Benoit all-topic thread #13

[Old School Heel mark4Morishima]

godz said:

So, here's a question...

Most baseball fans I know are not considering Barry Bonds' homerun record to be "legit" due to steroids.

Now I've seen several of you here say you'll still respect/admire Benoit the WRESTLER, just not the MAN.

So, why shouldn't his status be lowered as a performer as well seeing as how he apparently took testosterone like it was candy?

Benoit's test. use DID lower his ability as a performer.

Watch some tapes of Benoit. You'll see a lot of stunning suplexes and submission holds.

But you won't see hold-counterhold-hold-counter-hold-etc. chain wrestling. Not long stretches of it like you see with Finlay and Nunzio. That's the heart of "technical wrestling" right there?

Why won't you see Benoit do it? Because he was too damn bulky for his frame. Very limited flexibility.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

hsquat said:

godz said:

So, here's a question...

Most baseball fans I know are not considering Barry Bonds' homerun record to be "legit" due to steroids.

Now I've seen several of you here say you'll still respect/admire Benoit the WRESTLER, just not the MAN.

So, why shouldn't his status be lowered as a performer as well seeing as how he apparently took testosterone like it was candy?

Benoit's test. use DID lower his ability as a performer.

Watch some tapes of Benoit. You'll see a lot of stunning suplexes and submission holds.

But you won't see hold-counterhold-hold-counter-hold-etc. chain wrestling. Not long stretches of it like you see with Finlay and Nunzio. That's the heart of "technical wrestling" right there?

Why won't you see Benoit do it? Because he was too damn bulky for his frame. Very limited flexibility.

Or because that just wasn't his style. That's rarely the main event style in WWE anyway. He could do it when he had to. Sure, it was more fluid when he was smaller, but after seeing a Big Show/Kane chain wrestling match, I can't believe for a second that Benoit was incapable of it.

[Old School Heel mark4Morishima]

godz said:

Or because that just wasn't his style. That's rarely the main event style in WWE anyway. He could do it when he had to. Sure, it was more fluid when he was smaller, but after seeing a Big Show/Kane chain wrestling match, I can't believe for a second that Benoit was incapable of it.

His style was "technical wrestling." And if Big Show and Kane can get away with it on WWE TV, if it happens in every Finlay match and even Hardy and Kennedy pull it out during their bouts, he certainly wouldn't have been barred from doing it.

I'm positive he knew how to do it. And knew how to do it well.

But putting all of that bulk on a small frame introduces real physical limitations on what you can do.

Big Show and Kane have larger skeletons to hang all that mass on.

[I'm The Cool One]

speakeasy said:

The problem I have with this whole issue is that you know what? Even if it's not THIS issue, the WWE is still at fault in what they do at times, they ARE a shady company, and whether the workers want to admit it or not, size DOES matter. Sure, the WWE isn't responsible for what these guys to do to attain this size, but there needs to be some sort of change on the management end and creative end towards a more athletic, faster paced style. The tall and big guys have a place in the business too, but there needs to be some sort of change in the WWE's hiring style or this is going to keep happening.

okay, so do you mind me asking this?
what is your job at WWE exactly?

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

withteeth said:

speakeasy said:

The problem I have with this whole issue is that you know what? Even if it's not THIS issue, the WWE is still at fault in what they do at times, they ARE a shady company, and whether the workers want to admit it or not, size DOES matter. Sure, the WWE isn't responsible for what these guys to do to attain this size, but there needs to be some sort of change on the management end and creative end towards a more athletic, faster paced style. The tall and big guys have a place in the business too, but there needs to be some sort of change in the WWE's hiring style or this is going to keep happening.

okay, so do you mind me asking this?
what is your job at WWE exactly?

with all due respect, i don't know what you're trying to say. could you rephrase the question? perhaps that makes me sound stupid, but I really don't get what you're saying. are you saying I'm a WWE plant, or wrong, or what.

[Deleted]

hsquat said:

godz said:

Or because that just wasn't his style. That's rarely the main event style in WWE anyway. He could do it when he had to. Sure, it was more fluid when he was smaller, but after seeing a Big Show/Kane chain wrestling match, I can't believe for a second that Benoit was incapable of it.

His style was "technical wrestling." And if Big Show and Kane can get away with it on WWE TV, if it happens in every Finlay match and even Hardy and Kennedy pull it out during their bouts, he certainly wouldn't have been barred from doing it.

I'm positive he knew how to do it. And knew how to do it well.

But putting all of that bulk on a small frame introduces real physical limitations on what you can do.

Big Show and Kane have larger skeletons to hang all that mass on.

That makes sense to me.

Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed in the news just like everyone else. I've learned to deal with it though. Hopefully with this new news, people's opinion of Benoit will change.

[capfan]

I haven't been keeping up with the Beniot news, have they had the funeral Nancey, Daniel and Chris yet? If so did any wrestlers go to Chris's? I know Booker said he wanted to go.

[I'm The Cool One]

speakeasy said:

withteeth said:

okay, so do you mind me asking this?
what is your job at WWE exactly?

with all due respect, i don't know what you're trying to say. could you rephrase the question? perhaps that makes me sound stupid, but I really don't get what you're saying. are you saying I'm a WWE plant, or wrong, or what.

sorry, lol... sarcasm dosent translate well into text.

what i'm trying to say is this, you're stating that there is pressure on the guys in WWE to be big. and you're stating that as if you are a small guy working for the WWE. you dont have a job with the WWE (at least as far as i know) so how do you know that theres pressure on the boys to be big? so far we've heard from the guys who currently work for the WWE and they're saying that theres no pressure, yet nobody wants to believe that. which in turn means all those guys are liars for telling their POV.

as soon as someone comes out and says that theres pressure to be big, and that someone works for the WWE, then i'll accept that theres pressure...

much like jericho said on LKL, he's never been a big man, yet he was WWE champion... people should really put two and two together as opposed to looking for controvercy where there is none.

[01010010 01101001 01100011]

capfan said:

I haven't been keeping up with the Beniot news, have they had the funeral Nancey, Daniel and Chris yet? If so did any wrestlers go to Chris's? I know Booker said he wanted to go.

A memorial service was held for Nancy and Daniel last week. I know that JR and Vickie Guerrero attended but, not sure on who else. I don't believe that they have held a service for Chris yet.

[Tugboat4Life]

jinxed said:

A memorial service was held for Nancy and Daniel last week. I know that JR and Vickie Guerrero attended but, not sure on who else. I don't believe that they have held a service for Chris yet.

I've also read Chris Benoit's will be separate and in Canada; Roddy Piper will apparently attend.

[andrew8798]

From Impactwrestling.com

Nancy Benoit Family Planning Wrongful Death Lawsuit
Reported By RyanClark
7/18/2007

Nancy Benoit's family attorney, Richard Decker, has confirmed that the family is planning a wrongful death lawsuit in the Chris Benoit double murder-suicide case. He did not comment on who the defendants would be, saying that information will be released soon.

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

withteeth said:

speakeasy said:

with all due respect, i don't know what you're trying to say. could you rephrase the question? perhaps that makes me sound stupid, but I really don't get what you're saying. are you saying I'm a WWE plant, or wrong, or what.

sorry, lol... sarcasm dosent translate well into text.

what i'm trying to say is this, you're stating that there is pressure on the guys in WWE to be big. and you're stating that as if you are a small guy working for the WWE. you dont have a job with the WWE (at least as far as i know) so how do you know that theres pressure on the boys to be big? so far we've heard from the guys who currently work for the WWE and they're saying that theres no pressure, yet nobody wants to believe that. which in turn means all those guys are liars for telling their POV.

as soon as someone comes out and says that theres pressure to be big, and that someone works for the WWE, then i'll accept that theres pressure...

much like jericho said on LKL, he's never been a big man, yet he was WWE champion... people should really put two and two together as opposed to looking for controvercy where there is none.

No, you're certainly right, but at the same time, there is most definitely a tendency for the WWE to push the larger guys, as opposed to the smaller, yet more athletic types. I do agree with you, but I think there is at least a shade of truth to what I was saying.

[strangefish]

Does anybody else wonder how come Rock hasn't said anything? I would have thought we'd get some sort of comment outta him by now, but I haven't heard a peep.

[kswolf]

strangefish said:

Does anybody else wonder how come Rock hasn't said anything? I would have thought we'd get some sort of comment outta him by now, but I haven't heard a peep.

I'm guessing that Rock wants to stay as far away from this situation as he possibly can.

[JMA]

I wonder if John Kronus passing away will affect this situation any. He's the latest wrestler to pass away.

[poontangler]

hsquat said:

But putting all of that bulk on a small frame introduces real physical limitations on what you can do.

That's quite true...just look at Rey Misterio, Jr...when he came up in ECW and then early in his WCW run, he was the fastest thing going, weighing only between 130-140 pound...now fast forward to the end of WCW and you've got a noticeably slower wrestler...by the time he was in WWE and weighing 160 or so, he just wasn't the same wrestler anymore and it was mostly because of the extra weight and the bulkier manner in which he possessed it...anyone who is surprised to see his name in a steroid investigation doesn't know what he's looking at...

[OGBoardPoster2005]

Lance Storm on Nancy Grace now

[Big Hurt]

jbcool said:

Lance Storm on Nancy Grace now

Did she just call Lance, "Storm Evers"?

[ACG2x]

So I've only posted on the "Benoit threads" once only to share my opinion of the whole situation and then wait for the toxicology reports to come out since I, unlike our mainstream American media, choose to not speculate about something I don't know. Now that they have, I say this-

Nothing will change with the way the mainstream media reports stories. Not CNN. Not MSNBC. Not Fox News. None of them. They are all equally as bad. Each of them rushed to judgement that Chris Benoit went on some kind of anabolic steroid-induced rampage in killing Nancy and Daniel before himself. We now know that was not the case.

All the ranting, all the former wrestlers, some of whom actually had something interesting to say, some of whom were shamelessly whoring themselves to get free publicity, all the op-ed pieces mean nothing right now. It's the same with the Benoit story as it is with every story.

The media only cares about the sensationalistic value of the Benoit story. They don't care about Nancy or Daniel and certainly not about Chris and what other than steroids may have caused this. It was roid' rage or bust. And they busted out big time.

The medical examiner himself said that the level of testosterone in Benoit's system would not have caused a person to go on a psychotic rampage. WWE was telling the absolute truth when they said Benoit tested clean in April 2007 it also appears.

This leads me to my last point - all you conspiracy theorists need to shut the f*** up. Pardon my bluntness, but it's true. Now that no anabolics were found in Benoit's system, he's not guilty or there's some larger conspiracy? Please, give it a rest.

You people, like you were as the facts were just beginning to be released that Benoit did this, are now clinging to this microscopic hope that Chris didn't do this. And you're wrong. 100% wrong. No grey area. No "well, maybe it was ___".

The police and investigators have released a mountain of evidence proving you wrong. Chris Benoit murdered Nancy Benoit. Chris Benoit murdered Daniel Benoit. Chris Benoit murdered himself. It's really that simiple in this case. I don't understand why the absence of anabolics somehow acquit him. Lots of murders have been committed by lots of people who had less drugs surging through them than Chris Benoit.

I find it so sad and funny at the same time at everyone willing to formulate the most wild theories when most all evidence points to the contrary. Sometimes the most simple and right in front of you explaination is the correct one.

So stop looking on the grassy knoll for the Roswell alien spaceship that helped the US Government plan and execute 09/11.

The real issue here that so many forget is that two innocent people lost their lives in Nancy and Daniel Benoit. That's the only one that should matter right now.

I get disgusted just thinking about the different ways people have taken this story when it should focus on the tragic loss of two innocent human beings. I'm done. Rant the hell over.

[Deleted]

I understand what you mean about the conspiracy theories. Believe me, I was in shock for the first week or so and was thinking of crazy theories to prove Benoit innocent. As time progressed and I saw more evidence, I just had to accept that one of my heroes was capable of something so horrible. I think the people still suggesting another murderer are still in a state of denial, like I was.