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Post by tmc1982 on Jan 6, 2009 3:19:05 GMT -5
At least according to Gary Kurtz, who was a producer for George Lucas' early films (including the "New Hope" and "Empire Strikes Back" episodes of "Star Wars"). Basically, Kurtz was "let go" after "Empire Strikes BacK", when he clashed with Lucas about the production of "Return of the Jedi". In a nutshell, after the release of the first Indiana Jones movie in 1981, Lucas decided that the story could go hang because all the audience really cared about was the thrill and the action. So in return, Lucas threw out his old notes, as well as his nine-episode bible. Meanwhile, Gary Kurtz departed as soon as he complained about the direction. I don't know if you know the background, but for most of George Lucas' early films (including 'New Hope' and 'Empire') he worked with the producer Gary Kurtz. Kurtz was... uh... let go after 'Empire' when he clashed with Lucas about the production of 'Return'. Basically, after releasing the first Indiana Jones movie, Lucas decided the story could go hang because all the audience cared about was the thrill and the action. So he threw out his old notes and his nine-episode bible... and he got rid of Kurtz when he complained. There's a pretty interesting interview with Kurtz here, about his whole career: uk.movies.ign.com/articles/376/376873p2.htmlBut if you only want the relevant things then here's a MUCH shorter summary: filmchatblog.blogspot.com/2005/05/why-i-do-not-consider-star-wars.html |
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Post by Back to being Cenanuff on Jan 6, 2009 7:20:22 GMT -5
I gotta get to work, but this thread is relevant to my interests. Could someone with the time summarize for me pweeeeeeze?
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Rube
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Post by Rube on Jan 6, 2009 7:59:34 GMT -5
I gotta get to work, but this thread is relevant to my interests. Could someone with the time summarize for me pweeeeeeze? Goerge Lucas is a stupid f***in' hack. I did not click either of the links. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2009 9:22:48 GMT -5
I always liked this one. MAD TV can be utter garbage but this was a fun little skit.
EWW YOU MAKE ME SO MAD JANE PAULEY!!!
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Post by blef on Jan 6, 2009 9:47:31 GMT -5
Kurtz basically says that Han was to die, Leia takes over and leads the Alliance, and Luke just kinda gets left on his own. Also, no Death Star II or Ewoks - Kurtz flat out says the DS2 was there to redo the first movie but with better sfx.
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Jan 6, 2009 10:10:23 GMT -5
Kurtz basically says that Han was to die, Leia takes over and leads the Alliance, and Luke just kinda gets left on his own. Also, no Death Star II or Ewoks - Kurtz flat out says the DS2 was there to redo the first movie but with better sfx. He also says that he felt that Episode 5 had a lot of character depth and subtext that 6 threw away for a roller coaster ride. |
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Jan 6, 2009 10:49:42 GMT -5
Kurtz basically says that Han was to die, Leia takes over and leads the Alliance, and Luke just kinda gets left on his own. Also, no Death Star II or Ewoks - Kurtz flat out says the DS2 was there to redo the first movie but with better sfx. That sounds terrible after a dark second movie, I'd rather have the relatively happy movie we got. |
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Post by VenomFang on Jan 6, 2009 11:31:05 GMT -5
Kurtz basically says that Han was to die, Leia takes over and leads the Alliance, and Luke just kinda gets left on his own. Also, no Death Star II or Ewoks - Kurtz flat out says the DS2 was there to redo the first movie but with better sfx. That sounds terrible after a dark second movie, I'd rather have the relatively happy movie we got. Exactly. I dont know anyone or have met anyone who wanted Han to die. I thought the ROTJ we got was near perfect. The Ewoks ? Ehh they didnt really bother me that much. |
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Post by markdown474 on Jan 6, 2009 11:57:12 GMT -5
That sounds terrible after a dark second movie, I'd rather have the relatively happy movie we got. Exactly. I dont know anyone or have met anyone who wanted Han to die. I thought the ROTJ we got was near perfect. The Ewoks ? Ehh they didnt really bother me that much. Agreed. I never understood all the ROTJ hate and I thought the final battle between Luke/Vader/The Emperor was fantastic. |
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Post by Cyno on Jan 6, 2009 11:58:30 GMT -5
The second link is broken.
I thought the Ewoks were cute. And Return of the Jedi is my favorite movie of the series after Empire, and it's a very close second.
The movie was ultimately about the redemption of Darth Vader through his son and the destruction of the Sith. If Luke was just left there, it'd suck. Han dying also seems like it would've been a pointless death.
I know one of the original ideas for the finale was to have the confrontation between Vader/Palpatine and Luke on the Imperial capital world, then called Had Abbadon (Timothy Zahn established the name "Coruscant" in his Thrawn trilogy of books), which was guarded by multiple Death Stars or something.
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Post by blef on Jan 6, 2009 12:04:17 GMT -5
Kurtz basically says that Han was to die, Leia takes over and leads the Alliance, and Luke just kinda gets left on his own. Also, no Death Star II or Ewoks - Kurtz flat out says the DS2 was there to redo the first movie but with better sfx. That sounds terrible after a dark second movie, I'd rather have the relatively happy movie we got. According to Kurtz, Lucas threw the "9 episode bible" out after ESB and just went with the "happy ending" that ROTJ provided. Had he not done that, we'd have gotten a darker ending - much like ROTS gave us in 2005 - because the story wouldn't have been done yet. |
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Jan 6, 2009 12:17:30 GMT -5
I think ending happily with a trilogy was the best route to go. I think the only real thing that would've made the movie better overall would've been having the wookies on Endor rather than Ewoks.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Jan 6, 2009 15:31:26 GMT -5
This interview is really depressing. Considering what we could have gotten, ouch.
I'm not surprised that Lucas did this, but I am surprised it happened way back then. I love Jedi, but I think what could have been Jedi a masterpiece of sci-fi if the original plan was kept. Sad.
I'm a fan of all the films, but now thinking of what we may have had...ouch. Lucas is really clueless.
I like spectacle, but not at the expense of story.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jan 6, 2009 16:50:22 GMT -5
I love ROTJ the way it is (PRIOR to the DVD version BTW), But Lucas is still an idiot
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 6, 2009 16:54:53 GMT -5
Kurtz did say that the ROTJ ending was going to be happy, just tinged with sadness, as Han dies and Leia has to lead what remains of her people, etc. There's nothing wrong with a bittersweet ending.
Return of the Jedi is an odd film. There are many aspects that are great, but I agree with Kurtz that, as you watch it with a sharper eye, you begin to notice that the subtexts and layers that existed in the first two flicks just really aren't there so much in Jedi. As Kurtz said, it was more of a "What you see is what you get." It still works as a film because you, as a viewer, can still draw on what you've seen and experienced in the first two episodes, but as a stand alone, it can't really hold up the way ESB can.
It's weird reading that even Raiders of the Lost Ark was supposed to be a bit of a deeper film with more character development, but I think that turned out fine, since it was essentially meant to be a pure adventure story nearly from the get-go. It's just sad that it's success was part of what changed George Lucas into the peddler of mediocrity he's known as today.
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Post by Bullhead on Jan 6, 2009 17:08:07 GMT -5
Palpatine's ghost should have appeared at the end of the movie, shaking his fist and screaming "I'll get you next time, Skywalker! NEXT TIME!!!".
Then have Old Anakin walk up to Young Anakin and say "And who the hell are you?".
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spec
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Post by spec on Jan 6, 2009 19:16:07 GMT -5
Palpatine's ghost should have appeared at the end of the movie, shaking his fist and screaming "I'll get you next time, Skywalker! NEXT TIME!!!". Then have Old Anakin walk up to Young Anakin and say "And who the hell are you?". I lmao at this |
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 6, 2009 20:24:21 GMT -5
The 1983 version of ROTJ is excellent. (I DO agree about Death Star II being there just so George could redo the original film's space battle.)
The 2004 DVD version of ROTJ is an abortion.
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Post by Evilution E5150 on Jan 6, 2009 20:37:48 GMT -5
i f***ing hate rotj and the dvd release was even worse, it wasnt even in the same tone as empire, if they had stuck with that version it would have been lot more enjoyable and less muppets
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