Debra is low

[Andrew is Good]

skillz said:

skittles said:

Shawn Michaels may have been a prick in the past, but he didn't murder his family so grouping him with Benoit is harsh.

I didn't mean to imply Michaels has murdered anyone (or done anything close to that), just that his backstage behavior is largely ignored because of his workrate, while "inferior" wrestlers with backstage issues are being bashed endlessly for it. Just like people couldn't believe Benoit did what he did because of his in-ring ability, and are still celebrating him because of it. Point being: "workrate" is being used to judge the actions of human beings, which is absurd.

If Warrior had killed someone, no one would be celebrating his career. If Hogan had beaten his wife, no one would be blasting his wife for airing it out on television. With good reason. But since it's Austin and Benoit, two guys highly respected for their in-ring ability, things seemed to be skewed purposely. I just don't understand it. It's a jaded way of looking at things.

I agree to some extent. I mean, I was the one spearheading the "Paul London is an idiot" campaign back when he put on a goofy smile and put it out of place, and the idea that he was yelled was said to be "smark bait" or not real because, my god, it's Paul London. He can't do anything wrong because he's a great wrestler. Same with CM Punk, who freely admits there is no filter between his brain and his mouth, and was said to be disrespectful to guys like Arn Anderson and Finlay. It was probably blown out of proportion and there are probably no lasting issues, but the fact that CM Punk may've had a flaw made people go crazy.

However, Shawn Michaels, while praised for his wrestling ability (not to mention his impact on the buisness in helping get smaller guys over) usually does get some attacks for his past actions. I think one reason is because his actions haven't been as bad, or aren't as talked about as they used to be, so I think the fact that he may've changed is the reason it doesn't get talked about as much, as there haven't been many stories like in the past.

Haha, but then again, I freely admit to being a big Michaels mark, and am somewhat biased towards him. However, I don't agree at all with a lot of his actions that he did in the past, a lot which were no doubt childish, and probably Shawn himself would likely be ashamed of.

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

andrewisgood said:

skillz said:

I didn't mean to imply Michaels has murdered anyone (or done anything close to that), just that his backstage behavior is largely ignored because of his workrate, while "inferior" wrestlers with backstage issues are being bashed endlessly for it. Just like people couldn't believe Benoit did what he did because of his in-ring ability, and are still celebrating him because of it. Point being: "workrate" is being used to judge the actions of human beings, which is absurd.

If Warrior had killed someone, no one would be celebrating his career. If Hogan had beaten his wife, no one would be blasting his wife for airing it out on television. With good reason. But since it's Austin and Benoit, two guys highly respected for their in-ring ability, things seemed to be skewed purposely. I just don't understand it. It's a jaded way of looking at things.

I agree to some extent. I mean, I was the one spearheading the "Paul London is an idiot" campaign back when he put on a goofy smile and put it out of place, and the idea that he was yelled was said to be "smark bait" or not real because, my god, it's Paul London. He can't do anything wrong because he's a great wrestler. Same with CM Punk, who freely admits there is no filter between his brain and his mouth, and was said to be disrespectful to guys like Arn Anderson and Finlay. It was probably blown out of proportion and there are probably no lasting issues, but the fact that CM Punk may've had a flaw made people go crazy.

And because you brought it up.

With Paul London, you were repeatedly calling him an idiot over an incident which may or may not have been scripted, after an internet wrestling news site claimed he was in trouble for it. We weren't defending him. You were just completely wrong to jump to such an outrageous conclusion.



To others (This is a serious question):

What did you think of the movie The Pianist?

[Glitch]

dmargul said:

cenamark21 said:

Exactly. How would the Virginia tech families feel if people praised Cho because he was a great writer?

It's not about praising the person, it's about their work.

Once you create, your work becomes a separate entity entirely.

And given benoit's sanity gradually deteriorating, I can't really look at the pegasus kid or ecw benoit as the same man who commited murder. I doubt during war games he was thinking "if my wife leaves me I will kill her".I seperate him from OJ in that sense.

[Blindkarevik]

All this really is, is another "You're wrong for your opinion" thread.

Some people will still enjoy Benoit's matches.
Some people will not.

To each his own.

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

blindheartagram said:

All this really is, is another "You're wrong for your opinion" thread.

Some people will still enjoy Benoit's matches.
Some people will not.

To each his own.

Yay conversation killing. Why even have a thread when we can just say "we have different opinions so we shouldn't share them" at the beginning?

You'll find in here that people are trying to EXPLAIN why they feel the way they do.

[Andrew is Good]

dmargul said:

andrewisgood said:

I agree to some extent. I mean, I was the one spearheading the "Paul London is an idiot" campaign back when he put on a goofy smile and put it out of place, and the idea that he was yelled was said to be "smark bait" or not real because, my god, it's Paul London. He can't do anything wrong because he's a great wrestler. Same with CM Punk, who freely admits there is no filter between his brain and his mouth, and was said to be disrespectful to guys like Arn Anderson and Finlay. It was probably blown out of proportion and there are probably no lasting issues, but the fact that CM Punk may've had a flaw made people go crazy.

And because you brought it up.

With Paul London, you were repeatedly calling him an idiot over an incident which may or may not have been scripted, after an internet wrestling news site claimed he was in trouble for it. We weren't defending him. You were just completely wrong to jump to such an outrageous conclusion.



To others (This is a serious question):

What did you think of the movie The Pianist?

They weren't outrageous though, based on the seriousness of the angle, and where London was on the card wouldn't warrant him doing that. But I guess I don't want to get back into this argument.

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

andrewisgood said:

dmargul said:

And because you brought it up.

With Paul London, you were repeatedly calling him an idiot over an incident which may or may not have been scripted, after an internet wrestling news site claimed he was in trouble for it. We weren't defending him. You were just completely wrong to jump to such an outrageous conclusion.



To others (This is a serious question):

What did you think of the movie The Pianist?

They weren't outrageous though, based on the seriousness of the angle, and where London was on the card wouldn't warrant him doing that. But I guess I don't want to get back into this argument.

It may not really add up, this is true, but that doesn't instantly prove he was not supposed to do it.

[Fandjango Unchained]

My two cents.

Austin beat his wife, and doesn't deserve to be defended in any way, no matter how great you think he is, or how big a mark you are for him.

There's a difference between being a whiny politicking idiot (HBK) than physically beating up another human being who is considerably weaker than you...

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

So, what did everyone think of The Pianist? Or Rosemary's Baby?

[JMA]

dmargul said:

So, what did everyone think of The Pianist? Or Rosemary's Baby?

I never saw The Pianist. I did like Rosemary's Baby.

Hm. Funny that a movie directed by Roman Polanski would be brought up.

[Hiroshi Hase]

dmargul said:

So, what did everyone think of The Pianist? Or Rosemary's Baby?

Never saw those movies, is there someone in those films who killed their families or something?

[Fandjango Unchained]

yjc1019 said:

dmargul said:

So, what did everyone think of The Pianist? Or Rosemary's Baby?

Never saw those movies, is there someone in those films who killed their families or something?

Pianist: Jewish man plays piano so well that Nazi officer lets him live

RB: A woman named Rosemary is raped by the devil...

So I don't get the relevance to this thread...

[Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You]

The Pianist and Rosemary's Baby, two critically acclaimed movies, were directed by Roman Polanski, who plead guilty to raping a thirteen year old girl.

But his movies never hurt anyone.

[Hiroshi Hase]

dmargul said:

The Pianist and Rosemary's Baby, two critically acclaimed movies, were directed by Roman Polanski, who plead guilty to raping a thirteen year old girl.

But his movies never hurt anyone.

The movies didn't, but he did evidently from what you're telling me. Still doesn't change my view on Benoit or anyone else who commits such horrific acts.

Surprising that people would celebrate him, but whatever.

[thesunbeast]

drtompki said:

She sort of has ruined her own credibility on this issue by her behavior and some of the dumb things she has said. The sad thing is, I have no doubt at all that she got beat. However, instead of using this forum that has been presented to her to make a difference, she has made it impossible to take her too seriously because she sounds like she is out for WWE blood.

Oh, and the comment about Austin legally changing his name made her sound like a complete idiot. "He even legally changed his name to Steve Austin! He is so delusional that he really thinks he is Steve Austin!" Of course! That must be it! The fact that if he did not do that he might not be able to own the rights to the professional name that he has used for over 2 decades has nothing to do with it! He just thinks he is his wrestling character!

I agree.

Thing is though, that when Warrior changes his name, all of a sudded he's insane. Not that he isn't insane, because I'm sure that if we analyzed the situation more, we'd probably conclude that he is insane, but we sure do jump the gun on this one about the name change.

I agree that debra is pretty low on this, as she seems to have been sverely affected by Austins abuse. I think that as bad as that was, that debra isn't understanding that what happened with Benoit was alot worse that demestic abuse, and Pro Wrestling may be a small factor, at most.

I'm I just protecting pro wrestling? Your damn right I am, If pro wrestling is wrongfully accussed of being the reason for things like THIS (benoit), which most of humanity cant even understand including pro wrestlers or all that is accociated with pro wrestling, then pro wrestling should, and will, get all the back up and protecting it needs, and rightfully so.

Here's the cold hard truth, that everyone is asking and is pretending not to understand.

Q: Why is it that benoit's doctor gets raided but anna nicole's doctor does not?

A: Non wrestling fans like anna nicole better than pro wrestling, and therefore, have more incentive to connect benoit's doctor's abuse of his practice to pro wrestling more so than anna nicole's doctor's abuse of his practice to himself only. Think about it.

Q: Why is it, that immediately after the prees conference is over, that the first 3 questions are "did you find steroids?!" But when a cop kills his 9 month pregnant girlfiend, or when a kid shoots up Virginia Tech, that no one even mentions steroids?

A: Because steroids aren't the direct cause of murder, double murder, suicide, or double murder-suicide. But benoit has a muscular physique, and he's a wrestler, so steroids must now be a contributor.

note: Yes, 65 guys have died in the last 20 years, form accidental drug overdoses in most cases. How many of them murdered a stranger? How many of them murdered their family? How many of them were nice and respected people and then murdered their son and wife?

Q: Why is it that if steroids are found in benoit's system, that everyone will lower their surches for other reasons to the tragedy down alot of notches and concentrate on eliminating steroids from wrestling, or better yet, just try to punush wrestling?

A: Because they (investigators, media, feds, ect..) would have fulfilled their cause and purpose, which is to either punish wrestling (vince mcmahon) or get rid of steroids, not to really find the truth to the benoit tragedy.

[Tiger Millionaire]

How many signatures on NFL boards contain a picture of O.J. Simpson? Find me one, and I'll find you five on here that show Chris Benoit

[Brick Killed a Guy]

taxcollector said:

dmargul said:

It's not about praising the person, it's about their work.

Once you create, your work becomes a separate entity entirely.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread topic, but I do agree with this statement.

The main reason is, once you start thinking it's wrong to not appreciate someone's work for reasons related to the person, when does it end? Fact is, a lot of people have done some f***ed up s***. If you can't appreciate the work of someone who has done wrong, you might not be left with much work to appreciate at all.

I agree, but it depends on the level of f'ed up sh*t that person has done.

For example, under a blanket argument I could bash The Beatles' music because they did drugs (same goes for many other artists).

I could bash Babe Ruth's career because he was a drunk and a womanizer.

Hell, if by some grace of God, Paris Hilton went on to become the next Mother Theresa..I could still bash her philantropic work years from now because she drove drunk.

But murder and physical abuse, IMO, are two other animals (murder, especially). Thus the OJ Simpson and Chris Benoit cases.

[Andrew is Good]

thebigslow said:

How many signatures on NFL boards contain a picture of O.J. Simpson? Find me one, and I'll find you five on here that show Chris Benoit

To be fair, he died. That's why there are signatures with him.

Had Benoit not died, there would be no signatuares.

And yeah, this thread is gonna get locked pretty soon with more Benoit talk.

[#Classic Hi-Definition X]

And this discussion ends now. If you want to talk about Benoit, that's what the thread up top is for.