Backstage politics?

[Bob Schlapowitz]

Just a quick question here regarding "backstage politics". I see so many people moan about how various wrestlers on top have used "backstage politics" to get to/stay at the top. How do these geniuses know this?

[HMARK Center]

Because they're often reported by actual reliable sources, and on-air occurrences and comments made in shoots have sometimes backed up the claims.

It exists, it's a negative part of wrestling, and it sometimes hurts the product you see...or occasionally might actually help it, depending on the parties involved.

[The Ichi]

Counter point: How do people that defend the accused wrestlers know they're innocent?

It works both ways and is a tired argument.

[wwerules60]

I think some of the backstage politic stories are very exaggerated but it has been backed up by many reliable sources that backstage politics do exist.

[Reverend BTY]

What I wanna know is why nobody just says "No JBL, don't soap me up!" I don't care if it gets you on people's good side, that's molestation and is up for lawsuit.

[Andrew is Good]

Hearsay mostly.

Backstage politics have also been well known in the buisness, and have also been talked about in numerous interviews by other wrestlers. These wrestlers use their power due to who they know, their position on the card, and their overness to try and get something or do something that others might not like.

Hearsay I do believe is mostly the case, but I feel some of it has the truth to it. The infamous line from Hulk Hogan, that doesn't work for me brother, has been heard by numerous wrestlers. Due to his contract, his star power and his influence, Hogan can say that and keep himself over. However, it's also the case that sometimes, things can be blown a tad bit out of proportion. So it's doubtful that Triple H is trying hard to keep people down to keep his spot and is plotting all this, but interviews and television evidence point to that he has kinda done that in the past.

When instances of backstage politics comes out, it's always best to ask questions. Why would so and so do this? Why would so and so be afraid of this person taking their spot? Where is the source coming from? Does the person writing this have any bias, or an axe to grind? Does the person who told this source have an axe to grind? Does this source have a bias towards the person who is on the losing end of this political situation? What is happening on television that could help prove that this is actually happening?

One of my main issues when it comes to internet reporting is ridiculous bias, and that people will get shot after shot, where it becomes difficult to know what's real and what's make believe. So and so may have a negative backstage influence, and many instances maybe true, but if the writer keeps knocking the guy constantly, and sometimes things get proven wrong, then it's hard to believe the guy when he's actually right. And vice versa. So backstage politics is actually a fascinating topic when you think about it.

Some use it to help people. People may not like The Boogeyman, but King Booker used his political power to get him re-hired. I think that's pretty cool on Booker's part. However, Triple H kinda made Booker look really bad at Wrestlemania 19 when they were doing the quasi-racist angle, and he won out and eventually moved on to bigger and better things, and Booker T went back down the card. Same thing happened with Hurricane when Rock put him over. Rock goes on to Goldberg, and Hurricane goes back to Heat after wrestling Triple H.

Some may be blown out of proportion when Punk was going to debut on Raw a few years ago. Apparently, Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Arn Anderson weren't big fans of his work. Punk's certainly not perfect, maybe he had an off night, or something didn't gel with his character. So many things made sense that it was blown out of proportion, but with their past, everyone believed that they were out to get CM Punk. Of course in the end, they were all right, as Punk waited to get called up and became twice as successful as he probably would have been if he debuted that night. Same with Mickie James, who was Punk's valet at the time.

[smartcenadude]

They don't really exist anymore now that Funaki is gone

[Andrew is Good]

I decided to make mention to this as well, and make another post about it.

I feel that the wrestling buisness, there are a different set of rules in it, then compared to the rest of society, and it's not just wrestling. It's with many clubs, groups, etc. Take the Union for example. In the Union, you could very well work Non-Union, but it's frowned upon, and you'll end up getting yourself in crap. Also, if you stand against the majority, you're going to get in crap, because the Union works when everyone works together to get a common goal. I'm knowing this now, because there has been striking in Alberta with the Carpenter's Union (well, illegal striking). So while it's hurting me financially, I'm not going to say this is bullcrap to them, for numerous reasons.

One, it's disrespectful, because the guys protesting and picketing are doing so to help me in the future, and help get a better deal for the scaffolders and the carpenters. And it's also going against the group mentality in fighting against the corporations. Also, violence sometimes happens when people cross the picket line. It's not the best way to solve things in my opinion, I don't believe it should come to that. But, the person crossing the picket line is essentially spitting in the face of every worker there trying to make a better living for themselves in the future, so who wouldn't take offense to that.

Same with the Catholic church. I do not want anyone to respond to this and cause a religious debate, I'm just using this as an example. Mostly because I don't play sports, and I wouldn't know what a sporting locker room is like. If you're a preist, you have to follow a certain line of rules, or else they could be kicked out. They conceivably could have sex with whoever they want (not children of course), and the law will do nothing. But that group that they are in would have a fit over it. Same with different cultures all across the world. In the UK, it's normal for teenagers to get piss loaded drunk, porn to be sold on the streets, and booze to be sold at corner stores (I'm using the UK as an example because I love the UK, lol). In certain parts of Canada, people have different thought processes, different ways of doing things, and different unspoken rules that would be different if you lived somewhere else.

So when critisizing somebody for doing something in wrestling, you have to take into account whether it would be normal to do that in wrestling. That's why I'm always defending Hardcore Holly for what he did to Matt Cappotelli, because in wrestling, that's a norm. Ribbing is a norm. And if you get pissy and be a little b**** about it, you're going to get shunned. Al Snow gave this advice to any wrestler getting ribbed. Don't sell. One time, a bunch of people put crap in Alundra Blaze's bag. Now, I feel that's crossing the line, like, getting a bit roughed up and ribbed is one thing, but that's a little different. But she didn't sell it. Nobody picked on her ever again. No one did any kind of ribbing to her.

It's like when they have court at WWE, a kangeroo court. It's because someone isn't conforming to the norms of the locker room. It's like, in one country, it's legal to smoke weed, while in another, it's different. Well, just because it's right somewhere else, doesn't mean you do it legally in a place where it's not legal. Not that I oppose anything, or want to strum up debate, but I'm using all these as examples.

I hope I don't get hammered for going political, and please if you're going to debate what I say, don't debate my examples, debate wrestling itself. Like, by that, I mean, well, I should smoke weed here and there, da da da da, and get me in crap for being political (which isn't my intention).

But yeah, I just ranted there. But the long of the short is, when reading things, keep in mind is this normal in the locker room, because it's a different society then normal society, like many other clubs, groups, or whatever.

[HMARK Center]

So when critisizing somebody for doing something in wrestling, you have to take into account whether it would be normal to do that in wrestling. That's why I'm always defending Hardcore Holly for what he did to Matt Cappotelli, because in wrestling, that's a norm.

But there's where we have a problem.

Hazing, ribbing, stiffing...these do nothing to further the well being or the general cause of a professional wrestler. They're childish jock games that are done by people who want to experience a power trip, or enjoy lording something over another person ("I can kick your ass, blah blah blah").

And it's the kind of mentality that leaves wrestling trapped in it's carnival roots, rather than rising up and embracing the 21st century.

It's one thing to have fun ribs, its one thing to call a guy out for being a jerk or being overly pompous, it's another thing entirely to pull the kind of crap JBL did in the showers. Wrestlers certainly do have a "fraternity", but when it's taken so far that stuff like that is still deemed acceptable, there's a problem.

[-Lithium-]

vincerussoisgod said:

What I wanna know is why nobody just says "No JBL, don't soap me up!" I don't care if it gets you on people's good side, that's molestation and is up for lawsuit.

Yeah thats complete bullshit and there aint no denying it. What kinda logic is that? Obviously they think that if you dont let some guy molest you in the shower, your not "one of the boys". Just bullcrap...

[Andrew is Good]

hitmanmark said:

So when critisizing somebody for doing something in wrestling, you have to take into account whether it would be normal to do that in wrestling. That's why I'm always defending Hardcore Holly for what he did to Matt Cappotelli, because in wrestling, that's a norm.

But there's where we have a problem.

Hazing, ribbing, stiffing...these do nothing to further the well being or the general cause of a professional wrestler. They're childish jock games that are done by people who want to experience a power trip, or enjoy lording something over another person ("I can kick your ass, blah blah blah").

And it's the kind of mentality that leaves wrestling trapped in it's carnival roots, rather than rising up and embracing the 21st century.

It's one thing to have fun ribs, its one thing to call a guy out for being a jerk or being overly pompous, it's another thing entirely to pull the kind of crap JBL did in the showers. Wrestlers certainly do have a "fraternity", but when it's taken so far that stuff like that is still deemed acceptable, there's a problem.

But again, it is part of that society. With stiffing, essentially what happens is guys get used to it. Name me a good wrestler who hasn't had a stiff match, or hasn't been stiffed in the ring, and been successful. There maybe some, but very few. Hell, in ROH, there's lots of stiffing going on, and even when Bryan Danielson got his eye messed up. And I guarentee that someone like Danielson (he's just an example because he recently had a minor injury) was stiffed during training. The ring itself is hard to fall on. So essentially, a lot of guys are toughening up the younger talent, and that's how I see it.

I remember I asked this awhile back when I saw that match where Claudio, Strong, Shingo, MDogg and Mark Briscoe beat the smurf out of Pelle Primeau. People were saying that it was the intention behind it. But Jesus Jones, stiffing is stiffing. Matt Cappotelli got nothing compared to what Pelle got. You can call stiffing good intentions all you want, it's still stiffing. And to me, I feel it's ok to a point.

If you're going out and breaking somebody's arm, or doing something to them that will take away from them making money and being successful, that's one thing. But bumps and bruises are essentially facts of life. Not that you should always be stiff, because the best wrestlers are those who make it look stiff and not be stiff, but that doesn't mean everybody won't be. Some guys work differently then others.

And the JBL thing comes up to, and to be honest, I wouldn't care if that was done to me. Now, nothing has been done to me, but I've been jokingly hit on at work more times then I can count. You just don't sell it. I've been sexually harassed on countless occasions, but didn't sell it and you have to take it with humour. It was said that one reason people get ribbed is to test how thick your skin is, and how willing you are to stay in the buisness. Because if you get past the ribbing, then everything else, from the road, to the ring is just easier. If you go threw it and no one bothers you, well, you crack easier. Again, I'm not saying kill people or put them in harm's way, but if you mess with them a little bit, there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean, Homicide got drunk one night and tried to piss on CM Punk. Everybody laughs at that. I have not seen anyone get upset over that. JBL touched somebody's ass in the shower. He's doing it to mess with you, to joke around, to get a reaction and to get a laugh. I don't know, I guess I'm comfortable with myself. If he's throwing me up against the wall and trying to have his way with me, that's a whole different story.

And it's not like he doesn't get stuff in return. I mean, JBL stepped out of the shower one time, and Charlie Haas threw a bucket of freezing cold water on him.

[JMA]

It's too bad that fans are (usually) only "skeptic" about news reports when it concerns wrestlers they like. Skepticism is good, but not when it's used to justify the opinions a person already has. "Smark bait" (a term I first coined) is real, but you shouldn't apply it to news just because it makes you question your previously held beliefs. That's just a way to relieve cognitive dissonance.

[JMA]

Anyone else find these threads to be incredibly repetitive? I mean, we've heard all these arguments before and most people probably haven't changed their opinions. Then again, I suppose one could say the same thing about many threads here. This subject tends to come up often, though, and it's the same people saying the same things. I knew the posters who would contribute to this thread and knew exactly what they would say right when I saw the title line, just as I knew I would post in it myself. There are no surprises here. Just two sides competing for influence. But that's at least kind of interesting, unlike the typical "quote wars" one sees on most message boards.

I think one of the distressing features among fans is that they need reality to conform to their beliefs, rather than the other way around. For example, if a fan really likes a wrestler and something bad is reported on them by, say, Dave Meltzer, they'll often choose to ignore it or explain it away. (That doesn't mean the information is right, but they refuse to even accept that possibility.) Anything unacceptable to THEIR vision of reality is sent down an Orwellian memory hole.

[uncleslam]

bobschlapowitz said:

Just a quick question here regarding "backstage politics". I see so many people moan about how various wrestlers on top have used "backstage politics" to get to/stay at the top. How do these geniuses know this?

Magic 8-ball.

"Is HHH holding people down?" <shakes Magic 8-ball> "Unlikely."

"Is Hogan evil?" <shakes Magic 8-ball> "All signs point to yes."

[Rob's No. 1 Fan]

ravenm said:

vincerussoisgod said:

What I wanna know is why nobody just says "No JBL, don't soap me up!" I don't care if it gets you on people's good side, that's molestation and is up for lawsuit.

Yeah thats complete bullcrap and there aint no denying it. What kinda logic is that? Obviously they think that if you dont let some guy molest you in the shower, your not "one of the boys". Just bullcrap...

I don't care what anyone says. No real man let's another man soap him up or play with his butt in the shower. LOL .

"There is to be NO BUTT-PLAY! NO! NO!!"

Come to think of it - what real man would WANT to soap up another man or play with his butt in the shower?


.

[uncleslam]

jlee said:

ravenm said:

Yeah thats complete bullcrap and there aint no denying it. What kinda logic is that? Obviously they think that if you dont let some guy molest you in the shower, your not "one of the boys". Just bullcrap...

I don't care what anyone says. No real man let's another man soap him up or play with his butt in the shower. LOL .

"There is to be NO BUTT-PLAY! NO! NO!!"

Come to think of it - what real man would WANT to soap up another man or play with his butt in the shower?

It's a trust thing. They want to see if you'll rat them out for doing something stupid, like if they get in a bar fight or rape a ring rat. If you just stand there and take it, they can trust you. If you say "Hey, get your damn finger out of my butt," they know they're dealing with a squealer, and they need to keep their behaviour in check around this new guy.

[Rob's No. 1 Fan]

You talkin' wrestling politics? or prison politics?


(no response necessary - I'm just messin around).. lol


.

[uncleslam]

jlee said:

You talkin' wrestling politics? or prison politics?

Is there a difference?

[Danimal]

Norms? Bullying shouldn't be an accepted norm anywhere. A cult has norms does that make those actions right? Holly would have gone nuts if Matt randomly decided to just beat him up, Holly being the authority-figure doesn't make it right. It is justice that guys that injured Holly(Angle and Lesnar) were too tough for him to get them back.

As far as ribs go they should be something the victim can laugh-at afterward and reciprocate. I can take a joke and laugh at myself, maybe take a little pain in the process, but some stuff a guy shouldn't have to put up with.

Ya wrestling is a weird and rough-and-tumble business, it is going to have different norms than the typical workplace. But that doesn't make everything that goes-on backstage OK.

[Reverend BTY]

andrewisgood said:

hitmanmark said:

But there's where we have a problem.

Hazing, ribbing, stiffing...these do nothing to further the well being or the general cause of a professional wrestler. They're childish jock games that are done by people who want to experience a power trip, or enjoy lording something over another person ("I can kick your ass, blah blah blah").

And it's the kind of mentality that leaves wrestling trapped in it's carnival roots, rather than rising up and embracing the 21st century.

It's one thing to have fun ribs, its one thing to call a guy out for being a jerk or being overly pompous, it's another thing entirely to pull the kind of crap JBL did in the showers. Wrestlers certainly do have a "fraternity", but when it's taken so far that stuff like that is still deemed acceptable, there's a problem.

But again, it is part of that society. With stiffing, essentially what happens is guys get used to it. Name me a good wrestler who hasn't had a stiff match, or hasn't been stiffed in the ring, and been successful. There maybe some, but very few. Hell, in ROH, there's lots of stiffing going on, and even when Bryan Danielson got his eye messed up. And I guarentee that someone like Danielson (he's just an example because he recently had a minor injury) was stiffed during training. The ring itself is hard to fall on. So essentially, a lot of guys are toughening up the younger talent, and that's how I see it.

I remember I asked this awhile back when I saw that match where Claudio, Strong, Shingo, MDogg and Mark Briscoe beat the smurf out of Pelle Primeau. People were saying that it was the intention behind it. But Jesus Jones, stiffing is stiffing. Matt Cappotelli got nothing compared to what Pelle got. You can call stiffing good intentions all you want, it's still stiffing. And to me, I feel it's ok to a point.

If you're going out and breaking somebody's arm, or doing something to them that will take away from them making money and being successful, that's one thing. But bumps and bruises are essentially facts of life. Not that you should always be stiff, because the best wrestlers are those who make it look stiff and not be stiff, but that doesn't mean everybody won't be. Some guys work differently then others.

And the JBL thing comes up to, and to be honest, I wouldn't care if that was done to me. Now, nothing has been done to me, but I've been jokingly hit on at work more times then I can count. You just don't sell it. I've been sexually harassed on countless occasions, but didn't sell it and you have to take it with humour. It was said that one reason people get ribbed is to test how thick your skin is, and how willing you are to stay in the buisness. Because if you get past the ribbing, then everything else, from the road, to the ring is just easier. If you go threw it and no one bothers you, well, you crack easier. Again, I'm not saying kill people or put them in harm's way, but if you mess with them a little bit, there's nothing wrong with that.

I mean, Homicide got drunk one night and tried to piss on CM Punk. Everybody laughs at that. I have not seen anyone get upset over that. JBL touched somebody's ass in the shower. He's doing it to mess with you, to joke around, to get a reaction and to get a laugh. I don't know, I guess I'm comfortable with myself. If he's throwing me up against the wall and trying to have his way with me, that's a whole different story.

And it's not like he doesn't get stuff in return. I mean, JBL stepped out of the shower one time, and Charlie Haas threw a bucket of freezing cold water on him.

Homicide was having a drunken night with Punk, Joe, and the rest. That's hanging out with friends. I'm assuming wacky shenanigans happen on to you during a drunken night. Not ony that but Homicide knows it was kind of f***ed up to do. What Mr. Layfield is doing is touching a guy's nude body when he shouldn't be. Making what can be taken as an unwilling sexual advance. It's caused people to quit for shit's sake. Why nobody can go "Yes, this is what happened" in a courtroom is beyond me. I can damn near guarentee that "we're making sure he's one of the boys" wouldn't fly.