Jesse Ventura sure is a hypocrite....

[Red Impact]

kiddobradley said:

I meant wrestling wise.

For a union to work, you'd have to get some REALLY big names.

Well, yeah, I knew you were talking about in regards to wrestling, but a few things are fairly common in unions in general, namely that management has to deal with them in certain ways by law.

It doesn't seem hard at all to replace talent now, so I'm not really seeing how it would be easier to replace union workers. If the union offered no job security to the performers, then it really wouldn't be a good union to begin with. For it to work, it wouldn't necessarily require the big main eventers. If the vast majority of all undercard talent joined, the promotions would be forced to deal with them anyways. I also tend to think that, if it got up, rolling, and accepted that the big names would eventually join.

[Mozenrath]

Well, in entertainment, it's not too tough to get around guilds.

[Red Impact]

kiddobradley said:

Well, in entertainment, it's not too tough to get around guilds.

For major performers, yes, since they tend to operate primarily separately. For everyone else, not really. It sounds like any union would be partly to help negotiations and ensure that the performers don't waste money. The support staff would benefit as would the undercard performers.

[HRH The KING]

In Hogan's book, I think he said that sunglasses, feather boas, and headbands never existed until he invented them.

[willywonka666]

The Jesse we saw on tv, wasn't too far off from the real guy from what I've hear, even the clothing he sometimes wore outside of wrestling

[AriadosMan]

There's no chance of McMahon allowing a wrestlers' union while the Writer's Strike is going on. It basically ensured that ECW (a non-union program) got a renewal that it wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

[Turd Ferguson]

Mankind's Union?

[Deleted]

maxx420 said:

Heck, Sergeant Slaughter was fired by the WWF for wanting to start a union in the '80s!

Reading transcripts of all the crap that John Cena parroted to Larry King about why there shouldn't be a union is sickening.

Why because he doesn't believe in socialism?

[Deleted]

maxx420 said:

kiddobradley said:

What did he say?

I think before we get too harsh on him, we do need the perspective that he's in the business, and has his opinions on it for a reason.

He just really outright dismissed the idea of a wrestler's union.
"Guys getting into this business know what they're getting into".
It's alright for a man who's been on top of WWE for nearly three years & has made money from a CD, a movie & royalty from all his merchandise on top of his seven figure wrestling salary, but what about the lower-tier guys on $100,00 a year? Don't they deserve the opportunity for some benefits?

Because $100, 000 a year is chump change. No one making that meager of a salary could ever afford private insurance.

[respectmeordye3]

hrhtheking said:

In Hogan's book, I think he said that sunglasses, feather boas, and headbands never existed until he invented them.

I doubt that--I have his book and I can't remember him even bringing Ventura up.

[Wheresmy5bucks]

respectmeordye3 said:

hrhtheking said:

In Hogan's book, I think he said that sunglasses, feather boas, and headbands never existed until he invented them.

I doubt that--I have his book and I can't remember him even bringing Ventura up.

Because he never invented your ability to recall it, obviously.

[uncleslam]

thesunbeast said:

Before this turns into hogan hate, I need to say that Hogan has rarely taken the liberty to openly blast someone, even when talking about guys he dosen't really like.

I guess you've never heard him on Bubba the Love Sponge.

[Mr. Mediocre]

uncleslam said:

thesunbeast said:

Before this turns into hogan hate, I need to say that Hogan has rarely taken the liberty to openly blast someone, even when talking about guys he dosen't really like.

I guess you've never heard him on Bubba the Love Sponge.

Yeah...the way he used to talk about Billy Kidman was nothing short of disgraceful.

[HMARK Center]

brentreznor said:

maxx420 said:

He just really outright dismissed the idea of a wrestler's union.
"Guys getting into this business know what they're getting into".
It's alright for a man who's been on top of WWE for nearly three years & has made money from a CD, a movie & royalty from all his merchandise on top of his seven figure wrestling salary, but what about the lower-tier guys on $100,00 a year? Don't they deserve the opportunity for some benefits?

Because $100, 000 a year is chump change. No one making that meager of a salary could ever afford private insurance.

Get rid of the rolly eyes, because you're right.

Sure, you can live, but not exceedingly well, given that WWE talent pays for it's own accomadations and vehicle rentals most of the time when on the road. That's a hefty chunk, and that's even before taxes.

When you add in the need for individually bought health insurance, it takes an even bigger hit. Add in if a wrestler actually wants to start a family, and suddenly that salary isn't through the roof.

There's a big difference between making $100,000 sitting behind a desk and making $100,000 while paying for your own travel expenses and private insurance. That's the kind of money that, God forbid you get injured, you'll be out in the lurch the second you stop working.

[tap]

I've always wondered if a wrestling union would lead to talent asking for pushes because of seniority. Would Bob Holly or the Brawler be able to ask for a title run because they've been around so long? I highly doubt it, but something I considered. Obviously health benefits, safe working environments, equitable treatment and opportunity should be key tenets of a wrestling union, since they aren't really guarantees already in the business, but I've always wondered how seniority would play into a wrestling union.

[Deleted]

The only people that would benefit from a union would be the lower-card and jobbers. The rest of the wrestlers, the WWE, and the fans would all suffer.

Anytime WWE wanted to release a wrestler for not getting over and not being that good, they would have to go through the union.

It would be harder for indy workers to get signed, because WWE would have money tied up in workers it would be forced to pay.

The fans would have to pay more in ticket prices, PPVs etc. To pay for the higher salaries and insurance. In addition to having to watch a product full of complacent workers who were locked into employment.

Having health insurance tied to employment. Means once you get fired, you have no more insurance. What good does that do a guy once he's on the indy scene, making 1/10 the salary?

[HMARK Center]

brentreznor said:

The only people that would benefit from a union would be the lower-card and jobbers. The rest of the wrestlers, the WWE, and the fans would all suffer.

Anytime WWE wanted to release a wrestler for not getting over and not being that good, they would have to go through the union.

It would be harder for indy workers to get signed, because WWE would have money tied up in workers it would be forced to pay.

The fans would have to pay more in ticket prices, PPVs etc. To pay for the higher salaries and insurance. In addition to having to watch a product full of complacent workers who were locked into employment.

Having health insurance tied to employment. Means once you get fired, you have no more insurance. What good does that do a guy once he's on the indy scene, making 1/10 the salary?

But this is worse than the current status, where wrestlers are basically unprotected? I'll deal with paying a few extra bucks.

And if you can have insurance tied with employment, it's a LOT better than having to pay out of pocket for it, especially since health insurance for wrestlers does NOT come cheaply.

Having a union would certainly change a lot of things relating to the inner workings of the industry, sure, but wrestling is so hideously behind the times in terms of taking care of it's employees, something really has to be done about it. The carnival days have been over since the early 1900's, but the business practices remain arcane.

[Nice Guy Cody]

respectmeordye3 said:

hrhtheking said:

In Hogan's book, I think he said that sunglasses, feather boas, and headbands never existed until he invented them.

I doubt that--I have his book and I can't remember him even bringing Ventura up.

No offense, but you're just forgetting then. He brings him up a couple of times, accuses him of being a big coke head and a few other hypocritical accusations.

[Powder/The Professor]

kiddobradley said:

He blatantly stole his look from Superstar Billy Graham.

AMEN!. That is why to me and my friends, I call Jesse Ventura....Jesse 'The Superstar, Body'. Ventura". He can bitch all he wants about Hogan 'stealing' his gimmick.......iIt was Graham's first!. I like, respect and appreciate what Ventura has accomplished but he owes his ass to "Superstar" Billy Graham and Gorgeous George. End of story.

[Deleted]

hitmanmark said:

brentreznor said:

The only people that would benefit from a union would be the lower-card and jobbers. The rest of the wrestlers, the WWE, and the fans would all suffer.

Anytime WWE wanted to release a wrestler for not getting over and not being that good, they would have to go through the union.

It would be harder for indy workers to get signed, because WWE would have money tied up in workers it would be forced to pay.

The fans would have to pay more in ticket prices, PPVs etc. To pay for the higher salaries and insurance. In addition to having to watch a product full of complacent workers who were locked into employment.

Having health insurance tied to employment. Means once you get fired, you have no more insurance. What good does that do a guy once he's on the indy scene, making 1/10 the salary?

But this is worse than the current status, where wrestlers are basically unprotected? I'll deal with paying a few extra bucks.

And if you can have insurance tied with employment, it's a LOT better than having to pay out of pocket for it, especially since health insurance for wrestlers does NOT come cheaply.

Having a union would certainly change a lot of things relating to the inner workings of the industry, sure, but wrestling is so hideously behind the times in terms of taking care of it's employees, something really has to be done about it. The carnival days have been over since the early 1900's, but the business practices remain arcane.

What's the difference if you're making $100 000 and have insurance, or making $125 000 with no insurance?

It's all the same in the end, only the guy making $125 000 has a choice on what he wants to do with the extra $25 000 he makes. The other guy is having the choice made for him.

When does an employer have an obligation to take care of his employees? My boss certainly doesn't take care of me. I provide a service, he pays me, then it's up to me to live my life.

If I decide to buy crack instead of pay my rent, he can't help me when I end up homeless.