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Post by nerdinitupagain on Nov 13, 2007 13:56:26 GMT -5
I remember when he debuted in ECW, in fact I was there. I was there for most of his early ECW stuff and he was far from a botchfest. I don't even remember him botching at all. It wasn't until later on when he started doing the chair vaulting and springboard stuff that he botched all the time. True. Springboards are easy to botch. Carlito gets tons of crap for springboarding, but to his credit, I've never seen him botch it. I remember a match with RVD where he did some amazing springboard corkscrew. Too bad the guy hates his job and isn't trying anymore |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 13, 2007 14:02:14 GMT -5
True. Springboards are easy to botch. Carlito gets tons of crap for springboarding, but to his credit, I've never seen him botch it. I remember a match with RVD where he did some amazing springboard corkscrew. Too bad the guy hates his job and isn't trying anymore I think he just needs some change of pace. A fresh feud or a move to Smackdown. |
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Nov 13, 2007 22:34:13 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Sabu, but from what I've heard ... pretty much all of his spots were done on the fly. Meaning that he didn't think, he just DID them out of nowhere with no previous planning.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 13, 2007 23:25:42 GMT -5
If you take Sabu and delete most of the botches, don't you end up with Hayabusa?
(I said MOST.)
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Nov 14, 2007 4:59:27 GMT -5
Back in the day, like 1992-93, the old news letters I've seen used to speak of Sabu, Cactus Jack, and Sean Waltman (well, The Lightning Kid) in the same 100% glowing, do-no-wrong tones as the IWC and newz reporters currently speak of Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, The Briscoes, and KENTA. Really. Looking back, you'd think that younger Sabu would've had the reputation closer to Teddy Hart, but everyone seemed to praise his ability, and think he was actually the future, not just a spot monkey.
You've got to remember, Sabu was so different than anything else going on, he was a pretty big deal to smarks (in a good way). As he got older, his high-risk style became a caricature of itself, and he's as synonymous with missing the big spots as he is actually hitting them. And he "botched"/missed a ton of moves back then, too, but those were usually on purpose to reverse the momentum of the match...not because his knees hurt and he slipped on the rope.
And that Sabu-Scorpio match from '96 is pretty awesome. Nary a botch. I know this will sound insane, but I think Sabu's a far better ring technician and ring psychologist than he gets credit for. The stuff he tries in the ring is absolutely ridiculous, but he's worked so hard on his character, that everything he does is 100% believable (no matter how ludicrous).
Plus, he's one of the top sellers of all-time...and probably because he's usually in legitimate pain.
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Post by Mercyful Fate on Nov 14, 2007 5:33:50 GMT -5
I remember when he debuted in ECW, in fact I was there. I was there for most of his early ECW stuff and he was far from a botchfest. I don't even remember him botching at all. It wasn't until later on when he started doing the chair vaulting and springboard stuff that he botched all the time. True. Springboards are easy to botch. Carlito gets tons of crap for springboarding, but to his credit, I've never seen him botch it. I think you're overlooking that Carlito moves in slow motion when he springboards. |
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Post by I Graduated Warrior University on Nov 14, 2007 6:11:28 GMT -5
I know this will sound insane, but I think Sabu's a far better ring technician and ring psychologist than he gets credit for. Yep, I remember his match at Guilty as Charged (I wanna say 2000) against RVD. It started off with some great counter based wrestling (like an RVD Jerry Lynn match) before turning into their usual bats*** crazy type of match. |
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 14, 2007 8:53:25 GMT -5
True. Springboards are easy to botch. Carlito gets tons of crap for springboarding, but to his credit, I've never seen him botch it. I think you're overlooking that Carlito moves in slow motion when he springboards. To be fair, he's probably just not looking to be the next Hayabusa in all the wrong ways. WWE uses ring ropes, while most indies that focus on high flying use cables. BIG difference. |
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