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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jun 27, 2007 8:00:38 GMT -5
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Post by Bubble Lead on Jun 27, 2007 8:01:30 GMT -5
I'm manic depressive, and I strongly disagree. Mental illness is not the same as having no moral capacity. If nothing else, you've got the decision whether to seek treatment or not. You've got the decision whether to take stabilizing meds or not. You've got the decision whether to take steroids that exacerbate your condition or not. Manic depression does not just suddenly come out of nowhere. It does not mean you get a free pass to kill your wife and child. I don't think anyone is giving him a free pass. Just trying to make sense of it. Also he can't be completely blamed for what he did, if he was really suffering from such an illness. He can be blamed for not seeking help when he should have, yes. He can be blamed for making a series of very poor decisions. However, I'm not going to hate the man for doing something that was at least somewhat out of his control. One of my favorite musicians, Daniel Johnston, suffers from severe manic-depression. He's done thing like take over the controls of his father's airplane and attempt to crash it in his mania. Should he be totally blamed for that? Is he a terrible person for it? His parents don't seem to think so; hell his father, who had to wrestle controls of the plane away to save both their lives, doesn't seem to think so. Even Chris Benoit's friends don't seem to be totally blaming him for this situation. I just watched a video interview with Booker T. where he says that he has alternated between many emotions, including anger at Benoit. However, he is still going to attend his funeral, and also does not think that Chris was all there when he did this. With so many people saying that Chris was a great person and all, it stands to reason that something was wrong with his mind, something that he should have gotten help to cope with, but unfortunately didn't. Is the same man who openly wept on television over the death of his friend, and seemed legitimately torn up and deep in grief over that, the same man who killed his wife and son? I would venture to say no. However, we just don't know until more details come out about this...and even then we may never know for sure.
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Post by Topher is Human on Jun 27, 2007 8:05:15 GMT -5
I know it's been said over and over again, but I really don't know how to feel about all this. I feel sad, I feel angry, i feel hurt, i feel shocked, i feel pissed off, i feel betrayed, i feel like i could cry, i feel like if i could ever Benoit again that I would punch him for it... it's just so damn much.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jun 27, 2007 8:08:12 GMT -5
I know it's been said over and over again, but I really don't know how to feel about all this. I feel sad, I feel angry, i feel hurt, i feel shocked, i feel pissed off, i feel betrayed, i feel like i could cry, i feel like if i could ever Benoit again that I would punch him for it... it's just so damn much. I feel ya. When I first saw that Benoit and his family were all found dead, I just started....screaming and punched a hole into the wall until my knuckles bled. Then when it became obvious that he killed them? Nothing but intense bitter anger and betrayal. I'll never have any sadness again. For his child and wife yes. But not him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 8:11:00 GMT -5
I'm manic depressive, and I strongly disagree. Mental illness is not the same as having no moral capacity. If nothing else, you've got the decision whether to seek treatment or not. You've got the decision whether to take stabilizing meds or not. You've got the decision whether to take steroids that exacerbate your condition or not. Manic depression does not just suddenly come out of nowhere. It does not mean you get a free pass to kill your wife and child. I don't think anyone is giving him a free pass. Just trying to make sense of it. Also he can't be completely blamed for what he did, if he was really suffering from such an illness. He can be blamed for not seeking help when he should have, yes. He can be blamed for making a series of very poor decisions. However, I'm not going to hate the man for doing something that was at least somewhat out of his control. One of my favorite musicians, Daniel Johnston, suffers from severe manic-depression. He's done thing like take over the controls of his father's airplane and attempt to crash it in his mania. Should he be totally blamed for that? Is he a terrible person for it? His parents don't seem to think so; hell his father, who had to wrestle controls of the plane away to save both their lives, doesn't seem to think so. Even Chris Benoit's friends don't seem to be totally blaming him for this situation. I just watched a video interview with Booker T. where he says that he has alternated between many emotions, including anger at Benoit. However, he is still going to attend his funeral, and also does not think that Chris was all there when he did this. With so many people saying that Chris was a great person and all, it stands to reason that something was wrong with his mind, something that he should have gotten help to cope with, but unfortunately didn't. Is the same man who openly wept on television over the death of his friend, and seemed legitimately torn up and deep in grief over that, the same man who killed his wife and son? I would venture to say no. However, we just don't know until more details come out about this...and even then we may never know for sure. Where did you find that interview?
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Post by Allison Reynolds on Jun 27, 2007 8:11:10 GMT -5
I felt alot of things about this situation, but now I've accepted the fact that one of my most personally adored wrestlers ever might have killed his family. I personally got over it and just wish to move on with normal (or better) WWE programing, and forget/get this thing off my mind already.
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Post by Leaving after 1,600 on Jun 27, 2007 8:11:54 GMT -5
I may catch a lot of heat for this but i feel it is the right thing to do, as a homage to his career tonight we are paying respect to that on The Wrestling Burnout. , i didnt watch Chris Benoits personal life i watched his career. If anyone would like to listen to the show PM me and i'll give you the website.
I wish i had something to say in here, but as a man who has met Benoit on quite a few occasions and got to wrestle him at a seminar i am lost for words. I don't know if i'll be ready to talk about it tonight, next week or ever, it hurt me a lot when i heard this news, and the blow has not been softened yet with all the news and people jumping to conclussions as soon as he died. Am i the only holding out hope that something will come in saying he didnt do it as far fetched as that is at this point. We'll always know when and where, but the question as to why may never be answered.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jun 27, 2007 8:12:02 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler of all time, but if I found out he killed his family, I'd throw out every DVD of his I own and not think twice about it.
To me, there's no 'well he killed his family, but he sure could fake fight well'.
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Post by Chilly McFreeze on Jun 27, 2007 8:14:57 GMT -5
I just want to respond to one thing towards the end of the last thread:
I believe it's been reported that Benoit's son suffered from some sort of disease that stunted his growth, so the HGH may have been prescribed treatment rather than abuse... that's just what I've read, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by Topher is Human on Jun 27, 2007 8:15:08 GMT -5
Someone had something in their sig about what's more important, a live of servitude or one moment of cowardice... I would like to think of Benoit as just a phenominal athlete, but the main reason I always looked up to him since my youth was because he seemed as a happy-go-luck family guy, a man who loved his job, family and his life, I've lost all of that now, so I just can't bring myself to ever think of Benoit in the same light again...
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
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Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jun 27, 2007 8:16:37 GMT -5
I just want to respond to one thing towards the end of the last thread: I believe it's been reported that Benoit's son suffered from some sort of disease that stunted his growth, so the HGH may have been prescribed treatment rather than abuse... that's just what I've read, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Ah okay, yes I've read that he suffered from Fragile X but I didn't realize the HGH would've been linked to this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 8:18:47 GMT -5
Someone had something in their sig about what's more important, a live of servitude or one moment of cowardice... I would like to think of Benoit as just a phenominal athlete, but the main reason I always looked up to him since my youth was because he seemed as a happy-go-luck family guy, a man who loved his job, family and his life, I've lost all of that now, so I just can't bring myself to ever think of Benoit in the same light again... I know what you mean, but I've been taking this very hard. I seriously looked up to Benoit as a hero of mine because of how I thought he was as a person. I wanted to be like that when I grew up. I think that's why I'm having trouble branding him as a "murderer". I keep hoping that they will reveal something about mental illness or something that gives reason as to why he would do something like this. I'm in major denial.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Jun 27, 2007 8:20:17 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is giving him a free pass. Just trying to make sense of it. Also he can't be completely blamed for what he did, if he was really suffering from such an illness. He can be blamed for not seeking help when he should have, yes. He can be blamed for making a series of very poor decisions. However, I'm not going to hate the man for doing something that was at least somewhat out of his control. One of my favorite musicians, Daniel Johnston, suffers from severe manic-depression. He's done thing like take over the controls of his father's airplane and attempt to crash it in his mania. Should he be totally blamed for that? Is he a terrible person for it? His parents don't seem to think so; hell his father, who had to wrestle controls of the plane away to save both their lives, doesn't seem to think so. Even Chris Benoit's friends don't seem to be totally blaming him for this situation. I just watched a video interview with Booker T. where he says that he has alternated between many emotions, including anger at Benoit. However, he is still going to attend his funeral, and also does not think that Chris was all there when he did this. With so many people saying that Chris was a great person and all, it stands to reason that something was wrong with his mind, something that he should have gotten help to cope with, but unfortunately didn't. Is the same man who openly wept on television over the death of his friend, and seemed legitimately torn up and deep in grief over that, the same man who killed his wife and son? I would venture to say no. However, we just don't know until more details come out about this...and even then we may never know for sure. Where did you find that interview? Here is the Booker T Interview from local news www.khou.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=154648
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Post by Topher is Human on Jun 27, 2007 8:24:30 GMT -5
Someone had something in their sig about what's more important, a live of servitude or one moment of cowardice... I would like to think of Benoit as just a phenominal athlete, but the main reason I always looked up to him since my youth was because he seemed as a happy-go-luck family guy, a man who loved his job, family and his life, I've lost all of that now, so I just can't bring myself to ever think of Benoit in the same light again... I know what you mean, but I've been taking this very hard. I seriously looked up to Benoit as a hero of mine because of how I thought he was as a person. I wanted to be like that when I grew up. I think that's why I'm having trouble branding him as a "murderer". I keep hoping that they will reveal something about mental illness or something that gives reason as to why he would do something like this. I'm in major denial. That's exactly the same as my case, hell even up until the other day, I wanted to grow up to just like Benoit for well over 10 years now. Not because of wrestling, but he seemed like the ultimate role model, now I've lost all of that, it's not that I don't believe it's true, it's that I don't want to accept it's true.
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Post by Old School Heel mark4Morishima on Jun 27, 2007 8:26:31 GMT -5
Also he can't be completely blamed for what he did, if he was really suffering from such an illness. He can be blamed for not seeking help when he should have, yes. He can be blamed for making a series of very poor decisions. However, I'm not going to hate the man for doing something that was at least somewhat out of his control. One of my favorite musicians, Daniel Johnston, suffers from severe manic-depression. He's done thing like take over the controls of his father's airplane and attempt to crash it in his mania. Should he be totally blamed for that? Is he a terrible person for it? His parents don't seem to think so; hell his father, who had to wrestle controls of the plane away to save both their lives, doesn't seem to think so. Chris Benoit was 40 years old. He had a known history of violent episodes. He had almost lost his family at least once because of those episodes. He willingly took medications known to exacerbate violent outbursts. Even if he could not be held morally responsible for his actions at the time, his mind was a loaded gun waiting to go off, and he can be held responsible for not disarming it. Daniel Johnston, by contrast, was in his 20's at the time of the plane incident. He was hospitalized after it and is on medication. Johnston is kind of a great example of how to get by with a mental illness without sacrificing what makes you special.
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Post by scottyno on Jun 27, 2007 8:37:16 GMT -5
I don't have a source confirming this, but they were talking about it on my local sports radio. Apparently Chris Nowinski has given his thoughts, and brought up the fact that Benoit was one of few wrestlers who was willing to take stiff chair shots to the back of the head, and he believes that brain damage may have played a role in this weekends incidents. Apparently Nowinski contacted the coroner for Benoit and asked him to do a test for brain damage, but so far the coroner has not done one (not sure who not)
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Post by The Peoples Elbow on Jun 27, 2007 8:40:32 GMT -5
My fiancee and I were both shocked when we heard the news on Monday. We watched RAW and were upset that it had happened. But when we found out all the details yesterday, our feelings turned to anger and confusion towards Benoit. He really seemed like he was above anything like that. I don't mean to offend anyone, but to kill your spouse is bad enough...to take the life of your own child is completely unforgivable. I don't really care what the circumstances were. I would jump off a cliff without a parachute before I did anything as heinous as that. Benoit was known as quiet outside the wrestling ring. I wonder how many years he was battling demons in his mind...
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Post by skillz on Jun 27, 2007 8:46:52 GMT -5
I know people who spent so much of their emotions and money on Benoit over the years might try to spin this a bit, but there's really no defending it. Some are saying that he was a great man for 40 years and just had a bad weekend, but how the heck do we know what kind of man he was? None of us knew him personally. The character and the man (in every case) are not the same.
Maybe this isn't hitting me hard (or hitting me at all) because I never liked Benoit as a wrestler. So it's easy for me to tell him to rot in hell for what he did to his wife and especially to his son. However, like has been said already by posters, a wrestler's on-screen character and talent doesn't dictate what kind of human being he is. Please keep that in mind moving forward.
On a personal note, I do find it a bit insulting that people still have RIP Benoit signatures here. Say what you want about respecting his wrestling career, but he is not the one who is deserving of our sympathy. The two people he killed are, especially the child.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 8:49:38 GMT -5
I know people who spent so much of their emotions and money on Benoit over the years might try to spin this a bit, but there's really no defending it. Some are saying that he was a great man for 40 years and just had a bad weekend, but how the heck do we know what kind of man he was? None of us knew him personally. The character and the man (in every case) are not the same. Maybe this isn't hitting me hard (or hitting me at all) because I never liked Benoit as a wrestler. So it's easy for me to tell him to rot in hell for what he did to his wife and especially to his son. However, like has been said already by posters, a wrestler's on-screen character and talent doesn't dictate what kind of human being he is. Please keep that in mind moving forward. On a personal note, I do find it a bit insulting that people still have RIP Benoit signatures here. Say what you want about respecting his wrestling career, but he is not the one who is deserving of our sympathy. The two people he killed are, especially the child. Did you get the PM from that mod? Don't start another argument over this crap. If people want to put R.I.P. in their sig, then leave them alone.
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Jun 27, 2007 8:49:55 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler of all time, but if I found out he killed his family, I'd throw out every DVD of his I own and not think twice about it. To me, there's no 'well he killed his family, but he sure could fake fight well'. Exactly. I may have loved Benoit before this week began. And yeah, he was a great wrestler. One of the greatest. But there's no going back from what he did. I'm not separating anything -- Chris Benoit is a murderer first and foremost.
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