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Post by I'm The Cool One on Dec 19, 2007 13:48:38 GMT -5
no
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 19, 2007 13:56:57 GMT -5
The deal breaker in the lawsuit will be the time off Benoit took, and that will kill the case. It showed that WWE did care for Benoit's well being when he was given 5 months off with pay. Because of that, the lawsuit will not happen.
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404error
Mephisto
GO LEAFS GO
Posts: 719
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Post by 404error on Dec 19, 2007 14:05:01 GMT -5
One of the first things I thought of when I heard about the brain damage was something Brian Alvarez said on one (or more) of the F4W shows -- Why was the WWE allowing Benoit to do those flying headbutts if he misses 75% of the time? They should told him not to do them anymore, and fined him each time he did. Maybe even suspended him. It looked cool, but it did more damage to him.
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
Posts: 7,206
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Post by Reverend BTY on Dec 19, 2007 14:10:44 GMT -5
Not completely. I'm of the belief that head trauma played a factor in the whole thing. What other business would this much abuse be taken to the head year long? Don't get me wrong, there is personal responsibility on the part of Benoit. Obviously it was him making the choice, whether in the right mind or not. However, I think he would have been mentally healthy without, or at least more, if it weren't for the wrestling business.
So I guess it's less WWE I'd put some blame on and more the wrestling business as a whole.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 19, 2007 15:24:55 GMT -5
re: the head injuries
I know from interviews with Maven and Randy Orton they were told in OVW not to put their hands up when taking chairshots, in facr Orton ended up a couple of concussions because of it. So, if that is how guys are trained, it's worrying. However, I don't know if that was coming from OVW or Vince because Vince has claimed several times he tells people to put their hands up when taking chairshots.
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Post by joeman on Dec 19, 2007 15:49:34 GMT -5
Zero undiagnosed concussions? Given Benoit and many other wrestlers high impact style, did the WWE ever check anyone out for concussions? Did they care? Or did they just want the wrestler to shake it off and make it to the next town? Oh wait, PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY~1. Please. Michael Benoit has enough to make it to trial based on the concussion thing alone. Why did the WWE let Chris continue to do flying headbutts and other wreckless moves for years? WWE does have restrictions on high impact moves, it's called safe style. A lot of people want to see safe style do away with, but that would destroy the lives of so many wrestlers in the E if it was done.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,279
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 19, 2007 16:37:57 GMT -5
WWE was not, in any way shape or form, responsible for Benoit's actions. Despite the scenario that has emerged since that Benoit was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off, we should not forget that even the wrestlers themselves all said in the days following the tragic events that they had never seen this coming. It is only in retrospect that they have all been able to see the small, perhaps too subtle signs that Benoit was slipping emotionally.
The things WWE are responsible for are things that they have been blamed for for years already. Working wrestlers into the ground, turning a blind eye to drug and steroid use, allowing dangerous moves to be repeated night after night. But this is something that the entire wrestling industry has been guilty of since nearly its inception.
The only thing I hold WWE accountable for is what I consider their appalling lack of closure on the issue. I could certainly understand their efforts to perform damage control following what happened, but I also think they went insanely overboard concerning it. I think it is fair to say that amongst other things, Chris Benoit will never make the hall of fame. Any matches that featured him will never again be aired, even in "best of" DVD's. In the words of King Xerxes from 300: "It will be as if you never existed at all!" I am not trying to trivialize those horrendous final acts of the man's life. But just about every wrestler and promoter I have heard who spoke on the issue all said they will forever remember him for who he was, not what he became. WWE could at least show the same decency.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 19, 2007 16:47:25 GMT -5
The only thing I hold WWE accountable for is what I consider their appalling lack of closure on the issue. I could certainly understand their efforts to perform damage control following what happened, but I also think they went insanely overboard concerning it. I think it is fair to say that amongst other things, Chris Benoit will never make the hall of fame. Any matches that featured him will never again be aired, even in "best of" DVD's. In the words of King Xerxes from 300: "It will be as if you never existed at all!" I am not trying to trivialize those horrendous final acts of the man's life. But just about every wrestler and promoter I have heard who spoke on the issue all said they will forever remember him for who he was, not what he became. WWE could at least show the same decency. I think they're scared of being accused of trying to make money out of him. It's a no win situation for them, ignoring him might not be the best idea,but the can't honour him either. As for 'working them into the ground'...the idea that they work 300 days a year isn't true anymore. In fact I think it was Alvarez that said the average WWE wrestler works 140 days a year, which isn't that bad at all. I think it's the travelling that does most of them in to be honest.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bird...Birdie...birdie......Tiger...Tiger Tiger.....
R2C2 Reporting for duty
Posts: 17,355
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 19, 2007 17:08:12 GMT -5
WWE was not, in any way shape or form, responsible for Benoit's actions. Sadly that's wrong. They are responsible at some level. However, how much is in question. Are they responsible enough to be considered legally liable? Probably not. Like Andrew said, they gave him a 5 month paid vacation to clear his head. That shows they knew he had something wrong and they tried to fix it. However, there's still a lot of stuff we don't know, and we won't probably ever know unless this goes to trial. I just wish people would stop saying there's "100% no way WWE is liable" or stuff like that. The law is much more complicated and subtle than that. For example, if it does go to trial and WWE wins, that doesn't mean WWE was not liable at all, it just means they aren't legally liable i.e. they're more than 50% liable. I think, morally, WWE should be accountable. And i think, as a good will gesture, work out some payment to his children. But legally, I don't know if it's enough for the Benoit's to win unless there's proof we haven't heard yet that WWE knew Benoit was unstable and possibly dangerously violent, but didn't do anything outside of the vacation, then maybe.
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Wheresmy5bucks
Team Rocket
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Posts: 853
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Post by Wheresmy5bucks on Dec 19, 2007 18:06:15 GMT -5
Er...as far as I know how this stuff typically works from a traditional sense(Common law?)
Shouldn't, since Benoit died last, his estate go to his two living children via inheritance?
Doesn't make any sense for Nancy's family to get anything from it, since they can't sue Chris Benoit in a civil suit(given he's you know, dead.).
As for the WWE suit, it's just another one of America's problems. Slight Complaint? SUE!
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bird...Birdie...birdie......Tiger...Tiger Tiger.....
R2C2 Reporting for duty
Posts: 17,355
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Dec 19, 2007 18:13:05 GMT -5
Er...as far as I know how this stuff typically works from a traditional sense(Common law?) Shouldn't, since Benoit died last, his estate go to his two living children via inheritance? Doesn't make any sense for Nancy's family to get anything from it, since they can't sue Chris Benoit in a civil suit(given he's you know, dead.). As for the WWE suit, it's just another one of America's problems. Slight Complaint? SUE! That's where the order comes into play. I believe under common law, in a case like this, the person who died before Benoit would have the most say. However, the court could split it or something. I don't know off hand about other cases like this. Depending on how they were decided will decide this case.
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Garee
King Koopa
I miss the old days
Posts: 11,338
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Post by Garee on Dec 19, 2007 18:36:39 GMT -5
No way, he did what he did and thats that, he should be the only one held responsible
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Post by dh03grad on Dec 19, 2007 18:44:27 GMT -5
No way, he did what he did and thats that, he should be the only one held responsible Thankfully, thats not reality. The employer always has a responsibility for the well being for its employees (independent contractors). What if the NFL did not check their players for concussions and kept sending the players out there.
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Post by tarheelfan on Dec 19, 2007 18:45:13 GMT -5
Professional wrestling is just another example of a job that usually pays great money but the tradeoff is that it comes with great risk. If people like Chris Benoit expected to make big money and have fame than that was part of the nature of the wrestling business. I'm not going to sit here feeling sorry for the man because the fact of the matter is that he knew the risks going in the business. I said this before and I will say it again that going on an educated guess that other wrestlers have been injured yet why have they not been able to recoup dameages? What makes Benoit so special? The fact is that he isn't more special than the other wrestlers.
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Post by tarheelfan on Dec 19, 2007 18:47:28 GMT -5
No way, he did what he did and thats that, he should be the only one held responsible Thankfully, thats not reality. The employer always has a responsibility for the well being for its employees (independent contractors). What if the NFL did not check their players for concussions and kept sending the players out there. Huge difference. Benoit killed innocent people outside the squared circle. The WWE had no control over that.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 19, 2007 18:57:51 GMT -5
I think Benoit always had this darker side, so I'm not just going to say 'brain damage' and that excuses him from everything. The way JR and King talked he treated his kids like trained robots, and don't even get me started on him forcing Daviari to do squats to the point he peed blood.
And, if you look at the profile of a typical family annhilator Benoit fits it down to a T (middle aged, quiet, isolated, loner, high pressure job), and that's without the brain damage factor.
I think it was possibly the brian damage in combination with this controlling,scary side that did it. But he had it in him to kill two people, which is what seperates him from a guy like Mick Foley, who's also had serious concussions over the years.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 19, 2007 19:07:18 GMT -5
Hell no WWE shouldn't be held accountable. If I murder people, should the Postal Service be held accountable?
EDIT - That's probably not the best example to use, is it? ;D
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Post by tomservo23 on Dec 19, 2007 20:12:30 GMT -5
I have a question. How come WCW, or any of the past promotions Benoit ever worked in, are never criticized for the workload they put him through?
I do realize that I'm giving journalism in general too much credit to actually do three seconds of research, but why is WWE getting the brunt of criticism? I understand that they're the only ones in business anymore, but it just seems lazy to not ask those questions.
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Post by tomservo23 on Dec 19, 2007 20:17:34 GMT -5
Professional wrestling is just another example of a job that usually pays great money but the tradeoff is that it comes with great risk. If people like Chris Benoit expected to make big money and have fame than that was part of the nature of the wrestling business. I'm not going to sit here feeling sorry for the man because the fact of the matter is that he knew the risks going in the business. That's true, but I liken it to football. Only a small number of guys who ever played the game made big money, just like wrestling, and the ones who didn't are left with nothing but the horrific bodily injuries, just like wrestling. So why not question a business that chews guys up and spits them out? I still don't know why wrestling gets killed in the court of public opinion, but the NFL gets off relatively scot-free. They're guilty of the same thing in my opinion.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Dec 19, 2007 20:32:00 GMT -5
Why did the WWE let Chris continue to do flying headbutts and other wreckless moves for years? Independent contractor, Benoit chose to wrestle that style, WWE okays what he can and can't do.
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