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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 15, 2007 19:37:51 GMT -5
I'd say Goldberg was a heel at this point. Didn't he steal Mongo's Super Bowl ring? Depends on your point of view. I've also heard Debra gave it to him. I remember at the time Debra was managing Alex Wright against Mongo at the ppv beforehand. She bribed Goldberg to cost Mongo the match by promising the Super Bowl ring. After Wright won, Goldy speared him |
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Post by Brick Killed a Guy on Sept 15, 2007 21:11:37 GMT -5
This was around the time I started going on wrestling websites and IWC chat rooms.
Personally, what disappointed me the most was that the small rumors that Sting would come out with his old music and gimmick (multi-colored face paint, bright colored tights, etc.)
Several parts of the PPV turned out to be disappointing.
-- Bret Hart coming back to be special guest referee instead of competing
-- Giant/Kevin Nash match never happens, instead we just get Giant beating up Scott Hall.
-- and of course, the ending to the main event.
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Post by tankmcquade on Sept 16, 2007 2:09:23 GMT -5
I did not see the PPV but I remember my friends coming to school the next day talking about Hogan being the worst ever and that the match was completely smurfed up. Later on when i had a chance to view it myself, I pretty much agreed. Damn, almost 10 years......time sure flies by.
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Post by chibidiablo on Sept 16, 2007 4:30:47 GMT -5
This whole PPV was a disaster. Heels winning left and right, killing a large chunk of the crowd enthusiasm, knowingly false advertising Raven vs. Benoit (how hard would it have been PRIOR to the event for Raven to be a chickencrap heel and claim he wouldn't be on the card due to an injury?), the multi-million dollar WWF champion who had just been involved in the most talked about finish in history being booked as A REFEREE FOR A BISCHOFF VS. ZBYSZKO MATCH, the botched booking of Hogan vs. Sting, this show was offensive to the viewer on so many levels. An astronomical failure of epic proportions. Oh, and I almost forgot about that class act Kevin Nash no-showing the PPV. Lisajennifer: typing my thoughts so I don't have to |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Sept 16, 2007 6:45:32 GMT -5
This was around the time I started going on wrestling websites and IWC chat rooms. Personally, what disappointed me the most was that the small rumors that Sting would come out with his old music and gimmick (multi-colored face paint, bright colored tights, etc.) Several parts of the PPV turned out to be disappointing. -- Bret Hart coming back to be special guest referee instead of competing -- Giant/Kevin Nash match never happens, instead we just get Giant beating up Scott Hall. -- and of course, the ending to the main event. I thought for some reason that Sting would go back to his old attire also after he got what he wanted, but it didn't happen sadly. The only part that I was really upset with was Nash no-showing as I heard he was to job to the Giant, but didn't want to do it. Don't think it was that bad, but of course it's a fool's errand to try and defend it online here. |
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Post by maxx420 on Sept 16, 2007 7:26:07 GMT -5
This was around the time I started going on wrestling websites and IWC chat rooms. Personally, what disappointed me the most was that the small rumors that Sting would come out with his old music and gimmick (multi-colored face paint, bright colored tights, etc.) Several parts of the PPV turned out to be disappointing. -- Bret Hart coming back to be special guest referee instead of competing -- Giant/Kevin Nash match never happens, instead we just get Giant beating up Scott Hall. -- and of course, the ending to the main event. I thought for some reason that Sting would go back to his old attire also after he got what he wanted, but it didn't happen sadly. The only part that I was really upset with was Nash no-showing as I heard he was to job to the Giant, but didn't want to do it. Don't think it was that bad, but of course it's a fool's errand to try and defend it online here. The PPV as a whole is not something I have a problem with, but the screwed up finish to the main event kind of killed everything. After about a year & a half of Sting lurking in the rafters he finally gets to tackle nWo kingpin Hollywood Hogan, then Nick Patrick screws up, counts slow instead of fast & Bret Hart restarts the match... Basically, it seemed like Mega-Heel Hogan was unjustly shafted out of the title.  |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Sept 16, 2007 7:27:08 GMT -5
I thought for some reason that Sting would go back to his old attire also after he got what he wanted, but it didn't happen sadly. The only part that I was really upset with was Nash no-showing as I heard he was to job to the Giant, but didn't want to do it. Don't think it was that bad, but of course it's a fool's errand to try and defend it online here. The PPV as a whole is not something I have a problem with, but the screwed up finish to the main event kind of killed everything. After about a year & a half of Sting lurking in the rafters he finally gets to tackle nWo kingpin Hollywood Hogan, then Nick Patrick screws up, counts slow instead of fast & Bret Hart restarts the match... Basically, it seemed like Mega-Heel Hogan was unjustly shafted out of the title. I'll agree on that count as my friends and I were like Hogan won the match clean and got screwed, by Bret Hart no less,lol. But the PPV wasn't as bad as others are making it out to be. I enjoyed it. |
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 16, 2007 7:32:10 GMT -5
Don't think it was that bad, but of course it's a fool's errand to try and defend it online here. No, you're right. Starrcade '97 wasn't that bad. I was 16, my dad ordered it, my friends came over, Sting beat Hogan, Bret was great in his role getting huge pops in the arena and in our den. We all had a good time. Kevin Nash not wrestling The Giant wasn't a disappointment. In hindsight the Scott Hall/Giant interaction was better than any Nash/Giant match could've been. And people complaining about Raven not wrestling are missing the point that Raven always refused to wrestle in a kayfabe sense during that time, so it made complete sense, especially if he was injured. Maybe we were just blind marks then, but nobody I knew was disappointed with the PPV. It was a solid, big show. It wasn't exactly "too sweet", but it was pretty sweet. Sometimes I think that a lot of people who complain about Starrcade '97 didn't even watch it live. As a WCW fan since I first started watching the Crockett WTBS shows in 1986, I've had roughly 500 worse experiences with their product. When NWA/WCW was good, it was very good. When it was bad, it was terrible. Starrcade '97 wasn't terrible. The show was in no way "the biggest letdown in wrestling history". Not even close. |
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Post by willywonka666 on Sept 16, 2007 7:34:13 GMT -5
I didn't think it was that bad at the time, but really it was f***ed up. I know they were working on short notice with Bret and the screwjob, but yea, they coulda done something better with him. Here was another ex WWF employee, and they coulda done something really wild with him coming in. Wonder how the rating were for the rematch on Nitro?
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Sept 16, 2007 7:34:34 GMT -5
Don't think it was that bad, but of course it's a fool's errand to try and defend it online here. No, you're right. Starrcade '97 wasn't that bad. I was 16, my dad ordered it, my friends came over, Sting beat Hogan, Bret was great in his role getting huge pops in the arena and in our den. We all had a good time. Kevin Nash not wrestling The Giant wasn't a disappointment. In hindsight the Scott Hall/Giant interaction was better than any Nash/Giant match could've been. And people complaining about Raven not wrestling are missing the point that Raven always refused to wrestle in a kayfabe sense during that time, so it made complete sense, especially if he was injured. Maybe we were just blind marks then, but nobody I knew was disappointed with the PPV. It was a solid, big show. It wasn't exactly "too sweet", but it was pretty sweet. Sometimes I think that a lot of people who complain about Starrcade '97 didn't even watch it live. As a WCW fan since I first started watching the Crockett WTBS shows in 1986, I've had roughly 500 worse experiences with their product. When NWA/WCW was good, it was very good. When it was bad, it was terrible. Starrcade '97 wasn't terrible. The show was in no way "the biggest letdown in wrestling history". Not even close. I'd be inclined to agree, in my opinion I thought the "beginning of the end" as some put it was when Thunder first came out, seemed like overkill to me and as Bischoff mentioned on the recent Wrestling Roundtable on WWE 24/7, he didn't want it either as it was a decision made by Harvey Schiller I think. |
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Post by willywonka666 on Sept 16, 2007 7:41:43 GMT -5
No, you're right. Starrcade '97 wasn't that bad. I was 16, my dad ordered it, my friends came over, Sting beat Hogan, Bret was great in his role getting huge pops in the arena and in our den. We all had a good time. Kevin Nash not wrestling The Giant wasn't a disappointment. In hindsight the Scott Hall/Giant interaction was better than any Nash/Giant match could've been. And people complaining about Raven not wrestling are missing the point that Raven always refused to wrestle in a kayfabe sense during that time, so it made complete sense, especially if he was injured. Maybe we were just blind marks then, but nobody I knew was disappointed with the PPV. It was a solid, big show. It wasn't exactly "too sweet", but it was pretty sweet. Sometimes I think that a lot of people who complain about Starrcade '97 didn't even watch it live. As a WCW fan since I first started watching the Crockett WTBS shows in 1986, I've had roughly 500 worse experiences with their product. When NWA/WCW was good, it was very good. When it was bad, it was terrible. Starrcade '97 wasn't terrible. The show was in no way "the biggest letdown in wrestling history". Not even close. I'd be inclined to agree, in my opinion I thought the "beginning of the end" as some put it was when Thunder first came out, seemed like overkill to me and as Bischoff mentioned on the recent Wrestling Roundtable on WWE 24/7, he didn't want it either as it was a decision made by Harvey Schiller I think. Thunder was good for awhile, then it became a B show like smackdown. It was a bit much, but at least wrestling was big at the time |
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Post by angryfan on Sept 16, 2007 7:53:47 GMT -5
I didn't think it was that bad at the time, but really it was smurfed up. I know they were working on short notice with Bret and the screwjob, but yea, they coulda done something better with him. Here was another ex WWF employee, and they coulda done something really wild with him coming in. Wonder how the rating were for the rematch on Nitro? The Nitro prior did a 3.5 cable rating, with the December 29 show pulling in a 4.6. The ratings stayed above 4 until May 8, 1998 when they dropped to 3.5. I'll go ahead and attribute the ratings drop to the fact that both Scott Putski and Van Hammer had matches on the show, with both winning, beating Kidman and Saturn respectively. I actually enjoyed much of the card that night, but I did have a problem with the fact that the two matches they put the most attention on (Bischoff/Larry and Hogan/Sting) were the two that came off as just plain not good. I can forgive some on the part of the Bischoff match, but Hugan/Sting was all kinds of anticlimactic. |
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 16, 2007 8:22:19 GMT -5
To me, aside from "Thunder", the beginnings of the end of WCW were...
1) Bret Hart, non-character.
After Survivor Series '97, people really cared about Bret Hart. They cared so much that Hart's first major WCW match against Flair over the issue of "Who really is the best there ever is, was, or will be?" drew a great buyrate. Bret should've been kept as a separate entity from WCW/NWO's feud, and made a strong player. When your competition screws over a guy and the public has compassion for him, you present him strongly. However, WCW didn't know what to do with him, aligned him with Hogan, and ruined his drawing power.
2) When Sean Waltman debuted in WWF.
As crazy as this sounds now, back then, it felt like Syxx-Pac getting fired/jumping to WWF added an NWO-stamp of approval to not only DX, but a stronger WWF coming right off of a hot Wrestlemania (w/Tyson, and an anointed Stone Cold). Pretty sure that Waltman debuted with a heated shoot the night after. For me, the Hunter, X-Pac, New Age Outlaws version (initially) was way cooler than HBK, HHH, and Chyna. After Waltman came over, DX & WWF attacked WCW with more credibility with the kids than Vince doing "Billionaire Ted/Huckster skits or Jim Cornette whining in a RAW shoot about Hall, Nash, and Hogan. Plus, firing Waltman was the point when Hall & Nash got pissed off at Bischoff and stopped caring, stopped trying to do a good job, and were only there to collect a paycheck.
3) Warrior.
I knew tons of die-hard WWF fans that were excited about Warrior's WCW debut for some reason, and even ordered Fall Brawl '97, which was a debacle from top to bottom. They were so put off and embarrassed by Fall Brawl that they didn't even care about Hogan/Warrior at Havoc. By then, WCW was so bad, there was no turning back.
"The Fingerpoke of Doom" may have been the Death of WCW, but it was only the final nail. There were so many other brutal mistakes made in 1998 WCW (suing Flair and keeping him off TV, 10 hours of weekly TV, the Goldberg/Hogan hot shot on free TV, Sting joining NWO red, Hall turning on Nash, Jay Leno, a hot face Savage tearing his knee and missing a year, Wolfpac/Black&White feud with no payoff).
That entire year of prominent awfulness (against a hot WWF product) killed people caring about WCW far more than seven Starrcade '97s, Russo, or David Arquette ever could have.
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