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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 1, 2009 12:53:58 GMT -5
Big Show was better. Look at the list of challengers he had going after his belt. RVD, Sabu, Taker, Flair, Batista, Kane, and ext. Then he lost it to Lashley. But Show also Main Evented as ECW Champion on PPV in the three way.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Jan 1, 2009 12:55:11 GMT -5
'Gangsta' Vince didnt give a damn about the ECW title. One promo he forgot he even had it on his shoulder. The ECW title quit being a world title though when Johnny Nitro won it. RVD was automatically legit since he was WWE champ at the same time. Big Show was treated as a main eventer taking on top named talent every week on ECW and feuded with DX while champ. Lashley was pushed to the moon as champ, he damn near squashed Randy Orton one week, feuded with the biggest name in the company (Vince) and was in the most pushed match at Mania 23. When Nitro,Punk, etc became champion, they just feuded within the increasingly depleted ECW roster. With now perennial mid carders like Henry and Matt Hardy getting the belt, it cements that it is a mid card title. Then again, Nitro won the belt because of.... you know what it is by now.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 1, 2009 14:15:58 GMT -5
I'd say it does. Matt is one of the few guys who was Champion who would probably have done well in the original ECW (especially since Paul E. was big on him anyway during his Smackdown booking run in 02-04).
Matt also could have good matches with me, and pretty much everyone on the fourms, let alone having great matches with everyone he faces, so that definitely helps.
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 1, 2009 16:21:05 GMT -5
Mark Henry, Big Show, and Kane did more for the belt than any other champ.
My favorite run was "Gangsta Vince" as seen by my sig, seriously Vince was awesome as ECW champ
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Post by taylorandborland on Jan 1, 2009 17:43:00 GMT -5
Which brings us back to Matt Hardy. I think he does legitimize the WWECW title, he's been around long enough to make us believe that having it makes it worth having. Remember the triple threat match of champions between Matt Hardy, Y2J and Triple H? Remember thinking that Hardy didn't stand a chance against those two?
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 1, 2009 17:50:07 GMT -5
Which brings us back to Matt Hardy. I think he does legitimize the WWECW title, he's been around long enough to make us believe that having it makes it worth having. Remember the triple threat match of champions between Matt Hardy, Y2J and Triple H? Remember thinking that Hardy didn't stand a chance against those two? Everyone knew Trips was winning that match, since it the Smackdown debut on a new network. While I was not shocked that Matt took the pinfall, they still made him look damn good in there for the most part. By the time he took the pin, he had reversed the Walls, the Pedigree (to the outside!), and maybe perhaps the Lionsault as well. Trips was the one to take the Codebreaker and Jericho took the Twist of Fate. All in all, it was the closest thing that they had done to make the ECW champion look credible in some time (especially after having Chavo in the Rumble match itself).
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Post by taylorandborland on Jan 1, 2009 18:11:02 GMT -5
Remember the triple threat match of champions between Matt Hardy, Y2J and Triple H? Remember thinking that Hardy didn't stand a chance against those two? Everyone knew Trips was winning that match, since it the Smackdown debut on a new network. While I was not shocked that Matt took the pinfall, they still made him look damn good in there for the most part. By the time he took the pin, he had reversed the Walls, the Pedigree (to the outside!), and maybe perhaps the Lionsault as well. Trips was the one to take the Codebreaker and Jericho took the Twist of Fate. All in all, it was the closest thing that they had done to make the ECW champion look credible in some time (especially after having Chavo in the Rumble match itself). That's not the point. Matt looked out of place in that match, even with the ECW strap on him. he hasn't made the title look more credible than it did before, and vice versa.
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 1, 2009 18:12:01 GMT -5
Really though it's looking like we're getting Hardy in a title match at the Rumble, to make it seem important again and that should help.
Really I think a couple of more defenses then he turns into a Cult leader believing his own hype
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Post by thelastcall on Jan 1, 2009 18:13:20 GMT -5
He is probably gonna end up as one of the men in the 30 man royal Rumble like Chavo
So No
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 1, 2009 18:16:36 GMT -5
Really wish they'd give the belt back to Big Show
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 1, 2009 18:39:11 GMT -5
Everyone knew Trips was winning that match, since it the Smackdown debut on a new network. While I was not shocked that Matt took the pinfall, they still made him look damn good in there for the most part. By the time he took the pin, he had reversed the Walls, the Pedigree (to the outside!), and maybe perhaps the Lionsault as well. Trips was the one to take the Codebreaker and Jericho took the Twist of Fate. All in all, it was the closest thing that they had done to make the ECW champion look credible in some time (especially after having Chavo in the Rumble match itself). That's not the point. Matt looked out of place in that match, even with the ECW strap on him. he hasn't made the title look more credible than it did before, and vice versa. On the card he may have looked out of place, but in the match he looked good. There are two ways for a guy to elevate a belt. 1) Be so credible that there is an instantaneous rub that elevates the belt. Big Show and RVD had that, and Kurt Angle and Benoit could have done that some as well. 2) Be booked in such a manner that there is a slow burn build for the belt. This usually requires long-term booking, decent angles, and multiple, credible challengers. Mark Henry helped the belt, and for a while there Matt's booking helped the belt as well. Matt has been booked fairly solidly (that "oh crap, I'm boned" look that Manu had Monday night when Matt's intro started, and Lawler's recognition of that look, are the little things that help). Doing his fair share in that three way match helped as well. Admittedly, unless they are building up to Hardy vs. Hardy, they need to accelerate the multiple challengers for the belt that they have in waiting. As a face, it will do wonders for Matt to routinely have to either defend against or get attacked by Henry, Swagger, and Kozlov. You're right that Matt is definitely not in the first category. Time will only tell, however, whether Matt is in the second category as a champion.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 1, 2009 18:44:23 GMT -5
Really wish they'd give the belt back to Big Show That would be great, given the belt would actually probably fit him, since it was made for Mark Henry, and I'd really love to see Matt sell the KO punch.
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 1, 2009 19:08:45 GMT -5
No seriously he wants to win a title, and he gets to work with a bunch of the younger guys.
Plus whoever would beat him would be solidified as The Man.
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Jan 1, 2009 19:38:47 GMT -5
The idea I had was to have Henry win the belt back from Matt. Henry allows Matt to enact his rematch clause at Wrestlemania, on the grounds that Henry gets to pick the stipulation.
Now, Mark Henry is from Texas. Wrestlemania 25 is in Texas. What's a match that was made famous in Texas, in which Matt Hardy could not possibly beat Mark Henry?
A Texas Bullrope Match.
How can Matt Hardy, a guy who weighs maybe 220 pounds, beat the 400-pound World's Strongest Man in a match where strength is a major factor? I don't know, but I'd love to find out.
Give them about fifteen minutes, a dose of blood, and a huge helping of courage and spirit, and you've built a newfound respect for the ECW title.
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 1, 2009 20:07:07 GMT -5
The idea I had was to have Henry win the belt back from Matt. Henry allows Matt to enact his rematch clause at Wrestlemania, on the grounds that Henry gets to pick the stipulation. Now, Mark Henry is from Texas. Wrestlemania 25 is in Texas. What's a match that was made famous in Texas, in which Matt Hardy could not possibly beat Mark Henry? A Texas Bullrope Match. How can Matt Hardy, a guy who weighs maybe 220 pounds, beat the 400-pound World's Strongest Man in a match where strength is a major factor? I don't know, but I'd love to find out. Give them about fifteen minutes, a dose of blood, and a huge helping of courage and spirit, and you've built a newfound respect for the ECW title. That could work, though Matt has been working a heavyweight style as opposed to the cruiserweight style he used to work for a while now, which would hurt that a little. Matt's even given Henry the Side Effect!
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 1, 2009 20:15:31 GMT -5
The idea I had was to have Henry win the belt back from Matt. Henry allows Matt to enact his rematch clause at Wrestlemania, on the grounds that Henry gets to pick the stipulation. Now, Mark Henry is from Texas. Wrestlemania 25 is in Texas. What's a match that was made famous in Texas, in which Matt Hardy could not possibly beat Mark Henry? A Texas Bullrope Match. How can Matt Hardy, a guy who weighs maybe 220 pounds, beat the 400-pound World's Strongest Man in a match where strength is a major factor? I don't know, but I'd love to find out. Give them about fifteen minutes, a dose of blood, and a huge helping of courage and spirit, and you've built a newfound respect for the ECW title. I am a fan of Texas bullrop matches for this sort of thing. I love the psychology that a quicker, smaller guy can't run or hide, and has to use his wits. Always pissed me off they didn't go this logical route when JBL choked out Jericho with the cord. It was a no brainer!
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jan 1, 2009 20:16:47 GMT -5
I thought Show did a much better job as guys from both Raw/SD were chasing after him and his title and nearly every week he was in a big title defense.
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 1, 2009 21:08:27 GMT -5
I thought Show did a much better job as guys from both Raw/SD were chasing after him and his title and nearly every week he was in a big title defense. That was a good time, was it not? Too bad that Angle was messed up at the time, since that would have been a tremendous angle for him. I would not be surprised if it was originally intended for Kurt, and Paul E. was forced to use Show instead.
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 1, 2009 21:56:49 GMT -5
The idea I had was to have Henry win the belt back from Matt. Henry allows Matt to enact his rematch clause at Wrestlemania, on the grounds that Henry gets to pick the stipulation. Now, Mark Henry is from Texas. Wrestlemania 25 is in Texas. What's a match that was made famous in Texas, in which Matt Hardy could not possibly beat Mark Henry? A Texas Bullrope Match. How can Matt Hardy, a guy who weighs maybe 220 pounds, beat the 400-pound World's Strongest Man in a match where strength is a major factor? I don't know, but I'd love to find out. Give them about fifteen minutes, a dose of blood, and a huge helping of courage and spirit, and you've built a newfound respect for the ECW title. Seriously Henry was just finding his groove in-ring and promo wise, he did more to re-establish the belt than Matt Has that's why I wanted him to win the re-match. Also that would have been awesome
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Post by David Otunga: Eternian at Law on Jan 2, 2009 0:24:37 GMT -5
Okay so since some of you feel it doesn't legitamize the title, what would it take in your eyes?
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