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Post by themanwithnoname on Jul 17, 2007 19:09:32 GMT -5
I don't know how anybody can claim vindication over steroids. The bottomline is that Benoit had an insane amount of steroids and that proves there's still a steroid problem.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Jul 17, 2007 19:18:58 GMT -5
Why doesn't anybody want to take the stance that perhaps Benoit wasn't taking them.. but he was dealing them to others? Not just in the WWE locker room, but any kind of athlete.....
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Post by Harmonica on Jul 17, 2007 19:33:44 GMT -5
I'm watching headline news right now and the lady with glasses is annoying.
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PrinceD
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Post by PrinceD on Jul 17, 2007 19:45:05 GMT -5
So Chris Benoit's testosterone to epitestosterone levels were 59 to 1. The average healthy male is usually 1-3 to 1. Anything above around 9 to 1 usually means the person is abusing growth hormone or anabolic steriods. I know they said that no steriods were found in Benoit's body but damn what was he taking to make his levels THAT high?
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Jul 17, 2007 19:46:35 GMT -5
He was just a man's man... a manny man man.....
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kswolf
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Post by kswolf on Jul 17, 2007 19:49:08 GMT -5
So Chris Benoit's testosterone to epitestosterone levels were 59 to 1. The average healthy male is usually 1-3 to 1. Anything above around 9 to 1 usually means the person is abusing growth hormone or anabolic steriods. I know they said that no steriods were found in Benoit's body but damn what was he taking to make his levels THAT high? They also said that human growth hormone is virtually impossible to detect with regular toxicological exams. He could have been taking tons of HGH without it being discovered.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jul 17, 2007 19:49:09 GMT -5
He was just a man's man... a manny man man..... Do you think this is a joke sunshine?
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JMA
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Post by JMA on Jul 17, 2007 19:51:50 GMT -5
I think it's clear Benoit was taking them, and even if he wasn't, he was still dealing them--that might just be worse. While the claims of "roid rage" were sensationalist, they started because of the 10 month supply Benoit was getting EVERY WEEK from his doctor. This can't and shouldn't be be ignored. Like I said before, both the media and WWE will take hits from this. There's no vindication for anyone. Everyone in this situation loses.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Jul 17, 2007 19:55:09 GMT -5
All I know is the toxicology results gave more questions than answers....
That plus the media blatantly making shit up will pretty much assure that we'll never get the true story of what happened.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Jul 17, 2007 19:58:45 GMT -5
The whole media thing and the wrestlers involved is getting weird. From AWAstars.com: That's right. BIG BULLY BUSICK is now speaking out on the subject. I think some of the impact of this event has been taken away by the media circus. I agree. There's been so much squabbling between different wrestlers and reporters over issues that may or may not be relevant to this case, the weight of the tragedy itself has almost been lost.
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JMA
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Post by JMA on Jul 17, 2007 19:59:20 GMT -5
Cena is on Larry King tonight. (At least that's what was advertised.)
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JMA
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Post by JMA on Jul 17, 2007 20:00:24 GMT -5
The whole media thing and the wrestlers involved is getting weird. From AWAstars.com: That's right. BIG BULLY BUSICK is now speaking out on the subject. I think some of the impact of this event has been taken away by the media circus. I agree. There's been so much squabbling between different wrestlers and reporters over issues that may or may not be relevant to this case, the weight of the tragedy itself has almost been lost. It makes one understand why a wrestling union would be hard to put together. That's a shame, too.
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Post by thesunbeast on Jul 17, 2007 20:02:38 GMT -5
I think MSNBC is stupid too now. I have to get this off my chest.
To know how stupid some of these media outlets are, you have to actually know about steroids. I know about steroids. NO ONE just takes testosterone and trains in the gym and gets huge, so to just say "well look at him, you can tell he was using lots of testosterone." that's just asinine..
Now lets look at he truth, testosterone IS a steroid. thearetically, was chris benoit taking a steroid? yes he was, so what does that mean? Well, lets take a look.
Testosterone and other steroids have many, many funtions. If you take them for one purpose, you're going to recieve the aspects of other purposes. Basic testosterone was the first steroid ever invented in the late 1800's-early1900's. It's good for preventing the breakdown of muscles for people who's muscles are breaking down. People then started to realize that testosterone helps you gain muscle, so world war 2 veterans were now experimenting with them.
BASIC testosterone is the testosterone of this era. there are many purposes and side-effects to using testosterone. Many people will say to you, "well, there's many side effects" or "yeah, they do this". Well I'm going to actually explain the best I can, what that ACTUALLY is, and what they do. Then you can have a clear picture, as I've done my homework for years now.
BASIC testosterone (one found in benoit) is the male sex hormone, so if there's a male sex hormone, then by gollie gee, there must be a female sex hormone. Many, Many, Many, MANY, MANY other steroids have been invented over the last 100 years, just to make up for the effects of BASIC testosterone, based on what you need it for. Example: BASIC testosterone will help you build muscle, but it also converts to estrogen, so if you want to take it to gain muscle, (like if you have MS) you would have to deal with the estrogen.
So a musclebuilding steroid would be, NOT, a steroid that builds more muscle, as if testosterone dosen't, becuase it does, no, it would be a TWEAKED form of testosterone that has a lower rate of conversion to estrogen, allowing you to use it for muscle gaining purposes, but you still have to deal with the estrogen. This is just ONE example.
I said before that BASIC testosterone has many side effects, here's how.
#1- BASIC Testosterone has a very high conversion rate to estrogen, as ALL OUR normal testosterone converts to estrogen in males, so it has to be this way. If you want testosterone that's just like the testosterone in your body, it has to converts to estrogen. Some people have said that BASIC testosterone converts to estrogen at a rate of about 15-20%.
#2- The more BASIC Testosterone you take, the more estrogen you will recieve. Side effectis of estrogen in males are gynecomastia, water retention, and fat gain. You WILL get this if estrogen is too high in males. So you dont want to take an abundance of BASIC testosterone, because it works just like your own testosterone.
#3- BASIC testosterone converts to DHT (dehydrotestosterone) at a very high rate. This is a masculanizing hormone, you grow facial hair and body hair, and makes you think like a man, improves your sex drive, and if you have enough of it, it will build up in your scalp and make you bald.
BASIC testosterone will give you ALL OF THIS. A man is suppossed to have alot less the amount of estrogen in his system as he does testosterone. If your testosterone level is at 900, and your estrogen level is at 100, you may be fine. If your testosterone level is at 400 and you estrogen level is at 25, then you need to take some BASIC testosterone, because it converts to estrogen. So if you were to take a level 500 amount of BASIC testosterone, it would bring your testosterone level up to 900, but the drug has a 15% conversion rate to estrogen, and there for it would bring your estrogen up to 100, adding 75. 100 estrogen would be good for a man. If you have a testosterone level of 900, an estrogen level of 100, and you decided that you wanted to take BASIC testosterone to gain muscle, if you took a level 500 BASIC testosterone, it would bring your testosterone level up to 1400, but it would bring estrogen up to 175. (way too high, almost double) See how this works?
The same thing applies to DHT. The ONLY beneficial reason (especially today) to take BASIC testosterone without suffering the effects of estrogen and DHT, is if you have a low amount of testosterone (which would give you naturally a low estrogen and DHT)
Now lets talk about bodybuilding. What do bodybuilders do? what steroids do they take, and how do they take them?
there are many different drugs that are used. This DOES NOT mean that they are just "taking loads of crap" to get bigger, there is actually a science to this. Today, there are many forms of tweaked testosterone, tweaked nandrolone, and tweaked dianobnal. But testosterone is the basic unit here, not BASIC testosterone, but other types.
There are some types of testosterone that are the same as BASIC, but they only have DHT conversion and not estrogen. There are others that have estrogen conversion, but not DHT.
Basically, you have:
-Testosterone Cypinoate -Testosterone Enenthate -Testosterone Propionate -Testosterone supension -deca-durabolin -Dianobal
Now, we've all heard that bodybuilders (anyone wanting to build alot of muscle) "cycle" them, but we haven't heard alot about "stacking" them, which they do as well.
See, if a bodybuilder took BASIC testosterone, he wouldn't ba able to have a 2000 level testosterone without haveing a 265 estrogen level and 300 DHT level (way too high) (By the way, the numbers I'm giving are just examples, so don't hate, it works the same exact way with real numbers.)
Here's what the bodybuilder will do: he will start out at say 900 testosterone/60 estrogen, 130 DHT naturally. He will take 400 of testosterone #2, (which converts only to estrogen, and not DHT, by only 6%) which now brings him up to 1300 testosterone, 84 estrogen, and 130 DHT. He will now take that along with a level 500 of testosterone #4 (which converts just to DHT, and not estrogen, at about 4%) which now brings him up to 1800 testosterone (twice that of normal man) 84 estrogen, and 150 DHT.
He will NOW take BASIC testosterone, mabe a level 500, which converts to both estrogen and DHT at 15%. brining him up to 2300 testosterone, 159 estrogen, and 225 DHT.
He will now take an estrogen blocker, that will only black mabe 50 estrogen at most, and a DHT blocker, that will block 100 DHT at most, and with these 5 or 6 drugs, he has just achieved 2300 testosterone, 109 estrogen, and 125 DHT.
we have reprters saying "Well look at him, it's obvious that he was using testosterone!!"
They don't have a clue what they're talking about.
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Post by thesunbeast on Jul 17, 2007 20:03:40 GMT -5
^^^^^^ I posted this in an earlier thread, I just want people to read it.
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JMA
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Post by JMA on Jul 17, 2007 20:14:58 GMT -5
Cena was on Larry King. He came off very well in my opinion.
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Post by thesunbeast on Jul 17, 2007 20:34:45 GMT -5
So Chris Benoit's testosterone to epitestosterone levels were 59 to 1. The average healthy male is usually 1-3 to 1. Anything above around 9 to 1 usually means the person is abusing growth hormone or anabolic steriods. I know they said that no steriods were found in Benoit's body but damn what was he taking to make his levels THAT high? They also said that human growth hormone is virtually impossible to detect with regular toxicological exams. He could have been taking tons of HGH without it being discovered. you can't determine the amount of testosterone that's in someone's body strictly by ratio. Anyone that know's anything about ratio's knows that. Dave Melzer said on nancy grace that the public is being misled by saying that benoit wasn't on astronomical mounts of steroids, because he was, and that his testosterone being 59:1 ratio shows that he had a testosterone level of 10 times that of a normal man. No he didn't, and Dave Melxer is the one misleading the public along with the media, because he dosen't know what he's talking about either, just a "little" more than the media. the only way to know how much testosterone was in benoit's system is to just know his testosterone level. OH WAIT!! That's right! they ALREADY SAID how much testosterone was in benoit's system, they just didn't understand the language and ignored it. In the PRESS CONFERENCE, the odctor said that benoit had a testosterone level of 207 nanograhms. which is higher than average, but not "10 times". The average is 150 nanograhms, or, a level of 700. So benoit's testosterone level was elevated by 30%. Now, where did these dweebs get the "10 times the amount" idea?, easy, they just multiplied the average ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, which is 6:1. they knew that he had a 59:1 ratio, so they see that 6:1 multiplied by 10= 60:1. just one number higher than 59. It IS true that benoit had a 59:1 ratio, so how does that happen? Well, the key word is RATIO. RATIO RATIO RATIO!! We also know that he had a testosterone level of 207 nanograhms, which IS NOT 10 times the normal amount. The ONLY way that benoit could simoultaniously have a 207 nanograhm testosterone level AND have a 59:1 ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, is ofcourse the thing that everyone wants to avoid, that is, that chris's epitestosterone was a mere 3.51. This is what all the evidence shows, do the math. This points to doctor Astin actually being truthful as far as benoit needing hormone replacement therapy for low testosterone, not that Dr. astin is correct in abusing that privelege. All of this has been said already, just no one wants to put the pieces of the puzzle correctly that actually has the information to do it, such as the doctors on the shows. But yeah, there's your answer to that question, but we have a ton more to answer. Benoit DID NOT have 10 times the amount of testosterone in his system that a normal man does, it's impossible anyway, everyone just assumes that because of the ratio of 59:1, but most steroid abusers epitestosterone shuts down completely, giving them an INFINITY ratio. They just assummed that benoit had a normal epitestosterone count to begin with. That's absurd.
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PrinceD
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Post by PrinceD on Jul 17, 2007 20:54:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the info sunbeast.
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Post by -Lithium- on Jul 17, 2007 20:56:27 GMT -5
Did Beniot drink? Cause I remember on the Beniot DVD he said his first beer was with Stone Cold in the ring, after he won the Royal Rumble. Unless that started him drinking or whatever.
I think it could be the concussion thing, they say that can mess up your brain...
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The Nature Girl
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Post by The Nature Girl on Jul 17, 2007 21:10:27 GMT -5
Well according to Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer who both appeared on Nancy Grace tonight, testoterone *is* apparently an anabolic steroid because it was included in the same category as the other steroids in a DEA document. Got this from right here: www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_21011.shtmlETA: And Wade Keller says this also, in which he comes up with an old interview with Dr. Black (the guy that administrates the WWE drug tests), said himself that testosterone was in fact an anabolic steroid, even though in the interview itself the doctor only said it was the "starting chemical of all anabolic steroids" and not an anabolic steroid itself. www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_21015.shtmlSo, what do you guys believe?
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Post by x on Jul 17, 2007 21:25:49 GMT -5
I like how when they didn't find any anabolic steroids in his body Nancy Grace No-Shows her show because she can't scream ROID RAGERz! at the camera.
But Mero was there waving that list around being the plastic man that his is.
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