Fiddleford H. McGucket
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Jan 2, 2009 10:04:26 GMT -5
I've voiced my opinion on this spot earlier on another thread but I believe it deserves a dedicated one.
In short willful suspension of disbelief for me would require a cable system rivalling the Golden Gate bridge at this point. While I have no problem with the 619 as a move, the athletecism, nor how its pulled off; the actual setup spot for it leaves me speechless every time. Mostly this is due to 3 factors.
1. The speed at which the move is performed- To do the move properly and gain momentum Rey has to bounce off of the ropes opposite his opponent, and during this time the still conscious opponent just sits there draped over the second rope waiting to be kicked.
2. The fact that the spot ONLY exists within the infrastructure of a Rey Mysterio match. I cannot recall the spot EVER occuring outside of one. I believe that if the spot set up other moves in other matches then it would add to the credibilty as a spot.
3. It pigeonholes Rey- Mysterio is a talanted wrestler and has had matches all around the world and has had 20ish years worth of experience. He could probably pull some crazy, yet still within WWE-limits, lucha move out as a new finisher. He had a good thing going earlier with that body spalsh he used shortly after the draft/his return, but went back to the 619 within weeks
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 2, 2009 10:06:44 GMT -5
I think he shouldn't do the 619 every match, myself. It's fine when it happens, but it needs to be treated as special.
I guess the reason he does it this way is it's likely easy and safe for him, unlike hurricanranas which he often can't do for crap.
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Post by Pagan Warrior on Jan 2, 2009 10:09:41 GMT -5
There is one other WWE finisher that uses the 619 position as a set-up, the Miz does it occasionally, it's a kneedrop on the neck. I could see Rey doing a move like that too, it definately makes a better finisher than the 619.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 2, 2009 10:14:29 GMT -5
There are a good many finishers that, if you thought about them for 30 seconds, you'd realize just how improbable they are.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 2, 2009 10:29:14 GMT -5
There is one other WWE finisher that uses the 619 position as a set-up, the Miz does it occasionally, it's a kneedrop on the neck. I could see Rey doing a move like that too, it definately makes a better finisher than the 619. Jericho and Austin used to do the same move as well. Mark Henry also, i believe.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 2, 2009 10:33:08 GMT -5
There are a good many finishers that, if you thought about them for 30 seconds, you'd realize just how improbable they are. But those at least takes 30 seconds to find the holes... when watching the 619, before the move is even over my wife is saying how stupid it is. I know it's wrestling an entertainment, and every move has "holes" in it, but the 619 just seems to be a step or two beyond believable... even in wrestling logic. And remember folks, this same wrestling logic allows for catapult moves and back rakes that do more damage than a punch in the face.
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Jan 2, 2009 10:38:02 GMT -5
I'm actually more apt to believe the C4 or Overdrive....hell even the Canadian Destroyer before the 619.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jan 2, 2009 10:46:37 GMT -5
The WWE Universe obeys its own laws of physics.
Just like when you're in a match vs dX and you get superkicked it won't knock you down, it'll just spin you round for a pedigree.
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PKO
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Post by PKO on Jan 2, 2009 10:53:08 GMT -5
I don't have any problem with the 619 set-up spot. It's usually logical that they fall into that position, and the opponent is supposed to be worn out from the match so it's logical that they wouldn't be able to stand up. Anyway, they've just suffered a whiplash effect from springing throat first into the middle rope. And its been reversed enough times (like Kane in their recent feud) to show that Rey has to be really quick if he wants to be successful.
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with it.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 2, 2009 12:01:04 GMT -5
Rey is not the only one who uses that set up. Miz, Henry, Jericho, and Golddust are examples of WWE workers that use that set-up as well, just not as often as Rey.
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Post by seamonsters on Jan 2, 2009 12:21:56 GMT -5
Jeff Jarrett as well. The opponent hanging over the middle rope is a common, set up, but mot use to to jump on the guys back, rather than swing through the ropes and kick them in the face.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 2, 2009 12:38:52 GMT -5
I'm actually more apt to believe the C4 or Overdrive....hell even the Canadian Destroyer before the 619. The C4 can be believable if doen right. Like, instead of backflipping and the victim just flips over, have the attacked Lift them as if for an exploder suplex, but then part way through the lift backflip over themselves, so its more like a slam with a flip, than just a somersault. The overdrive also isnt too improbable. Swinging someone's collarbone using their arm as a lever and your leg to drive their neck round. It's possible. Bit much, but more realistic than the Canadian Destroyer or a catapult.
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Post by George Harrison on Jan 2, 2009 12:39:21 GMT -5
the setup has been used A LOT. You have never seen a wrestler fall onto the middle rope, and then his opponent run to the other side, bounce back and jump on his neck?
I admit the move is daft, but it falls into the whole Peoples elbow/The Worm/Ax kick scenario, it just has too much effect on the crowds to warrant changing it.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jan 2, 2009 12:41:12 GMT -5
The setup for Jeffs corner dropkick is worse, each time the opponent has to basically scurry backwards themselves to get in position for it.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jan 2, 2009 12:58:07 GMT -5
The Mexican lucha libre style in general requires a lot of suspension of disbelief due to the amount of cooperation it takes between the wrestlers. The set-up to the 6-1-9 is sometimes okay when it is a drop-toe-hold, but it looks really bad when wrestlers randomly fall on the ropes to set up the move.
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on Jan 2, 2009 13:16:36 GMT -5
Yeah, the 619 is very difficult to watch sometimes, even though I think the Ax kick (even thought I love Booker T) is slightly worse in terms of drawing out a really lame payoff.
I think the thing I hate most about the 619 is how they incorporate it into tag team matches, like where someone else does a move that shouldn't have the person ( unless they did some horrible "stumble over" schtick) finding himself resting on the second rope, and Rey "sees" this or even worse, has it pointed out to him. An example that comes to mind was that 8 man on raw between four guys from SD and four from Raw, and someone (I think Batista) did a move that made MVP fall over to the ropes and left him "prey" to Rey.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jan 2, 2009 13:32:20 GMT -5
I have seen Amazing Red do the 619. He calls it the 718. I think honestly I seen him do it before I ever saw Rey do it. Granted either way I don't think it's enough to be a finisher. Jarrett, Jericho, Austin and most everybody else really have just used it a signature ove. really. I think the best I've really seen Rey do the 619 was around the corner post to Kane. That one I kinda bought.
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Post by waffleofpower on Jan 2, 2009 13:37:04 GMT -5
I'm debating what's worse. The 619 or his "fall off the top rope like a corpse" splash.
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Post by Mr. Nice on Jan 2, 2009 13:41:01 GMT -5
It's not as bad as the stinkface setup
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jan 2, 2009 14:05:45 GMT -5
I have seen Amazing Red do the 619. He calls it the 718. I think honestly I seen him do it before I ever saw Rey do it. Granted either way I don't think it's enough to be a finisher. Jarrett, Jericho, Austin and most everybody else really have just used it a signature ove. really. I think the best I've really seen Rey do the 619 was around the corner post to Kane. That one I kinda bought. First off, cool username (I like the album 'The Silver Tonged Devil and I'). Also, Rey used that move in WCW all the time, but not as an offensive maneuver. It is possible that Amazing Red used the move as an offensive move before Rey did. In WCW, Rey used that move in various ways to trip up his opponent, but I don't even remember him using it as an offensive move the way he does now. I can't remember if he used it in WCW to attack an opponent standing outside the ring, but I never remember him doing it the way he does now.
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