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Post by stevierichardsfan on Dec 26, 2007 9:09:03 GMT -5
dude love rocked
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HRH The KING
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
Posts: 15,079
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Post by HRH The KING on Dec 26, 2007 9:25:14 GMT -5
I don't think they look like a total ass.
I think they look like people who clearly identify that WWE writers are very limited in their capabilities.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Dec 26, 2007 9:38:59 GMT -5
It would be a heel character, not a comedy character. A satirical commentary character based on the social issue of glass ceilings and minorities was always going to be beyond the writing capabilities of Stephanie and Vince McMahon. Remember Muhammed Hassan? First he was an Arab American with a very valid point of contention to speak of....but that didn't last long and he eventually became a quasi-Jihadist. And not to forget Eugene. The character who was supposedly going to be a person facing challenges in his life (IE: disabled) who's dreams were going to come true, didn't last beyond a week before he was turned into a comedy retard. WWE creative should never attempt any character with a deeper meaning, because they simply aren't talented enough to pull it off. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 26, 2007 11:57:29 GMT -5
WWE creative should never attempt any character with a deeper meaning, because they simply aren't talented enough to pull it off. I really don't think the character was intended to have a "deeper meaning". It was a Mexican guy pretending to be a preppy white guy. That's it - it was a comedy angle. Why does every thread have to evolve a broader anti-WWE pile-on. It's free entertainment on TV folks, only buy the PPVs if you're really into it. Comedy gimmicks are automatically crapped on - if you want a promotion with all serious-looking generic guys without gimmicks, I'm sure you can find that somewhere else. That's not this product.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 26, 2007 12:02:14 GMT -5
HRH... you actually *bought* that crap about Hassan and Eugene? Don't you realize WWE does that special press release every time they debut a character that is likely to get all the overly sensitive types all in a tizz. Aboslutely - Eugene was a comedy characater from day one. And despite this board freaking out about it, he was WAY over for a while, until the whole thing got played out, which was bound to happen. Hussan was one of the most over heels of the last 5 years. It was cheap heat, sure, but that's what wrestling is. The Iron Shiek, Nicholai Volcoff, Mr. Fugi, Ivan Koloff, Fritz Von Erich (Nazi Version), ect. Hussan was no different.
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HRH The KING
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
Posts: 15,079
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Post by HRH The KING on Dec 26, 2007 12:28:08 GMT -5
An unfunny one. WWE writers and even some fans may have found it comedic, but for me it was a waste of a talented wrestler in a gimmick that was going nowhere.
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Post by Avalanche Alvarez on Dec 26, 2007 12:30:00 GMT -5
The same people that greenlit: Cryme Tyme Ron Simmons' one word vocabulary and Santino Morella Check my avatar.
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Post by Near Fantastica on Dec 26, 2007 12:39:39 GMT -5
He was Kerwin White, then Eddie died, then he became Eddie.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 26, 2007 12:43:34 GMT -5
An unfunny one. WWE writers and even some fans may have found it comedic, but for me it was a waste of a talented wrestler in a gimmick that was going nowhere. Some found it funny, some didn't, just like any attempt at comedy. He wasn't going anywhere before, and he really hasn't done much since outside the Mysterio fued. There's nothing wrong with him not being gimmickless "Chavo Guererro" for 6 months of his life and trying something new.
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Tapout
Hank Scorpio
WWE Creative(TM)
W.W.W.Y.K.I.
Posts: 6,919
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Post by Tapout on Dec 26, 2007 14:17:36 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the Kerwin gimmick was Chavo's idea. The guy was trying to get some attention and some TV time, so he went off the beaten path. Keep in mind, this is a duder whose WCW gimmick was a crazy kid who shaved his own head because he was obsessed with Eddy.
I say it was a hilarious heel gimmick and the timing was unfortunate for obvious reasons. Also, it would be impossible for him to go back to it because it'll be forever associated with those times.
If Chavo continues to use a Latino Heat-like heel gimmick for the rest of his run as a tribute to Eddy, you could do a lot worse. Guy has never been a great talker but he can easily hold up his end of a match.
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HRH The KING
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
Posts: 15,079
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Post by HRH The KING on Dec 26, 2007 14:33:27 GMT -5
An unfunny one. WWE writers and even some fans may have found it comedic, but for me it was a waste of a talented wrestler in a gimmick that was going nowhere. Some found it funny, some didn't, just like any attempt at comedy. He wasn't going anywhere before, and he really hasn't done much since outside the Mysterio fued. There's nothing wrong with him not being gimmickless "Chavo Guererro" for 6 months of his life and trying something new. I think giving a wrestler a bad character that may be hard to recover from is far worse than being gimmickless. Take Lance Storm for example. They tried the "boring" gimmick, then the "dancing" gimmick, then the "big dink" gimmick. If they are really struggling to give a guy a character to such an extent that the best they can come up with is a Mexican guy who thinks he's white, then it's better to just leave him as plain old Chavo and just focus on booking him to wrestle strong matches, rather than character.
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Post by molson5 on Dec 26, 2007 16:32:48 GMT -5
I think giving a wrestler a bad character that may be hard to recover from is far worse than being gimmickless. Take Lance Storm for example. They tried the "boring" gimmick, then the "dancing" gimmick, then the "big dink" gimmick. If they are really struggling to give a guy a character to such an extent that the best they can come up with is a Mexican guy who thinks he's white, then it's better to just leave him as plain old Chavo and just focus on booking him to wrestle strong matches, rather than character. With Lance Storm, that's definitely true, because the guy has the charisma of an old fishing hat. And some other guys work better as themeslves, because they themeselves are more interesting than any gimmick. What I know for sure (just my opinion), that I don't want to follow a wrestling company entirely filled with guys with normal names and no gimmicks. That's be boring to me - I might as well just watch MMA. I want the occasional goofy gimmick, and hey, even when if fails, there's the potential for unintended comedic results (which is of course, the basis of this entire website). Kerwin was one of those harmless gimmicks that I enjoyed. When it comes to wrestling, I say err on the side of the silly gimmick. You can always dump it later. And I would say for good workers, recovery from a "bad" or silly gimmick is very possible - it happens ALL the time.
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Post by SWH - Shane Hero on Dec 27, 2007 0:13:23 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a bad gimmick in wrestling, only people who can't make it work. Think about it, gimmicks like Eugene and Hurricane get over, and they're wacky comedy gimmicks. The crowd loved them, they sold heaps of merchandise.
Then you have big lugs with a good physique, who get a bad-ass gimmick and a heap of squash matches to try get them over, or big wins, or titles... whatever. And they don't get over.
And look back through wrestling history... should the Undertaker have ever gotten over, given how crazy his gimmick sounds on paper? Shouldn't Made In The USA Lex Luger have been the biggest thing ever, given the push and gimmick he had?
So it's not the gimmick that sucks, it's the guys playing the part that determine if it works or not. Obviously bookers should be giving the right gimmicks to the guys who can pull them off, but sometimes you don't know until you try whether something will work or not.
If you want to be one of those people who believes that every wacky comedy gimmick is automatically rubbish, then you'll never like them no matter how well they're pulled off. It's like if you hate a certain genre of film or type of music, it doesn't matter if you're watching a good example or a bad example; if you don't like it you're not gonna like it regardless, so your opinion on the matter is limited in it's value.
So for what it was Kerwin White was not a bad gimmick. Chavo played it really well, and it could not have been done any better for what it was. Kerwin was never gonna main even WrestleMania... but then neither is Chavo, is he?
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damna
Don Corleone
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Post by damna on Dec 27, 2007 1:28:04 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a bad gimmick in wrestling, only people who can't make it work. Think about it, gimmicks like Eugene and Hurricane get over, and they're wacky comedy gimmicks. The crowd loved them, they sold heaps of merchandise. Then you have big lugs with a good physique, who get a bad-ass gimmick and a heap of squash matches to try get them over, or big wins, or titles... whatever. And they don't get over. And look back through wrestling history... should the Undertaker have ever gotten over, given how crazy his gimmick sounds on paper? Shouldn't Made In The USA Lex Luger have been the biggest thing ever, given the push and gimmick he had? So it's not the gimmick that sucks, it's the guys playing the part that determine if it works or not. Obviously bookers should be giving the right gimmicks to the guys who can pull them off, but sometimes you don't know until you try whether something will work or not. If you want to be one of those people who believes that every wacky comedy gimmick is automatically rubbish, then you'll never like them no matter how well they're pulled off. It's like if you hate a certain genre of film or type of music, it doesn't matter if you're watching a good example or a bad example; if you don't like it you're not gonna like it regardless, so your opinion on the matter is limited in it's value. So for what it was Kerwin White was not a bad gimmick. Chavo played it really well, and it could not have been done any better for what it was. Kerwin was never gonna main even WrestleMania... but then neither is Chavo, is he? While I generally agree with your premise.... no bad gimmicks...ever? Come on if it wasn't for bad gimmicks we wouldn't be here, this board and website wouldn't exist. The blue blazer didn't work because of Owen? Terry Taylor' fault about the red rooster? THE GOBBEBLY GOOKER WAS HECTOR GUERRERO SR.'S FAULT? I could go on with this (Farooq, Max Moon, REPO MAN) and yes, the wrestler makes a huge difference, but come on..sometimes creative teams just come up with horrible ideas for good workers.
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Post by hutter on Dec 27, 2007 5:53:43 GMT -5
I liked the Kerwin White gimmick. At least Chavo Jr. was interesting, for once.
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Post by SWH - Shane Hero on Dec 27, 2007 7:34:07 GMT -5
While I generally agree with your premise.... no bad gimmicks...ever? Come on if it wasn't for bad gimmicks we wouldn't be here, this board and website wouldn't exist. The blue blazer didn't work because of Owen? Terry Taylor' fault about the red rooster? THE GOBBEBLY GOOKER WAS HECTOR GUERRERO SR.'S FAULT? I could go on with this (Farooq, Max Moon, REPO MAN) and yes, the wrestler makes a huge difference, but come on..sometimes creative teams just come up with horrible ideas for good workers. Okay, for the most part I believe that MOST gimmicks in and of themself, are not bad. I don't think the Gooker could ever have gotten over, regardless of who played it. And no sane person would cheer a guy dressing as Max Moon did. Yes, sometimes bookers do invent utter crap. But I honestly believe that almost any character can work, as long as the right person is playing it. And that's the difference between a good booker and a bad booker, as you shouldn't be giving comedy gimmicks to people who can't do it. You shouldn't give bad-ass gimmicks to guys that can't pull it off. And you shouldn't be employing useless lumps incapable of doing at least one gimmick well. Where most gimmicks fall down is that the guy playing the part doesn't pull it off well, or you have the gimmick being booked in stupid vignets or stupid matches. I believe in this case, Chavo played Kerwin White really well.
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