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Post by Noffin on Jun 27, 2007 9:15:28 GMT -5
Is there any dvd's with benoit featured on the cover? I was just wondrering if WWE wil remove his image and his match? Understandably they have removed all merchandise from the wweshop.com and no mention of his matches on the dvd reviews but despite the circumstances they can't just pretend he's not there...he's played a key role in PPV's for the past 8 years Apparently they're not selling Backlash 2004 on DVD anymore, which had him on the cover. On Shopzone it states that The Title Match at Wrestlemania is Shawn Michaels vs Triple H.....i just don't see the point in that because Benoit won you can't say he's not there.... it just seems like a problem thats either gonna cause major merchandise headache by removing all merch with him in or look silly by saying "shhhhh" he's not really there....
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Matt Rogers
King Koopa
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Omae wa mo shindeiru.
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Post by Matt Rogers on Jun 27, 2007 9:15:50 GMT -5
I'm not trying to burn anyone, I'm like everyone else, full of a lot of different emotions about everything...Benoit was my childhood hero, and now...well it'd be like being a fan of Hitler's paintings... That's just it for me now, I loved Benoit as a wrestler and looked up to him as a man, but now all I can ever do is appreciate the matches he was in, but I feel like I can never appreciate Benoit himself again.
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Post by Noffin on Jun 27, 2007 9:18:46 GMT -5
He's all over that backlash 2004 cover isn't he, just seen it now
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Post by willywonka666 on Jun 27, 2007 9:19:21 GMT -5
From PWTorch, some commentary by Wife Beater Steve Austin's ex: Steve Austin's ex-wife, Debra Marhsall, commented on the Benoit Family Tragedy in a story published by My Fox TV in Colorado: Regarding domestic abuse and drugs in pro wrestling, she said: "The domestic and drug abuse is out of hand in the WWE and something needs to be done about it." Regarding the pattern of deaths in pro wrestling, she said: "In the last ten years, 60 wrestlers under age 45 have died... all in the prime of their lives. Big strong men, who somehow die with little or no investigation of the organization that encourages performers to use muscle-enhancing drugs." The article concludes: Ms. Williams claims she and Nancy Benoit's stories are very similar. Both sought help from law enforcement because of domestic abuse. In 2003, Benoit sought a divorce from Chris Benoit saying he physically abused her, she also asked the courts for a restraining order. Williams did the same thing on the third occasion when she says she was attacked by "Stone Cold." Williams says, like Benoit, Austin all but forced her to write a letter to authorities saying her complaint was a mistake. But in Williams's case, the courts put Austin on probation for a year. In return, Ms. Williams was placed under a gag order, forcing her to remain silent about the "dark side" of professional wrestling, filled with drugs, booze, and domestic abuse. "If only I had spoken up sooner, maybe Nancy and her little boy would be alive today... that's why I'm going public now, something has to change!" In the TV report, she said: -"Everyone thought we had this wonderful life, had this big house, worked together." -"Steroids! He (Steve Austin) was doing steroids. I saw him do it, so I know he did it." -"I have lived it. I have lived domestic abuse. I don't even want to think about what Nancy went through." -"Why kill your wife, who's innocent, and why kill your seven year old, a little child. That's why I have to speak up. I've been silent for too many years." She said a gag order prevented her from talking about it her case with Austiin for a year. -"I know what it feels like to have someone really, really big on top of you hitting you." -"I had him arrested for hitting me." -"I have a huge voice being that I was a wrestler, in it, abused, and married to the top guy. I'm glad I'm alive." And again, I say, this ain't your story, Debra. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. I'm all for sympathizing with battered women (I've seen the horrors first hand), but there is a time and a place, and this ain't it. Jed Shaffer ~Amazing how many people will hitch their wagon to a tragedy. Well, really the E is not gonna let their wrestlers talk, and Debra is not associated with them, and apparantly isn't worried about being associated with them anymore, she was around Chris and Nancy in WCW during her run with the Horsemen. they're just tying the Austin abuse in with this, which sux, but I'm not surprised
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hotrod
Don Corleone
No caption needed
Posts: 1,281
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Post by hotrod on Jun 27, 2007 9:19:49 GMT -5
I'm not trying to burn anyone, I'm like everyone else, full of a lot of different emotions about everything...Benoit was my childhood hero, and now...well it'd be like being a fan of Hitler's paintings... That's just it for me now, I loved Benoit as a wrestler and looked up to him as a man, but now all I can ever do is appreciate the matches he was in, but I feel like I can never appreciate Benoit himself again. This is the most awkward feeling that i have ever experienced, How would people feel if their favorite athelete whoever it may be commited something as terrible as this, i just really don't know what i should think or feel. I am so confused by this whole situation.
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Matt Rogers
King Koopa
member is currently offline <stalking Emma Watson>
Omae wa mo shindeiru.
Posts: 11,869
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Post by Matt Rogers on Jun 27, 2007 9:20:02 GMT -5
He's all over that backlash 2004 cover isn't he, just seen it now Yeah, I can't blame them for dropping it, really.
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Matt Rogers
King Koopa
member is currently offline <stalking Emma Watson>
Omae wa mo shindeiru.
Posts: 11,869
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Post by Matt Rogers on Jun 27, 2007 9:21:29 GMT -5
That's just it for me now, I loved Benoit as a wrestler and looked up to him as a man, but now all I can ever do is appreciate the matches he was in, but I feel like I can never appreciate Benoit himself again. This is the most awkward feeling that i have ever experienced, How would people feel if their favorite athelete whoever it may be commited something as terrible as this, i just really don't know what i should think or feel. I am so confused by this whole situation. That's exactly what I mean, I see clips of the guy, and see him on games and stuff, and think how great he was, but now it's like there are so many things telling me that he wasn't great at all, and that that stuff meant nothing in comparison to what he's done now. It's so conflicting inside me.
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Post by Joe Newberry on Jun 27, 2007 9:23:44 GMT -5
I have this eerie feeling that we've subtly proven what people often say about us as wrestling fans, that we're all primarily young misogynistic males. I've read more than 100 pages worth of posts since Monday, and every so often through them someone has mentioned offhand it wouldn't have been so bad if he'd just killed Nancy or they'd have understood it better if she had been cheating on him or was leaving him or if she had killed Daniel and he murdered her in retaliation. Usually, that's followed up by saying what was reprehensible was that he killed his child. Honestly, I don't find it any more acceptable for someone to beat or kill a woman. Someone yesterday mentioned that they continued to enjoy Steve Austin's work after he beat Debra, but it wouldn't be the same with Benoit because of Daniel. After what happened with Austin, I felt a certain amount of uneasiness watching him. As a matter of fact, when I saw Austin's tribute to Benoit it made me think about his own domestic abuse case. I don't like stereotypes, but there is a hint here to the idea that we really do have problems coping with strong women or women not cast as sex objects or women not portrayed as evil basket case child-murderers. When we can create degrees of justification between hurting an innocent woman and an innocent child, it speaks to something in many of us that may be wrong. I don't even deny that I myself felt more accepting of that initial report about Nancy murdering Daniel and Benoit coming home and killing her in a rage. That seemed more reasonable, that seemed more right, that she was a Susan Smith type mom and Benoit the avenging, grief stricken father, who after what happened couldn't cope with a world not including his son and wife. But the facts just don't add up that way. Nancy was a victim of a crime, and it's wrong to even think about blaming her for this or downplay her death as the least offensive because she wasn't a beloved technical wrestler and she wasn't a little boy. She might not have been anyone's hero, but she was a child's mother and someone's daughter, sister, ex-wife, friend, etc.
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Parrish
El Dandy
Banana Man Wouldn't Book That!!!
Posts: 8,729
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Post by Parrish on Jun 27, 2007 9:30:33 GMT -5
Debra is just looking to get her old wrinkled ass in the news again
And Chris Nowinski is on his Concussion tour where he is preaching about concussions so it doesn't surprise me that he is gonna try to relate this to head injuries.
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Post by skillz on Jun 27, 2007 9:31:22 GMT -5
We aren't trying to tribute the man who killed his family and himself. We are trying to give tribute to the wrestler and what he did in the ring. You are entitled to do that. I just don't think his wrestling career negates what he did here. Would you show sympathy to a great financial analyst if he killed his wife and kid? Ultimately, wrestling was Benoit's job. He played a character on television. That's it. Some found him entertaining, others (like me) didn't care for him. Either way, it was just a role he played for income. It shouldn't overshadow what he did to his family. Pay tribute to Nancy and Daniel. They were the victims here, not Chris.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Jun 27, 2007 9:31:34 GMT -5
Yeah, if Benoit killed his wife just because of something she did, I'd have no sympathy for the man.
The only reason I do now is because there is evidence that he had mental problems, which as someone who has coped with mental problems within his family, I can understand and sympathize with.
My father had mental problems too, but eventually he got help and is a much better and stronger person for it now. I have a great relationship with my dad now, despite the things he did, because he has made peace with himself and apologized. I also understand that the things he did were not completely under his control. He was under the influence of many things, most of all his own sick mind at the time.
Granted my father never went as far as Benoit did, but who knows how bad Benoit mind really was.
Of course, this doesn't excuse Benoit; my father got help. Benoit never did. So for that, Benoit should not be forgiven. I do not forgive Chris Benoit for what he did but it's not my place to forgive him either. That lies with his remaining family and friends.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 9:32:58 GMT -5
We aren't trying to tribute the man who killed his family and himself. We are trying to give tribute to the wrestler and what he did in the ring. You are entitled to do that. I just don't think his wrestling career negates what he did here. Would you show sympathy to a great financial analyst if he killed his wife and kid? Ultimately, wrestling was Benoit's job. He played a character on television. That's it. Some found him entertaining, others (like me) didn't care for him. Either way, it was just a role he played for income. It shouldn't overshadow what he did to his family. Pay tribute to Nancy and Daniel. They were the victims here, not Chris. Whatever. You do what you want.
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Post by willywonka666 on Jun 27, 2007 9:34:49 GMT -5
Yeah, if Benoit killed his wife just because of something she did, I'd have no sympathy for the man. The only reason I do now is because there is evidence that he had mental problems, which as someone who has coped with mental problems within his family, I can understand and sympathize with. My father had mental problems too, but eventually he got help and is a much better and stronger person for it now. I have a great relationship with my dad now, despite the things he did, because he has made peace with himself and apologized. I also understand that the things he did were not completely under his control. He was under the influence of many things, most of all his own sick mind at the time. Granted my father never went as far as Benoit did, but who knows how bad Benoit mind really was. Of course, this doesn't excuse Benoit; my father got help. Benoit never did. So for that, Benoit should not be forgiven. I do not forgive Chris Benoit for what he did but it's not my place to forgive him either. That lies with his remaining family and friends. I understand where you're coming from, but if Benoit did in fact have mental problems and didn't seek help, well most people don't seek help for themselves until it's way too late, whether its mental, or it's a disease, people are like that
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Post by Chilly McFreeze on Jun 27, 2007 9:38:52 GMT -5
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Post by willywonka666 on Jun 27, 2007 9:40:57 GMT -5
There's something to his father's behavior, im not blaming him, but his seriousness, and as you used the word "stoic"
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Post by Fruity Delicious Skittles on Jun 27, 2007 9:42:09 GMT -5
I haven't really posted since everything about Benoit being responsible came out. When I first heard off the news it was one of the possibilities I considered but I convinced myself that it wouldn't be the case. The fact that his family were found with him just seemed very suspicious.
My WORST fears were confirmed.
Personally, I have lost all respect I once had for Chris Benoit. I realise he was a very good professional wrestler but I will never be able to watch any old Benoit matches again because what he did will always be there.
He commited the most unpardonable of all acts. It truly is deplorable. It is enexcusable no matter how anyone tries to scoot round the Issue. The man murdered his own family and didn't even have the guts to face the consequences.
If he was so depressed he could have taken his own life and not the innocent one's of his families. If it was Steroids, it was he who decided to take them. If it was the rigours of the schedule that caused him to take Steroids, he was financially sound enough to retire or take an agents role. He is responsable for this haneous act and he should be held fully accountable.
What disgusts me is how he did it. The details are to gruesome to repeat.
No one really knew Chris Benoit. He may have appeared as a nice caring, family-man who was a hero to many. But obviously that wasn't the case because nice caring, family-men who are hero's don't commit acts of such cowardice.
Benoit showed no mercy to his family so why should anyone show any mercy to his legacy or memory.
I fully support WWE in how they have dealt with the manner. Any mention of Benoit should be ignored. Vince Mcmahon deserves praise and much kudos for how he has dealt with this whole sorry mess.
All I can hope is that Nancy and Daniel Benoit rest in peace.
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Post by Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers on Jun 27, 2007 9:43:54 GMT -5
Call me old fashioned, but a guy who kills his wife and child, then hangs himself to avoid the consequences isn't someone I'm going to be putting up a tribute for any time soon. If you want to feel sympathy for him, be my guest. We obviously differ in opinion. Most people would disagree with you. Murder tends to have that effect. I always believed that suicide does NOT warrant sympathy. No matter the reason simply because it is smurfing selfish. Nothing is worth it, it's the cowards way out, it hurts ALOT more people other than the person killing themselves and finally they put it among themselves and had full control over it. So imagine how I picture Benoit now after not only killing himself, but also taking 2 innocent souls with him (one being his 7 year old son) Ugh. I hate when people do this. Suicide is rarely cowardice. People who say this are always ones who have never been there. Just repeating a tired cliche about something they don't understand. You can't possibly understand what goes through the mind of a severely depressed person. Explaining it to someone who's never been there is like trying to explain color to a blind man. But let me tell you, it's as close to hell on earth as you're gonna get. You talk about the pain the survivors have of losing a loved one... What about the sufferers themselves who have pain just as bad, but theirs never gets better? Never relents? I know, take medicine right? It may surprise you to know that anti-depressants are only effective on about 70% of depression sufferers. What do you do when your doctor reluctantly tells you he really doesn't know what to do because you have one of those tough cases that isn't responding to drugs? Is it cowardice to consider ending the pain instead of going through mental and emotional torture for an indefinite period of time? I say no. Don't get me wrong. I'm not endorsing suicide, and if anyone reading is in that horrible position, I suggest finding a better specialist and start grabbing at clinical straws. It worked for me, and it's worked for a lot of other people. Anyway, I'm not endorsing it... but I understand it. And I find it disgusting to call people who already went through so much "cowards" because they took the only way they saw to end the pain. A person's life is their own, and they don't 'owe' it to anyone to continue it if they're in a great deal of pain and don't have much hope of treatment.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jun 27, 2007 9:43:58 GMT -5
He's all over that backlash 2004 cover isn't he, just seen it now Yeah, I can't blame them for dropping it, really. Seriously, I mean how do you put it on the cover, Blank defended the World Title against HBK and HHH? Also, didn't they do something where they deemed April 18th, Chris Benoit Day in Montreal or Edmonton?
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Post by MGH on Jun 27, 2007 9:44:01 GMT -5
I don't know if it was in that large post, but PWI wrote what Kevin Sullivan thought abou this.
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Brain Of F'n J
Hank Scorpio
Not that cool enough to have one of these....wait.
We Discodians must stick apart.
Posts: 6,890
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Post by Brain Of F'n J on Jun 27, 2007 9:46:04 GMT -5
I have this eerie feeling that we've subtly proven what people often say about us as wrestling fans, that we're all primarily young misogynistic males. I've read more than 100 pages worth of posts since Monday, and every so often through them someone has mentioned offhand it wouldn't have been so bad if he'd just killed Nancy or they'd have understood it better if she had been cheating on him or was leaving him or if she had killed Daniel and he murdered her in retaliation. Usually, that's followed up by saying what was reprehensible was that he killed his child. Honestly, I don't find it any more acceptable for someone to beat or kill a woman. Someone yesterday mentioned that they continued to enjoy Steve Austin's work after he beat Debra, but it wouldn't be the same with Benoit because of Daniel. After what happened with Austin, I felt a certain amount of uneasiness watching him. As a matter of fact, when I saw Austin's tribute to Benoit it made me think about his own domestic abuse case. I don't like stereotypes, but there is a hint here to the idea that we really do have problems coping with strong women or women not cast as sex objects or women not portrayed as evil basket case child-murderers. When we can create degrees of justification between hurting an innocent woman and an innocent child, it speaks to something in many of us that may be wrong. I don't even deny that I myself felt more accepting of that initial report about Nancy murdering Daniel and Benoit coming home and killing her in a rage. That seemed more reasonable, that seemed more right, that she was a Susan Smith type mom and Benoit the avenging, grief stricken father, who after what happened couldn't cope with a world not including his son and wife. But the facts just don't add up that way. Nancy was a victim of a crime, and it's wrong to even think about blaming her for this or downplay her death as the least offensive because she wasn't a beloved technical wrestler and she wasn't a little boy. She might not have been anyone's hero, but she was a child's mother and someone's daughter, sister, ex-wife, friend, etc. I don't speak for everyone, but I did feel the "if he'd just killed Nancy ..." feelings. And it's not out of misogyny or condoning of spousal abuse (I saw the damage of that first-hand for a number of years). My feelings were rooted in two-fold reasons: 1) A husband/wife is not your own blood, your own creation. Being a father (of sons, no less), it got to me even moreso. 2) Disregarding the marital bond ... adults kill adults all the time. Whether it's for freedom, or for sneakers ... adults kill adults. It's, in a sick way, almost routine. Killing a child, especially one so young, seems to illogical, unnecessary and unfathomable. For me, I guess, you could say, if he'd killed Nancy, I woulda been pissed. He would've been a bastard ... but a typical bastard. The run of the mill jerk you see on the news every week. Killing the kid? Now he's moved into special territory, a place few go. Jed Shaffer ~Not trying to fan flames here. Just offering a perspective.
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