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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 4, 2023 19:33:05 GMT -5
Give it a few more weeks for the non-compete to run out, and gimme Archer teaming with Shelton X. Benjamin, pls.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 4, 2023 19:20:18 GMT -5
I was actually kinda hoping the entire promo would be the himbos just singing "Jay pinned MJF" from start to finish.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 4, 2023 17:41:40 GMT -5
Looks like MJF has a new significant other. Think it's Alicia Atout, from MLW.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 3, 2023 20:17:39 GMT -5
It's really amazing any of us remained fans through that shit. 2004/2005 was diiiiiiire. (I stopped watching summer 2005 until about January 2008 so it may have gotten worse) Early 2004 was when I decided I'd try to get back into watching regularly, having mostly given up on current wrestling and only checking in now and then from around early 2000 through the next couple of years. By early 2005 I was utterly done. Thank God ROH was running wild at that point.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 3, 2023 20:14:23 GMT -5
Its also helped that AEW have made the prices for this very reasonable, just $36 a ticket for a PPV is great value. This is a very good considering I thought a PPV right after Christmas and the day before New Year's Eve would be a tough sell......glad to see I was proven wrong.
This is the biggest factor I think. Sales for Dynamite in Louisville were VERY sluggish, but they priced them competitively week of, and just from being in the building I’d estimate there was a very respectable 4500-5000 or so by bell time. Crazy to me it's taken them this long to adjust, but I don't know if there were reasons why on that front (e.g. maybe deals with venues/ticket companies not to offer too many deals until shortly before a show?). I can only wonder if boosting the prices was working out for them financially, but if there's anything the last couple months should show them it's that perception matters and becomes reality for a lot of people, and even if they were making money with the higher prices/lower numbers it still became a whole "nobody wants to go anymore/the show is cold" narrative that it seems they could've cut off at the knees by just keeping prices around where they were last year. Just strange, all around.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 3, 2023 19:13:08 GMT -5
Part of me regrets never getting to the Nassau when it was still the "Mausoleum": super loud venue when full, old school arena set up, would've liked to experience something big there when it was all creaky and falling apart.
Won't be making it out for this one, though; it's tough enough getting to UBS from north Jersey, another 20 minutes minimum of driving on a work night for me is just not feasible.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 3, 2023 16:52:51 GMT -5
Way too early to be saying anything for certain, of course, but a little over 10% of the way through and you've got Boston and Vegas dominating, plus Vancouver and Arizona in playoff positions, go figure. In the Atlantic, I'm curious if Boston will level off: the lack of center depth has to bite them at some point, doesn't it? The rest of the division seems like a jumble right now; Ottawa's off to a flat start, yet if they win their next two they'd be right alongside the top of the non-Bruins pack. Hard to see Montreal holding on too long, also hard to see Toronto not going on a tear at some point. The Metro is curious; the Devils might have legitimate goaltending issues, or it might just be some early season adjustments to some new defensemen and combinations in front of them, but meantime their powerplay is now clicking around 45% success, which is so far beyond everyone else that it's kind of staggering, and the league has to adjust at some point. The Islanders seem to be riding their goaltending to wins, but hey, no rule saying you can't do that, while the Rangers are playing a more complete game than they've shown in most recent years, which I'm curious to see if they can stick to moving forward. Carolina has to make a move sooner than later, you'd think. As for out west, I think Dallas vs. Vegas remains the marquee endgame matchup, but I think the Avalanche are back in form, and if the Canucks are for real it'd arguably be the story of the year. As a San Jose Sharks fan, I'm enjoying the winless run here. I knew we'd suck & it gives me something to strive for (to have the longest winless streak to start the season in the NHL) because Dear God, we're not going to accomplish anything else so accept the Schadenfreude. Just gonna keep singing the "We're F***ing Sh**" song that Liverpool fans sang because that's how insane I am right now. Blackwood stopped 10 of 14 shots he faced, and that made him San Jose's most effective goalie of that game. Ye gods.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 2, 2023 11:20:53 GMT -5
7 sounds about right; great opener, story progression, fun through-line with MJF looking for partners, and Full Gear shaping up nicely. Not one I'd scramble to go back and watch again, but it did its job.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 2, 2023 11:10:13 GMT -5
Certainly, I suppose, something like a reporter's tone is a subjective thing, but I'm not even referencing the stuff he says that is paywalled, I'm just referencing the stuff he's been putting out lately on Twitter. In my personal opinion, the extent to which his tweets over the last 2-3 months have outright become "WWE > AEW" is jarring to me. I don't disagree that Dave has been critical of AEW throughout its entire existence. I don't dispute that a large portion of that criticism may be warranted. And I definitely don't dispute that it's not my place to tell somebody what they should or should not criticize. But I do think Dave has been pandering to the anti-AEW wave on social media lately. EDIT: And just to bring it all back around onto the actual topic at hand, Meltzer's reporting in the OP "we're talking about AEW like we used to talk about WWE" and "that's one of the reasons that the shows are like the shows are" are both examples of adding "WWE > AEW" flourishes to stories that I don't think Dave used to do as frequently. The tone there is 1) WWE is no longer subject to that criticism because we "used to" talk about it that way and 2) it is a conclusive fact that the AEW shows are more disjointed and incoherent than WWE shows. The news/critique of Khan making last minute changes to the shows could have easily been accomplished without Vince McMahon comparisons and the vague criticism that AEW shows "are like the shows are." Ironically I think the shows have been more focused for AEW. Right, and it goes back to the other point: among regular viewers, the general tone surrounding the product has been pretty positive going back a couple of months now, as well. It's what makes a lot of the general "this is why the show is how it is now" criticisms feel so strange; again, anyone saying "I don't like (insert storyline here) due to (insert reasons here)" is normal for any show, but it's weird to watch a show with pretty clear ongoing angles and have some of the biggest critiques be that they're not telling stories or building to anything. The former is expected with any media, the latter is what makes you wonder if everyone's watching the same show or not.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 2, 2023 6:05:35 GMT -5
With respect to both of these posts, I have to just chime in with a different perspective here which I realise will be unpopular with some but there you go: I actually do agree with a lot of what both of you are saying but just having gone through this thread: There are a few mild criticisms of AEW/Tony and speculation about Meltzer's changing opinion of the shows in the first few pages, then somebody comes in and drops a post saying how the thread 'embodies' the problems with discussing AEW and how people are doomposting about AEW is on the brink of death, etc. Somebody has asked them to show where people are doomposting, and the only response they got was from another poster saying 'well it happens elsewhere'. Since then it's all about the state of discourse and so on. I have read through the thread and the only 'toxic' or tribalistic post I have seen is from an AEW fan shitting on WWE and its fans, and that post is still sitting there while other people have since come in to post about how discussing AEW is so tiresome because of all the hyperbolic negativity towards AEW. Yes, people make stupid doomposts about AEW all over the internet and I have no doubt that it does happen on this website, but has that happened in this thread? I don't see it. Most people actually seem to have tempered their criticism to pre-empt any accusation of doomposting, yet here we are again having the big discussion about how it's so miserable talking about AEW on here, people are so negative, etc. Not to say that your experiences on the board aren't valid because I know that has happened elsewhere, but I'm waiting to be pointed to the posts that went beyond the pale in this thread. My point being: It isn't just negative/critical posts that contribute to these kinds of discussions spiralling out of control and into this kind of meta-discussion. In this thread a couple pages of relatively negative criticism is met by posters coming in, and sharing the dumbest takes they've seen elsewhere on the internet as if they are representative of the discussion being had here, which is just as effective at poisoning the well because it comes off like an attempt to shut down any discussion that veers into mildly critical territory. But yes I agree with the central crux from both of you that 'this shit isn't fun' lol. It would be a huge help to all of this if people quoted the specific posts they feel are doomposting or are disingenuous or bad faith or whatever. Already happened in this thread.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2023 19:39:50 GMT -5
I'm amazed Bishop can move more than diagonally
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2023 19:39:01 GMT -5
You'd think a guy who lives in the midwest would be used to it. Further proof that moving to Nevada is ill-advised.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2023 19:37:10 GMT -5
For f***'s sake, take any personal shit to personal messages and keep it out of the f***ing threads. Jesus Christ.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2023 16:01:46 GMT -5
...I'm mostly confused how Smackdown is "football-proof" when it airs on Fridays, not Saturdays or Sundays.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2023 15:44:24 GMT -5
Here's what I meant before about "talking in circles":
In a normal fandom...ok, you know what, terrible start, lots of fandoms are completely and utterly insane, but just roll with me here...when people bring up "criticisms" the idea is to discuss something or somethings in particular about a show/movie/franchise/property/whatever that the person bringing it up feels warrants criticism. For a long time, this wasn't a big problem around here; people would discuss characters and storylines that worked or didn't work for them and their reasons why they felt that way, like any typical conversation we usually have around our other sections here. I know there are complaints about some posters who are way too quick to jump in to "Well, ackshully..." some of those complaints, but the point remains that a lot of what we'd discuss were specific things like "hey, this particular gimmick doesn't work" or whatever.
What's changed in the last few months is that since the "it's ice cold!" perception got out there, suddenly we don't really talk about that very much. Threads with "criticisms" instead veer almost instantly into just some weird all-encompassing take that says that the entire show is failing, or "there are no stories", or some other really broad critique of the entire promotion, and have this air to them like we're here to criticize things for potentially having a negative impact on business instead of whether or not we actually enjoy a given act, match, or feud. These are much, much harder to have actual conversations and threads about, in part because it feels less like a fandom conversation and more like we're pretending we know much or really even care all that much about the business side of things beyond a simple curiosity.
And the circular talking comes in when the same super broad talking points get trotted out, regulars on this part of the board address them with "hey, I watch the show, here's what you missed that explains X" or "you're saying the entire promotion isn't doing Y, but here's stuff they're doing that contradicts that argument", but then we lather, rinse, and repeat after a short while, and it genuinely comes off in many cases like some of the critiques are coming from people who barely or perhaps don't even watch the shows, but who want to hop aboard the current trendy narrative. It's becoming really, really dull to talk about, but it feels like pro wrestling fandom, here but also elsewhere, is increasingly of a mind that we need to care more about how something impacts ratings or ticket sales instead of whether or not we had fun watching it, and that's just depressing to consider.
I know for me, my big criticism right now is that they have both Shida and Statlander being babyface "fighting champions", which feels repetitive for the division, especially when Shida already did that with her first reign and it feels like she could be doing something different now, especially with how far she's come with her English (e.g. if they wanted to do more promos or what have you with her). I'm sure there's some metrics Khan and company might be going by that shows the two of them defending like that brings good numbers, but I don't care, I think it's a weak creative choice when there are other options available. With this critique I'm trying to point to something specific on the show that I think could be done better within the context of the kind of show AEW puts on; I'm not trying to pan the entire show, say it's a systemic failure by the bookers, and I'm not saying AEW should book itself like a show that it simply isn't, since that almost automatically derails conversations into "well, what about this other angle that shows you're wrong about your broad, company-wide critique?"
Don't know if this works for people, but the gist is that talking wrestling is fun, but this shit right now ain't fun.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 1, 2023 10:54:56 GMT -5
AEW creative direction has been in the mud for a WHILE. Even worse, most of the slips that got them to this point is their own damn fault. Poor builds to matches (TK is a good matchmaker but a HORRIBLE storyteller), hotshotting stuff, bringing all these new toys instead of using the roster you have which results in acts getting cold, folks being devalued, etc. It all results in an ice cold program with very little in the way of compelling TV. AEW had the benefit of being a hot promotion with an excited fanbase. Now that they’ve cooled off and the new car smell is totally gone, the flaws are really starting to come through. Off rip, they need a new Booker. Somebody, anybody, but whoever is putting the shows together now? Don’t got it. ...Are we just talking in f***ing circles again?
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 31, 2023 12:22:22 GMT -5
Frankly, it's also Halloween weekend; I know I was out Saturday night to walk around the city and see costumes and bar specials and whatnot.
Sucks to see a great match like that not get the live viewership numbers it probably warranted, but guess the DVR numbers will get factored in more over the coming days.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 31, 2023 11:14:10 GMT -5
Are any other prominent pubs really going after AEW in a bad way, though? Fightful's has had some constructive criticism but it's never unfair, WrestlePurists still love it, the Torch has always been skeptical. It really feels like this is just the Observer is going harder than usual. I think there's some merit to some of what they're saying, but they're also probably going a little over the top with it. Astroturfing suggests WWE is pulling strings with everyone in the media and I'm not sure that's what's going on in most cases. I dont think anybody specific is doing it. definitely not WWE staging some kind of weird astroturfing campaign. I WILL say it does seem like a certain segment of the wrestling fanbase have decided that dunking on AEW is currently the cool thing to do for whatever reason and it seems to have spread like wildfire by people who don't even actually give a shit and just want to be part of the cool kids table. most of these people arent watching WWE either, they just like having something to comically bitch about. this is basically the only place I feel comfortable talking about wrestling anymore because it seems like the online wrestling dialogue has been taken over by people who don't even seem to actually enjoy wrestling anymore and just want to bring everyone down with them. make no mistake, if WWE were the ones in a ticket/ratings slump at the moment they'd be complaining about them instead. Shit, you see it with other promotions, too: "Impact Wrestling sucked so badly they had to change it back to TNA", says groups of "fans" who haven't watched the company in years and ignore that it's mostly had decent to strong critical reception for years at this point. Many of us have also (rightly) crapped on the NWA for Corgan's dumb public statements and strapping up Tyrus, but you'd think there was literally nothing else going on or anyone else working those shows based on the way people talk about it...when people who actually checked the product out would tell you the parts that might be enjoyable. There's a lot of people who are so wrapped up in the "business side" of things that they can't bring themselves to enjoy a decent or sometimes outright great show, or so they make it seem.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 30, 2023 20:34:44 GMT -5
I just realized I used she for Abadon above. That's my bad, a complete f*** up on my part. Speaking of, I hope we see Abadon more. Don't just wheel them out for next Halloween. They always get over with the crowd so please, more Abadon I think we will; they were out for ages with a collarbone break, and outside of AEW have had barely any other matches all year. Apparently they tried to come back in the spring, felt off about their approach, and spent most of the rest of the year training at Dustin Rhodes' school. By the sound of it, when they tried to come back they felt they had to rethink their in-ring approach to avoid other injuries, or something like that. And don't feel too bad, I wrote "she" at least a couple of times in putting that sentence together and had to catch myself. Curse my old man brain!
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 30, 2023 20:32:02 GMT -5
Kaybebop on reddit coming through with an absolute masterpiece:
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