matches with Bret Hart and Chris Jericho are some of the greatest matches of all time and its a shame this is how it all ended.
|
|
|
Post by Chris the Bambikiller on Jun 27, 2007 7:56:02 GMT -5
Honestly not trying to jump around the message here, but were DVDs even around when the civil trial occured? Hmmm, good question... the civil trial was in 97, so no. But all three parts should have been out on VHS. Anyway, I just remembered what I just wanted to write in my last post... While I accept (there's really not much doubt left now) that Chris Benoit committed a horrible crime, I just have to think that he thought what he did was right and the best for his family. With him being mentally unstable, probably seriously ill, and possibly on drugs of some kind, his perception of what is "right" or "best for them" obviously must have been horribly wrong. Wrong to an extend where I just cannot understand the way he thought. But I just can't see the man as someone who wouldn't love, or even would hate, his little son.
|
|
manx21
Team Rocket
I Heart Hayley
Posts: 756
|
Post by manx21 on Jun 27, 2007 7:56:14 GMT -5
i'm not entirely sure i'll ever really be able to watch one of his matches again without feeling uneasy
|
|
|
Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jun 27, 2007 8:00:17 GMT -5
New thread at the top guys.
|
|