The Benoit thread - all posts and news go here.

[tragicheroparade]

There do seem to be some problems in the mathematics of this being roid-rage induced, or that Chris Benoit was simply a demonic/terrible human being that would cause him to do this. In this day and age, we lend very little creedence to the arguments of legal counsel, because it always seems so insincere and timely, but the WWE legal team does make some considerably good arguments about Benoit's premeditation.

And that doesn't make much sense to me so far as steroids go, but it also just doesn't make much sense to me plain and simple.

The idea that concussions played a part in this seems to hold a bit of weight however, consider: Steroids effect your brain functioning for very short periods of time at a time. I have taken prescribed cortisteroids before for organ regeneration, and have experienced "roid-rage", and it is not the type of anger inducement that would compel someone to hurt your loved ones. Especially when you're in a business in which you get to legally hurt coworkers every night of the week, as Benoit was.


Concussions, however, physically and permanently alter the status of your brain functions at the very least, and at a worse degree cause tangling in the back of the head. This alters the way a person thinks from it's very conception, and the likelihood of this happening increases, of course, with more concussions. Studies are just starting to come about in the last decade that these changes in thought processes often lead to depression and an increased possibility of suicide. Unlike roid-rage, where the anger is often partly or mostly adrenaline enduced, concussion-rage is a very triggered, targeted and mysterious sort of anger that's very foundation is built in a person's lost ability to reason.

Look: We in America have a love affair with the blame game. We love to look at things, and see them in a pretty black and white -- A and B happened, C is to blame, D is absolved of any blame. But that is not necessarily always the case.

I think it's very likely that Chris Benoit's ability to reason and think were impaired, (and probably have been for some time). Also, there are diseases such as schizophrenia which can linger in a person's body for years -- decades, undiagnosed, causing little harm in the day to day lives of the people who have these diseases. They can be so hard to detect at times that the person will seem completely normal. Some people will go the entirety of their lives with major psychological disease that are undiagnosed. There are probably people who will read this post who have psychological disorders that don't know it, and may never know it. But wrestler's, among a small handful of other professions that receive concussions more often, are much more likely to have triggers to relinquish these diseases.

The fact is, the Chris Benoit that committed a double murder and then proceeded to kill himself was very likely not the same Chris Benoit that you knew of and rooted for, five or ten years ago. There's no way to tell when his thinking patterns may have changed or if that was the root cause of murder at all, it's, of course, all merely speculation at this point. But as many of his coworkers and fans are now saying, even the small details, such as those of the placements of the Bible, seem distinctively out of character for him, and so the action should be taken in the same light. The man had probably progressed to an area in which nobody would have recognized him.

This doesn't remove blame entirely from him, of course. A killer is a killer. But there are different statuses and degrees and areas about this sort of thing. If Benoit would have lived to have his day in court, I think a medical examination of him would make him a much likelier candidate for a mental institution than a federal prison.

[Erik Majorwitz]

What is the latest news?

[Mr. Mediocre]

y2ejm said:

What is the latest news?

Nothing new as of right now. Just a lot of analysis. Trust me, if there's new news, it'll be brought up in this thread immediately.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

Yes what Nowinski had to say was interesting, but.....talking about Benoit taking unprotected chairshots?

You know, I can think of another guy who took a few of those in his day, and leads a.....well, moderately succesfull family life.

Ya'll probably never heard of him though.

His name is Mick Foley.

And I don't see any of the Foley kids dead.

[Deleted]

godz said:

And you can play the victim card all you like, its now well documented that he threatened Nancy and Daniel as early as 2003, possibly earlier, possibly later.

That means HE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY HAD MENTAL ISSUES.

That means he should've TAKEN THE F***ING STEROID NEEDLE OUT OF HIS ASS AND SOUGHT HELP THEN!

THEN, and ONLY THEN, if he did that, would he be worthy of some f***ing sympathy.

I seriously do not understand how anyone can see it any other way

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

mdoggdx316 said:

godz said:

And you can play the victim card all you like, its now well documented that he threatened Nancy and Daniel as early as 2003, possibly earlier, possibly later.

That means HE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY HAD MENTAL ISSUES.

That means he should've TAKEN THE F***ING STEROID NEEDLE OUT OF HIS ASS AND SOUGHT HELP THEN!

THEN, and ONLY THEN, if he did that, would he be worthy of some f***ing sympathy.

I seriously do not understand how anyone can see it any other way

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

['Foretold' Joker]

y2ejm said:

What is the latest news?

Nothing new I've seen, of course the toxicology reports won't be available til next week at least.

[willywonka666]

mdoggdx316 said:

godz said:

And you can play the victim card all you like, its now well documented that he threatened Nancy and Daniel as early as 2003, possibly earlier, possibly later.

That means HE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY HAD MENTAL ISSUES.

That means he should've TAKEN THE F***ING STEROID NEEDLE OUT OF HIS ASS AND SOUGHT HELP THEN!

THEN, and ONLY THEN, if he did that, would he be worthy of some f***ing sympathy.

I seriously do not understand how anyone can see it any other way

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

Exactly-I have a feeling he was going to have a hard time coping with eventual retirement

[Bubble Lead]

godz said:

And you can play the victim card all you like, its now well documented that he threatened Nancy and Daniel as early as 2003, possibly earlier, possibly later.

That means HE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY HAD MENTAL ISSUES.

That means he should've TAKEN THE F***ING STEROID NEEDLE OUT OF HIS ASS AND SOUGHT HELP THEN!

THEN, and ONLY THEN, if he did that, would he be worthy of some f***ing sympathy.

I seriously do not understand how anyone can see it any other way

Completely agree with you there.

One thing I find interesting is that it seems as if everyone that knew him is shocked by this; they all say he was a good man. However he threatened his family once before in 2003? I mean, if he was so good why does that not strike anyone that knew him as strange? If someone had intervened then, this could have been avoided.

I know, hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but still. With all the friends of Benoit still stressing that he was a good man, why were none of them shocked by that earlier incident?

[willywonka666]

godz said:

mdoggdx316 said:

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

I think what he's trying to say, is that was not in Benoit's make up. Maybe some people could quit, but Benoit wasn't going to.just like we were all fearing for Angle awhile back-and I think we should still be worried in light of this situation

[tragicheroparade]

godz said:

Yes what Nowinski had to say was interesting, but.....talking about Benoit taking unprotected chairshots?

You know, I can think of another guy who took a few of those in his day, and leads a.....well, moderately succesfull family life.

Ya'll probably never heard of him though.

His name is Mick Foley.

And I don't see any of the Foley kids dead.

You have to think about this in the way that thousands of wrestlers have taken steroids, also, but how many of them have gone out and committed double murder.

Hundreds of wrestlers have probably had serious mental disorders, but none that I can think of have done this.

It's a physiology thing, not a sample size thing .

[Deleted]

godz said:

mdoggdx316 said:

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

Wow, I don't remember any of those words coming out of my mouth. He obviously took them for a reason. Since wrestling is basically what he lived for, I understand why he would do that to be able to continue wrestling the way that he wanted.

[Franchise]

mdoggdx316 said:

godz said:

And you can play the victim card all you like, its now well documented that he threatened Nancy and Daniel as early as 2003, possibly earlier, possibly later.

That means HE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY HAD MENTAL ISSUES.

That means he should've TAKEN THE F***ING STEROID NEEDLE OUT OF HIS ASS AND SOUGHT HELP THEN!

THEN, and ONLY THEN, if he did that, would he be worthy of some f***ing sympathy.

I seriously do not understand how anyone can see it any other way

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

Dude has a point.

[khali]

godz said:

Yes what Nowinski had to say was interesting, but.....talking about Benoit taking unprotected chairshots?

You know, I can think of another guy who took a few of those in his day, and leads a.....well, moderately succesfull family life.

Ya'll probably never heard of him though.

His name is Mick Foley.

And I don't see any of the Foley kids dead.

But there's just as much proof of people not killing their kids, but comitting suicide stemming from concussions. Take Mike Awesome for example.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

willywonka666 said:

godz said:

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

I think what he's trying to say, is that was not in Benoit's makeup-just like we were all fearing for Angle awhile back-and I think we should still be worried in light of this situation

Dude I've never STOPPED worrying about Angle, especially after all his crazy ass interviews.

And hasn't there been marital problems between him and his wife?

He's gonna be under a microscope.

[Fruity Delicious Skittles]

godz said:

mdoggdx316 said:

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

Exactly, Benoit should have realised he couldn't cut it without Steroids and that they weren't having a positive effect on his mind. He was more than financially sound enough to retire how ever it may have hurt him to give up on his passion.

And should Benoit be as reveered as he is in ring considering it seemed he spent quite some time in his career getting help from genetic shortcuts?

[Franchise]

godz said:

mdoggdx316 said:

If "taking the needle out of his ass" meant not being able to do what he loved the way that he wanted to, why would he stop?

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

I sat while Alex Shelley told myself, Scott D'Amore, and many trainees the wonders of steroids.

Wrestlers take steroids. Not all of them, but too many. If a wrestler gets smaller, he doesn't work. That's it.

[willywonka666]

Benoit literally gave his life to wrestling

[Deleted]

skittles said:

godz said:

So you're suggesting its okay to sacrafice your own health, sanity, and family's lives to further your wrestling career?

Or, god, I dont know, actually doing things the way his own screen character CLAIMED to do things, through hard work and determination, not through genetic shortcuts?

Exactly, Benoit should have realised he couldn't cut it without Steroids and that they weren't having a positive effect on his mind. He was more than financially sound enough to retire how ever it may have hurt him to give up on his passion.

And should Benoit be as reveered as he is in ring considering it seemed he spent quite some time in his career getting help from genetic shortcuts?

Just because he did steroids doesn't mean he didn't bust his ass in the ring every single night.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

khali said:

godz said:

Yes what Nowinski had to say was interesting, but.....talking about Benoit taking unprotected chairshots?

You know, I can think of another guy who took a few of those in his day, and leads a.....well, moderately succesfull family life.

Ya'll probably never heard of him though.

His name is Mick Foley.

And I don't see any of the Foley kids dead.

But there's just as much proof of people not killing their kids, but comitting suicide stemming from concussions. Take Mike Awesome for example.

Which is why I'm suggesting Benoit was an evil person to do it the way HE did.

As far as Awesome goes, was that ever actually confirmed as a factor or just speculation? A friend of mine said that Cpl. Kirschner/Leatherface reveals the reason for the suicide on his shoot video but you have to buy it to find out. That souds pretty sleezey to me