livetowin
Dennis Stamp
Just Keep Walkin'
Don't be negatin'!
Posts: 4,430
|
Post by livetowin on Jul 13, 2007 15:22:05 GMT -5
Yes. But you know as well as I know, Hughes wasn't ever going to tap out Gracie. Especially not with a gi choke. I don't deny that Hughes is a good fighter. I deny that he is a great fighter. In his last title run he defended his belt twice. Once against Joe Riggs who sucks and once against BJ who was horribly out of shape and got blown up after the second round. He held the belt 1 year and 7 months and had 3 fights. Greatest Champion Ever my ass. Dan Henderson would kill him. BJ dislocated a rib. He did not get winded.
|
|
ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
|
Post by ICBM on Jul 13, 2007 19:06:14 GMT -5
I still contend Gracie was with it and could have thought his way out. He had made a huge mistake by giving HUghs his back but I am serious this guy has been fighting for more than 30 years, he is calm and as anyone who has ever trained in JJ can tell you, you don't panic, you wait or force an opponant into making a mistake
|
|
wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
|
Post by wwerules60 on Jul 13, 2007 19:19:39 GMT -5
The rules are that you have to intelligently defend yourself, Gracie was getting pounded and wasn't doing that so the fight was stopped.
|
|
|
Post by chrisplettuce on Jul 13, 2007 19:43:05 GMT -5
Matt is on a different level than Gracie now, plain and simple. Matt probably could've snapped his arm easily but didn't do it out of respect for the man. Royce is not unbeatable and I'm willing to bet that pretty much every noteworthy welterweight out there right now could smash him. He just hasn't evolved and he's getting up there in age. Ex: Ken shamrock.
|
|
|
Post by Maskanodel on Jul 13, 2007 21:53:45 GMT -5
Yes. But you know as well as I know, Hughes wasn't ever going to tap out Gracie. Especially not with a gi choke. I don't deny that Hughes is a good fighter. I deny that he is a great fighter. In his last title run he defended his belt twice. Once against Joe Riggs who sucks and once against BJ who was horribly out of shape and got blown up after the second round. He held the belt 1 year and 7 months and had 3 fights. Greatest Champion Ever my ass. Dan Henderson would kill him. Doesn't need to tap him to beat him. Putting him to sleep, which would be likely in the hypothetical situation, is always a possibility. And why wouldn't Hughes gi choke him? If the opportunity presented itself, I'm sure he'd take it. He certainly wouldn't be unfamiliar with them, due to his relationship with Jeremy Horn. The point is, gi or no gi, Royce loses the fight. I love Royce, for all he's done for the sport, but he's not the fighter Hughes is. The game Royce played and the game Hughes plays are completely different. I really hate defending Hughes, but facts are facts. Henderson probably would smash Hughes, but they're in different weight classes, so the point is mute. And for the record, Penn didn't blow up, he separated his ribs late in the second. Now whether or not he would have won is up in the air (I think he would have), but to say he gassed isn't fair. No mobility in the core is a good enough reason to lose to anyone.
|
|
pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
|
Post by pegasuswarrior on Jul 14, 2007 2:52:18 GMT -5
I just watched UFC unleashed tonight and I am sick to my stomache. The rules that UFC adopted have indeed made the events more entertaining but at the expense of real honest to God discipline and talent. The Hughs/Gracie match is a great example of this. I completely understand what led Big John to stop the match but knowing Royce's history, his discipline and having an understanding of how he works out of any situation tells me that despite the verdict of the match Royce would have won out had Big John not stopped it. First Gracie gets a disadvantage by having to fight "No-Gui", he adapts anyway Second Hughs capitalized on a huge mistake by Royce and took his back with about a minute left in the round. If there were no time limit alla original UFC no-rules rules he could have calmly waited this out, forced Hughs into a mistake and at least got back to his guard. Hughs knowing the round is ending rapidly starts swinginf like a drunk (but disciplined) sailor. Gracie did not panic, he protected himself the way he has trained to for 35 years and the fight was stopped because the new UFC conditions fans to believe that a man in Gracie's situation should give in. Gracie had fought out of an armlock that would have tapped any other MMA fighter in the world. He can take a few punches. Bottom line: After seeing this I understand why the Gracie's pulled out of UFC. I mean no insult to Matt Hughs, who is a great striker and a solid grapler. But Hughs would never have ever started grappling had it not been determined a long time ago that BJJ would halt and counter any other style. The fact that Hughs knows both styles so well and uses them so well is because of Roran, Rickson, Royce and the Gracie Jiu Jitzu style Eh, I agree. I haven't liked UFC for a while anyway. The only Royce Gracie defeat I'll acknowledge is Kazushi Sakuraba. The negative thing about that, however, is the use of rounds. One round, unlimited time, no match stoppage by the ref (I can understand corners throwing in the towel)--that is how you determine a better fighter. My response to the hilarious complaints about Gracie's unwillingness to get with the times? Right, because that's where martial arts began: training for fighting/defense if AND ONLY IF there are time limits, rounds, and someone who doesn't have jack to do with who is the better man determining when it's "over." Now, pardon me while I roll my eyes.
|
|
|
Post by tibbo on Jul 14, 2007 7:24:27 GMT -5
I suppose lying face down on the mat having your head pounded in is pretty relaxed and calm as you described Gracie's technique. If the match went on for another minute or so he would've been even more relaxed as he would have been KOd I really dont see how you can defend Gracies performance when the fact is he was outclassed the whole match, nearly got his arm broke, and now he has tested positive for banned substances too
|
|
|
Post by odanobunaga on Jul 14, 2007 12:39:38 GMT -5
Matt is a Great performer. Royce is a legend though. You can daydream and go on about how every single welter weight could smash him but lets remember the welters age and Royce´s age shall we?
And also, lets not forget that he isn´t a JTTS right now. He did score some victories over much younger men before.
|
|
|
Post by jaywatts on Jul 14, 2007 18:23:21 GMT -5
Am I the only person who thinks Gracie is a disgrace for getting caught on massive amounts of juice? I forgot the exact anabolic steroid that it was but his levels were through the roof and then he denied everything. What a disgrace.
|
|
|
Post by odanobunaga on Jul 14, 2007 18:34:08 GMT -5
Am I the only person who thinks Gracie is a disgrace for getting caught on massive amounts of juice? I forgot the exact anabolic steroid that it was but his levels were through the roof and then he denied everything. What a disgrace. He really doesn´t need them but he takes it anyway...It´s just dumb if you ask me.
|
|
|
Post by mysterydriver on Jul 14, 2007 18:40:33 GMT -5
Am I the only person who thinks Gracie is a disgrace for getting caught on massive amounts of juice? I forgot the exact anabolic steroid that it was but his levels were through the roof and then he denied everything. What a disgrace. Nandrolone. It works without showing much growth. His ratio was over 50 to 1. Scary. ...He didn't need it either. I believe that.
|
|
knightboat
Unicron
The Snake Roberts Ruined My Wedding
Posts: 2,720
|
Post by knightboat on Jul 14, 2007 19:41:08 GMT -5
Hughes worked over Gracie, if it was the old UFC Hughes would have left the kimura in and borken Hoyce's arm
|
|