El Dandy
Don Corleone
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
Posts: 1,901
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Post by El Dandy on Nov 27, 2007 14:39:01 GMT -5
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hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
Posts: 11,122
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Post by hollywood on Nov 27, 2007 15:02:59 GMT -5
Here I'm going to disagree, but only a little. Hogan was definitely the driving force behind the 80's boom period (I'm assuming that's the "first" you're talking about), but I don't think he deserve full credit for the late 90's boom. He was certainly a big part of it, but I think several people were behind that driving force along with him. Oh i Know there were people around him I was switching between driving force and at the forefront of. Driving force just makes for a stronger arguement. STUPID ENGLISH You still cannot deny his importance as both the biggest face and heel of the two boom periods. There's absolutely no question he was the biggest. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and the Rock certainly gave him a run for his money, but he's still definitely the biggest face/heel of both periods.
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Post by humorousled on Nov 27, 2007 15:05:58 GMT -5
Hogan as a heel was the best ever because unlike modern heels like Triple H, Orton, and Edge, Hogan as a heel came across as pure evil. Hogan as a heel was dark, dramatic, and very serious. He could drive the crowd crazy with his egotical rantings and his claims of Godhood. His proclaimations that there are millions of NWOites who worshiped Hogan as God drove me crazy because I knew that he had no fans and that he had to burn in hell. The point of the NWO was that Hogan was God and it was the duty of all members of the NWO and all NWO fans to insure that he would be champion for all of eternity. Hogan was like an evil dictator and the NWO was wrestling's answer to facism. Those promos and commercials were like propoganda that would be used by dictatorships to retain power. Hogan as a heel was the most evil heel of all time and the NWO was the most evil group in the history of the sport.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 27, 2007 15:08:19 GMT -5
that's exactly why i loved the nWo eventually because they were just too SWEEEEEEEEEEET
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Post by Arthur Digby Stamp on Nov 27, 2007 15:49:49 GMT -5
It seems like as time passes, less and less guys "get it". Everybody wants to be all cool and badass, regardless of whether they're face or heel. Hollywood Hogan was an amazing heel, simply due to the fact that there was absolutely nothing redeemable about the character at all. He'd cheat every chance he could, and then lie about everything that happened the next night.
Even when the nWo as a whole was becoming more popular then WCW, Hogan was still getting drinks thrown at him and booed out of the building.
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Post by Count Creepyhead on Nov 27, 2007 17:42:27 GMT -5
totally agree, Best Heel, Best face ever.
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Post by hobo on Nov 27, 2007 18:27:46 GMT -5
I do think he was initially the driving force. I knew guys (including my brother) who hadn't watched or thought about wrestling in five to seven years, and when they heard, "Hogan's a bad guy!" THAT is what made them tune in for the first time. That's what got me watching WCW in 1996. I had watched WWF when I was younger, but got tired of it by the early 90s. I was in middle school and a friend of mine who was a fan told me that Hogan turned heel, and I had to watch. Hollywood Hogan was a great heel. Not the best, but one of the top five. I'm talking about the 1996-1997 Hogan. Even as other nWo members started getting face pops, the crowd never stopped hating Hogan. HOWEVER, by 1998 Hollywood Hogan was starting to wear thin. He had been on top for almost two years, his act was getting stale, and the botched Starrcade ending with Sting didn't help one bit. So if you're only talking Hollywood Hogan from 1996-1997, definite contender for best heel ever. But not if you're counting his entire heel run (which lasted until 1999 or 2000 maybe?)
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Nov 27, 2007 18:43:58 GMT -5
"When you're with Hollywood Hogan you know that THIS is where the power lies" "Theres a pecking order in the NWO..."
I loved it every second he had the mic brother
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Post by Adam Pacman Khan (akkilla) on Nov 27, 2007 19:17:14 GMT -5
Meh he was great, but not the best ever. If he was the best ever he could have held on in WCW's dying years.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 27, 2007 19:29:09 GMT -5
With Russo and Sullivan booking his character the way they did, he did have creative control, but what did have to work with sucked.
Though I did like Terry Bollea era. WHere just powerbombed everybody.
Heel heat dies out, it turns into pops, or it turns into apathy. For Hogan to turn face, heel, then face, then tweenr so quickly. I don't know how but Russo and Sullivan did the impossible. They killed HULK HOGAN's heat.
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Post by skillz on Nov 27, 2007 20:10:57 GMT -5
I do think he was initially the driving force. I knew guys (including my brother) who hadn't watched or thought about wrestling in five to seven years, and when they heard, "Hogan's a bad guy!" THAT is what made them tune in for the first time. I was the lone reluctant holdout, "Wrestling sucks, it's for little kids!" But Hogan was what made them actually watch the first show. I agree with this completely, because I'm a walking example of it. I quit watching wrestling by late-95/early-96. I didn't get TBS/TNT in Canada, and Shawn being the #1 guy in the WWF was vomit-enducing for me. Then I heard Hogan turned heel, and my interest in wrestling peaked again almost instantly. I was a Hulkamaniac from 1985-onwards, and it was almost surreal to see him as a maniacal heel. That's what drove me to WCW. The nWo was really the birth of the late-90's boom period. It completely changed the face/heel dynamic in wrestling. The cool heel/tweener/anti-hero became popular, and that originated when Hogan dropped the Leg on Savage at Bash at the Beach. You could argue it started first with Hall and Nash invading, but Hogan being the 3rd guy put it over the top. Towards the end of 1996, you slowly started to see that in the WWF as Austin was getting cheered, while Shawn was getting pissed on at MSG against Sid.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 27, 2007 22:04:04 GMT -5
That's exactly it; the nWo drove on the evolution of wrestling characters. It took established names we already new (Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Luger, Sting), and suddenly altered the course their characters were on. Hogan was the egomaniacal heel, Nash and Hall were the "too cool for school" heels, and Sting/Luger/Savage went from do-gooders to various levels of "dark hero" (although Savage had always had something of a maniacal edge to his character, but you get my point).
It was definitely the knowledge that Hogan was heel that got me back into wrestling. Unfortunately, I didn't get back into it until 1998, so I missed the glory days of WCW and, in WWF, Bret vs. Austin.
That said, I make no apologies for the fact that I grew up a Hulkamaniac, and by 1998 I became a Hollywood Hogan disciple. He was THE MAN, and since I hadn't been watching from 1996-1997, his heel act hadn't worn thin on me yet.
When he teamed up with Bret, it was like a dream come true; my two all time favorites at that time as a team? A thing of beauty. Too bad WCW couldn't make something truly great from all of it after 1997.
And here's what I'd argue about Hogan's ring work; yes, Hogan has always "gotten it". He always knew how to play a crowd, how to emote, etc. etc., and he deserves a lot of praise for it.
However, if Hogan had been a bit more versatile in the ring, I think it could've helped prolong his main event run by the late 90's. Fact is, his work had just grown too repetitive in a lot of ways due to his limited variety of actions. I'm not knocking him for it, as he worked fantastically with what he had, but having a great character is half of the equation; the ring work is the other half, and Hogan's wasn't strong enough to sustain being a main event player on weekly television and monthly pay per views for years at a stretch.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2007 22:30:12 GMT -5
Has ever a theme song ever fit a wrestler better than "Voodoo Child" for Hollywood Hogan?
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mainsupreme
Unicron
World Wildlife Entertainment
Posts: 3,463
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Post by mainsupreme on Nov 28, 2007 7:44:08 GMT -5
The point that was earlier was very valid. Modern Heels are liked by some parts of the crowd because they are cocky/cool. Hogan was 100% evil. The million dollar man and Jake the snake were very good heels in the cartoon era of the 80's. Hogan was so hated in the 90's boom ppl actually threw drinks and garbage at him.
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mainsupreme
Unicron
World Wildlife Entertainment
Posts: 3,463
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Post by mainsupreme on Nov 28, 2007 8:16:22 GMT -5
Hogan as a heel was the best ever because unlike modern heels like Triple H, Orton, and Edge, Hogan as a heel came across as pure evil. Hogan as a heel was dark, dramatic, and very serious. He could drive the crowd crazy with his egotical rantings and his claims of Godhood. His proclaimations that there are millions of NWOites who worshiped Hogan as God drove me crazy because I knew that he had no fans and that he had to burn in hell. The point of the NWO was that Hogan was God and it was the duty of all members of the NWO and all NWO fans to insure that he would be champion for all of eternity. Hogan was like an evil dictator and the NWO was wrestling's answer to facism. Those promos and commercials were like propoganda that would be used by dictatorships to retain power. Hogan as a heel was the most evil heel of all time and the NWO was the most evil group in the history of the sport. very gooid point IMHO
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Post by normcoleman on Nov 28, 2007 11:09:12 GMT -5
Kevin Nash and Scott Hall got cheered in the nWo, Hogan never did. That to me is a great heel.
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Post by skillz on Nov 28, 2007 17:03:34 GMT -5
Kevin Nash and Scott Hall got cheered in the nWo, Hogan never did. That to me is a great heel. That was the difference in that era. Hall and Nash wanted to be cool heels. Similar to the Rock in the sense that they pandered to the crowd despite being the villans. They were great at it. Hogan however, as mentioned already, was an old school rambling "make them throw debris in the ring" type of heel, and that's why it worked for him. Hogan was around for a long time, and knew how to get that type of heat. Hall and Nash were more of the new generation heels.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 28, 2007 17:47:45 GMT -5
Nash was already a cool heel when he was leaving WWE, and Hall was always oozing machismo.
It's the way their characters worked.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 28, 2007 20:54:52 GMT -5
Nash was already a cool heel when he was leaving WWE, and Hall was always oozing machismo. It's the way their characters worked. Yeah, I don't think most of us are bashing them for it (far from it, at least for me), but I could see why some people would prefer the "Hogan-style" heel work of that era.
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Post by skillz on Nov 28, 2007 21:28:17 GMT -5
Nash was already a cool heel when he was leaving WWE, and Hall was always oozing machismo. It's the way their characters worked. That's true. I'm not saying it was a bad thing, just a good contrast between two types of heels. Hall and Nash were the type of heels that wanted the fans to cheer them, and that's generally how the late-90's worked. Hogan wanted to be the most hated guy in the world. That was the main difference between their respective styles. It worked for everyone involved.
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