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Post by doubleyou on May 7, 2005 1:17:22 GMT -5
I just wish that, if they didn't want to work a highspot style, then at least work a psychological style. It's been ages since I've seen a good psychological match in WWE. I'm sure there've been a few that I've missed, but they're way to far and in between. Good mat work, storytelling, submissions, flash pins, ANYTHING would be nice. Having a five minute staredown before a match starts does not equate to psychology, either. You'd think that the WWE would at least allow guys like Jericho, Benoit, Kurt and even Eddie to use flashy submission holds. But, with the exception of some Kurt Angle matches, none of those guys do anything worth mentioning on the mat; they just enter the ring and perform moves.
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Post by husshusshuss on May 7, 2005 4:06:48 GMT -5
I thought another part of the whole safe style thing was that wrestlers like HHH wouldn't be outshone by the more daring styles of hungry young 'uns after his spot.
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mainsupreme
Unicron
World Wildlife Entertainment
Posts: 3,463
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Post by mainsupreme on May 7, 2005 5:03:34 GMT -5
I really noticed it when I saw the jericho vs. christian ladder match. I thought it was gonna be a 5 star classic, and nothing special happened
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mainsupreme
Unicron
World Wildlife Entertainment
Posts: 3,463
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Post by mainsupreme on May 7, 2005 5:04:20 GMT -5
and ofcourse the first time I saw the walls of jericho......
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Post by redsox82 on May 7, 2005 10:32:46 GMT -5
I actually prefer the curren style. I felt the 80's were way too safe and that the mid-late 90's were just way too over the top. I'm not a big fan of the "Crash TV" format where guys are risking breaking a neck on half the spots they do. Yeah they're cool to look at, but in the long run I don't think it's really worth it. I'd rather see the guys have longer careers and wrestle a classic technical match.
Besides, if you're gonna go back to the high spots and insane bumps, let Chris Masters take them.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 7, 2005 10:39:59 GMT -5
I thought another part of the whole safe style thing was that wrestlers like HHH wouldn't be outshone by the more daring styles of hungry young 'uns after his spot. That may actually be a good point, though not limited to Triple H.
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Post by doubleyou on May 7, 2005 11:04:15 GMT -5
I'm looking at you, Mark Calloway!
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
Posts: 14,613
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Post by Rick Mad on May 7, 2005 14:59:06 GMT -5
I think on Raw the safe style seemed to come into effect during the horrible Triple H vs Nash or Steiner era. I forget when this was exactly, but around then is when things seemed to start going downhill. I KNOW the internet reports of them having the meetings and advocating the new style came out around a specific time but I don't remember when..
On Smackdown, I think it was around the time Edge got injured. Not positive.
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Post by vitamink on May 7, 2005 15:15:09 GMT -5
On Smackdown, I think it was around the time Edge got injured. Not positive. Yeah, it was soon after Edge. He was only 30 and already had to get career-threatening neck surgery. But as soon as they found out Angle had the same problem later that month, I think that was the final straw, and that's when the safe style started to take form.
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Post by mrwednesdaynight on May 7, 2005 20:00:10 GMT -5
I wouldnt have such a problem with the safe style if they would save the good stuff for ppv's and intense feuds, but they dont even do that. On the other hand i dont like seeing guys kill each other for no reason, and no pay for that matter. there has to be a pleasent balance.
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Post by nutbunnies on May 7, 2005 20:16:02 GMT -5
Combination of Owen-Austin and no competition.
Even though the Tombstone is regular, it doesn't count, as the head doesn't hit the mat.
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Post by whoopdeedoo on May 7, 2005 20:24:36 GMT -5
[Points] WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH!!!
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on May 7, 2005 22:27:18 GMT -5
[Points as well]BUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN HEEEEER!
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Post by invaderdave on May 8, 2005 13:45:50 GMT -5
If he weighs the same as a duck, then he's a witch.
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Post by whoopdeedoo on May 8, 2005 16:33:05 GMT -5
How about we build a bridge out of her instead?
[Note from the Poster]: If no one has ever seen Monty Python, then please disregard that last statement.
Anywhoo...
I think it's not a ego problem (Calloway, Levasque, etc.) but a Vinnie Mac paranoia. Think about this scenario, you buy this brand new barbeque grill that costs somewhere in the thousands. Then, when you get it home, it works like a charm everytime, but one day, you try a new kind of meat on it, and the grease and gunk clogs up the works, so it still works, but not nearly as well. I believe that this is the case with Vince, with workers replacing the grill. Unfortunately, he's taken that paranoia to extremes and made sure that nothing even SLIGHTLY risky can be done, therefore hurting the product.
If a promotion ever gets the kind of cash it needs to be a legit contender to the WWE throne, it needs to put on show things that WWE fans haven't seen in a long time.
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Post by squaredcircle on May 9, 2005 8:36:09 GMT -5
i grew up in the ultra safe style.
before Superfly Snuka started flying off the top rope.
i personally don't care for the ECW style. there's no story or psychology behind it. it's just glorified stuntwork and self mutilation. when the story is turned up all the way from the start, how do you create any dynamic tension in the story. at one pitch, it gets boring. real quick. nothing means anything.
if you're telling a ring story with the safe style, the outstanding moves are that much more so. they MEAN something in the story.
one of the greatest matches i ever witnessed was Bruno v. Ken Patera. each was billed as the strongest man in wrestling at the time. Patera used to have the intensity of Arn Anderson. anyway the match started and they locked up in a test of strength. honest togawd it musta gone on for 10 minutes, 2 guys in the middle of the ring just pushing on each other. and it was insane. the crowd just kept getting louder and louder. until Bruno put Patera down and the Garden exploded. no insanity, no blood, no risk. but damn it sold.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on May 9, 2005 8:50:40 GMT -5
i personally don't care for the ECW style. there's no story or psychology behind it. it's just glorified stuntwork and self mutilation. when the story is turned up all the way from the start, how do you create any dynamic tension in the story. at one pitch, it gets boring. real quick. nothing means anything. Yeah...uh...did you just watch the 20/20-type reports on ECW where they missed mentioning that some of the best storytellers and storylines were in ECW? I've said this before, and I'll say it again: ECW was NOT just violence. It was INTENSITY. Sure, part of it's niche was with the violence, but a heavy part of ECW was the art of telling a great story with INTENSE action. A lot of the wrestlers in ECW that are the "trademark" ECW people did not rely heavily on all the weapons and the garbage wrestling. Look at RVD, Lynn, Storm, Candido, Taz, Douglas, and then the cruiserweights like Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Scorpio, and people like Mysterio and Psichosis. When they DID use weapons, it wasn't made the focal point, almost like another offensive manuver. And you want to talk about bad storylines? Did you completely miss the huge Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer fued? Or the Raven vs. Sandman fued? Or the Tommy Dreamer vs. Sandman fued? Or Rob Van Dam vs. Sabu? Or hell, Sabu vs. Taz? Or Cactus Jack vs. Tommy Dreamer? Those were some of the best storylines in the buissness!
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on May 9, 2005 8:54:10 GMT -5
i grew up in the ultra safe style. before Superfly Snuka started flying off the top rope. i personally don't care for the ECW style. there's no story or psychology behind it. it's just glorified stuntwork and self mutilation. when the story is turned up all the way from the start, how do you create any dynamic tension in the story. at one pitch, it gets boring. real quick. nothing means anything. if you're telling a ring story with the safe style, the outstanding moves are that much more so. they MEAN something in the story. one of the greatest matches i ever witnessed was Bruno v. Ken Patera. each was billed as the strongest man in wrestling at the time. Patera used to have the intensity of Arn Anderson. anyway the match started and they locked up in a test of strength. honest togawd it musta gone on for 10 minutes, 2 guys in the middle of the ring just pushing on each other. and it was insane. the crowd just kept getting louder and louder. until Bruno put Patera down and the Garden exploded. no insanity, no blood, no risk. but damn it sold. ^^^ This is the kind of thing that kept Hogan alive this long!The man has hardly any good matches,uses the EXACT same routine during every match.But the angles he was in against Andre or the Warrior saved him.Both matches were horrendous,but he managed to somewhat tell a story.But I still prefer ACTUAL talent{Kurt,HBK,Eddie,Benoit}
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Post by squaredcircle on May 9, 2005 9:08:38 GMT -5
Yeah...uh...did you just watch the 20/20-type reports on ECW where they missed mentioning that some of the best storytellers and storylines were in ECW? I've said this before, and I'll say it again: ECW was NOT just violence. It was INTENSITY. Sure, part of it's niche was with the violence, but a heavy part of ECW was the art of telling a great story with INTENSE action. A lot of the wrestlers in ECW that are the "trademark" ECW people did not rely heavily on all the weapons and the garbage wrestling. Look at RVD, Lynn, Storm, Candido, Taz, Douglas, and then the cruiserweights like Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Scorpio, and people like Mysterio and Psichosis. When they DID use weapons, it wasn't made the focal point, almost like another offensive manuver. And you want to talk about bad storylines? Did you completely miss the huge Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer fued? Or the Raven vs. Sandman fued? Or the Tommy Dreamer vs. Sandman fued? Or Rob Van Dam vs. Sabu? Or hell, Sabu vs. Taz? Or Cactus Jack vs. Tommy Dreamer? Those were some of the best storylines in the buissness! we're from different worlds, lone ranger. i'm sure there were some great matches from ECW that didn't resort to ultraviolence. but it just doesn't do it for me. it didn't then and it doesn't now. not my cuppa, you know. it wasn't wrestling as i had grown up with. the feuds of my youth were Jay Strongbow and Jimmy Valiant, Bruno and Zybysko, Flair and Rhodes. ring stuff that would probably bore you to tears in its similarity to paint drying. but to me that's rasslin'. what can i say. today i prefer the guys who can tell a story (and not just in lame-o promos) like Kurt Angle (it's true). but he would have fit in just fine years ago.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on May 9, 2005 9:30:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I can see what you mean. I personally prefer people like Angle, Benoit, Jericho, and their ilk today, although I am a fan of people like Raven for the pure fact that with all of the so-called 'garbage' wrestling that he does, he still puts on a damn good story.
Speaking of Flair, some of my favorite matches involved him. And he is a fine example of how the "safe style" can work. You just need boatloads of charisma and the ability to tell a story.
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