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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 9:53:47 GMT -5
Not necessarily. If the crowd loves watching the heel perform incredibly horrifying acts, they're going to visit backlash on the babyface who prevents the heel from doing those things. If they want to see Swerve stomp somebody's kid through a cinder block, they're gonna boo the shit out of Hangman (or whoever else) when he stops it from happening. That one sounds more like a wrestling crowd problem than a booking one. Especially if they're trying to make Swerve more villainous and the fans eat it up. And again, just to point out, nobody was cheering Hangman over Swerve or saying his actions were too far. Like, we're not talking about John Cena embarrassing Michael Cole over commentator calls here.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 6:12:51 GMT -5
The answer is never “write less entertaining heels”. Know what the solution is? Torture your heels. First the heel does something shitty, then you write your babyface to f*** with the heel in an entertaining way and drive them nuts. You'll have the issue of people saying the face went too far and forgetting all the crazy stuff the heel has done. I think it'd have to depend on the wider context and what the story was going in and out of it but you're also not entirely wrong. Like, what Hangman was doing with Swerve in the Texas Death Match made sense because what happened before it but if, say, Swerve mocked Hangman's dog and he responded the same way...yeah.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 5:43:22 GMT -5
Cena's post full time booking has been absurd. And what gets to me is that Cena was the guy that got WWE out of the post MNW rut and helped them get as profitable as they are now. I can’t imagine a WWE where they fired John Cena in 2003, it’s the biggest What If scenario since “What if Steve Austin wasn’t poltic’d out of WCW?”
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 5:20:38 GMT -5
Naito would never do this just saying Naito would pretty much do a Lex Luger, not even in the "jump to another company" sense, but by literally walking out on stage in another company.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 5:18:11 GMT -5
I get why he’d want to go the Jushin Luger route of primarily putting talent over after years of mostly super strong booking, but they’ve played up Cena’s desire to show why WWE calls him the GOAT and his frustration over his singles losing streak that I don’t think fans or longtime Cena detractors would be pissed if he, say, went over or won and then vacated the US belt or something for his finale. I've said this for years, WWE's treatment of Cena, after how Taker, Austin, Rock etc have been is super weird to me. I'm not even expecting Superman Cena again but it just feels like Cena losing should mean more than it does and it doesn't. So yeah, if, say, Cena won the US title and vacated it, I'd be down. Give him something to chew on instead of "Austin Theory poked him a bit" and boom, match!
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 4:47:20 GMT -5
So I decided to basically merge both Okada threads together, mostly because they're sort of about the same thing and also because we don't know where he might go yet so it makes sense to have it in the right section for now.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 4:03:07 GMT -5
I think the real question is whether Okada will get as much satisfaction from stealing the ring gear of anyone in WWE as much as he does stealing from the Bucks. Always the one to ask the most important questions.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 3:19:38 GMT -5
This will come down to Okada preferring the AEW schedule or other little details because if you don’t think WWE will outspend TK just for spites sake, you got another thing coming. The problem is, there’s a feeling they just haven’t been willing to. They didn’t for Will Ospreay or Jay White and they seemingly haven’t for Mercedes Mone and those three, arguably, would have been bigger blows for AEW because two of them have appeared on AEW TV before and the latter would have basically made a statement of an actual change in administration. They can spend, absolutely. They just need to actually spend.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 3:05:28 GMT -5
Oh true, it’s just more that after the misses WWE has had in terms of recruitment last year, somehow missing out on Okada? It would make me wonder how they go about these things, especially since the merger. I think it comes back to two things when people are choosing other promotions over WWE. One, the general structure of the actual WWE product as it relates to working to cameras and wrestling style (which might be less regimented now that Kevin Dunn is gone, but for most of the staff his playbook is all they've ever known, so it might take some time to change) and two, the historical baggage. Absolutely, I don’t disagree. And it’s hard to fully say to someone from Japan “Hey, we’re different now!” when for every Asuka and Nakamura, there’s a whole tonne of Jacket Times and Sailor Scout Sareees lingering about to remind you that you have to be the right Japanese star for them to not get lumped into that. But at the same time, if there’s a guy you could easily try and fully change that perception for, it’s Kazuchika Okada. There's obviously something to be said for the possibility Okada takes a lesser offer, or Tony is willing to tear his entire bank account asunder to land him, but it would be pretty crazy if they give an unbeatable completely off the wall deal to Jade that makes Tony even negotiating a non-starter, but then they don't offer anything it takes to poach Okada from them. Exactly my point. If there’s a guy you throw the boat at, it’s the guy whose a big enough game to use in your attempts at making entry way in Japan and in that case, you make sure you can seal that. Basically, if SRS gets another “We never wanted them anyway” story in the next couple of months, I’ll genuinely wonder what’s going on in Stamford because there’s no way that you want your biggest free agent acquisition since Cody Rhodes to be Brian Pillman Jr. EDIT: I guess Punk does count. But I’m more talking about bidding wars than anything else since WWE lost a lot of them last year.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 2:09:25 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, man, more than any recent free agent I can think of, if WWE ain’t able to set up a dump truck of yen to Tokyo to nab Okada, I basically don’t have any idea what’s going on with their talent recruitment. Like, HHH should have read the press release and had an opening bid prepared by the time he finished it. There's virtually zero chance they don't make an offer, but I guess the question is going to be how much both companies offer him, and what exactly it is Okada wants to do. Going to venture a guess that, unless he gets injured, whichever company he goes to is having their first Japanese world champion within the next 2 years. Oh true, it’s just more that after the misses WWE has had in terms of recruitment last year, somehow missing out on Okada? It would make me wonder how they go about these things, especially since the merger.
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Post by eJm on Jan 19, 2024 2:03:37 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, man, more than any recent free agent I can think of, if WWE ain’t able to set up a dump truck of yen to Tokyo to nab Okada, I basically don’t have any idea what’s going on with their talent recruitment.
Like, HHH should have read the press release and had an opening bid prepared by the time he finished it.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 16:16:31 GMT -5
Let's not act like WWE audiences haven't cheered for cool heels or mercilessly booed heavily pushed faces in recent history. Hell, LA Knight's and Seth Rollins' turns were practically mandated by the crowds. The only difference between WWE now and then is that WWE actually pivots as opposed to pulling a Cena or mid 00's Roman and stubbornly keeping their alignment. It still happens from time to time, like their stubbornness with Bobby Lashley for some reason, but even with him they eventually went “Ok, we get it, you love him, he’s a face now.” As someone pointed out, it’s the job of the booker to make things work to suit what you want to do storyline wise because that’ll make you the most money and get the most reactions. If people love Swerve with Nana, you keep Swerve with Nana and ride it out until they don’t anymore or you see a good opening to change it.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 11:33:07 GMT -5
I think the thing some people need to realize is, just because you don't like it and don't understand it, don't go and say it's a problem when it's really over with the crowd (number one objective in wrestling) and has elevated Swerve to main event status. He's getting the biggest pops with the crowd right now and it's more to do with him and how he carries himself rather than Nana. And even if your opposing point is "Well, they're cheering him because...", I'd like to see your survey work for the audience watching because speaking for the audience is never a great idea. Heck, one of the reasons AEW exists in the first place is because one company decided to try and do that for its audience so us fans doing it seems like a bad idea.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 9:13:55 GMT -5
This makes absolutely no sense. They're going to get rid of Sting? It's Sting's final match, he's going anyway. I think it’s more that they wanna be the ones to send him off with a loss. Yeah, the promo made that clear. They have no problem with Sting, just what Sting embodies and want to be the ones to send him off to send a message. Makes sense to me.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 8:51:48 GMT -5
Oh yeah, literally 80-90% of the roster is a better qualified than Jinder (or as I said earlier in the thread, Jinder is fine if you actually, pushed him in any way to build him here), I just like to dunk on Seth's participation trophy belt at every opportunity And that can I can respect.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 8:40:59 GMT -5
Now, now, hear me out. In the idea's defense It's Seth's consolation trinket belt, who cares? ;-) I mean, I don't but if I were the top wrestling company in the world and my only choice to give the world title to was Jinder Mahal, I'd be on a Zoom call with Tony Khan, Bob Iger, David Zaslav and whoever other rich CEO I can find and offering them the WWE at a WCW discount. Because, again, we can do better for the bronze medal belt. EDIT: I don't even hate Jinder but, like, if you want an over midcarder who has shown to be able to do bigger, longer matches against talented opposition to beat Seth Rollins, Chad Gable's right there for example.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 8:23:46 GMT -5
I love his whole stoic, no-nonsense presentation from bell to bell. But imagine each time Gunther wrestled, Kaiser and Vinci come out and do a dance routine getting the crowd to imitate. Okay so this hits on where the fundamental problem in how you're viewing this comes from. Imperium would not dance not because they're heels, but because they're specifically wrestling purists who say the ring is sacred. Total hardasses focused on something that specifically, explicitly contrasts against the guys who do the dancing. It doesn't fit because it's out of character, for the 'stoic, no-nonsense presentation' you talk about. Not because of his role as a heel. Swerve is not a comparable character; he's a maniacal, f***ed up villain. He rapped his own theme song and comes out in a big-ass coat, and rather than settling his fights in the ring and defending his title like a true wrestleman, he's done multiple home invasion stories and uses a cinder block to destroy people over entirely personal animosities. What works for one charcter doesn't perfectly map to naother. Like, functionally, pro wrestling characters aren't supposed to be alike in terms of motivations, character traits or overall image because that's what happens in sports since you're supposed to believe these people are competition for wins and titles. There's a reason the Crazy Gang Wimbledon team of the 80s isn't compared to the Liverpool teams of the same era or the Bad Boy Detroit Pistons aren't compared to the Jordan era Bulls because they both serve functionally different purposes and reasons to try and get to the same goal of a championship. As you rightfully mentioned, if Imperium and Mongol Embassy met up, they'd hate each other instantly because Gunther would think they're blemishing the sport with their actions and Swerve wouldn't appreciate being talked down to and, like, check up on Jinny and their newborn child in their home or something. They still both want to retain or win championships using their own means because that's their goals.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 6:15:58 GMT -5
Like, for how devious Roddy Piper was as a heel, that didn't stop DIC Entertainment from having Charles Adler voice him for their Hulk Hogan cartoon or have CBS put him as a host for their Saturday Morning lineup showcase show where he interviewed Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, which are not all words I lumped together and that all actually happened.
Why this seems to be a wrestling moral failing when entertainment in general is littered with popular antagonists is beyond me.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 4:56:15 GMT -5
Every free agent should be exploring their options. It's why I was genuinely surprised to see Ospreay sign with AEW before his NJPW contract even expired without gauging WWE's interest. Unless that already happened in private. Allegedly, it did. After AEW made the announcement, WWE gave SRS one of those "We didn't really want them anyway" stories they do for all the free agents they don't get.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2024 4:46:50 GMT -5
Knowing how Rumbles have gone this year, Ishii will enter Number 4 and get thrown out immediately.
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