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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Nov 16, 2009 22:27:33 GMT -5
Honestly? Sometimes I feel on day one we'd be just as well to pick who to lynch by throwing a dart at a bunch of pictures. There isn't much to go by and any form of actitivy seems to be construed as suspicious. This is why I said that while Jag was number one my suspect list, that I still wasn't ready to actually vote for him yet. Being the most suspicious and being suspicious enough that I thought you are guilty are two different things.
Day one confuses my poor caveman brain.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 16, 2009 22:28:47 GMT -5
I'm all for communication. But... some of your suspicions don't seem to support the idea that you do. Take Bundy, for example. He requested more activity, which would bring more discussion and communication... and you pointed your finger at him. Take me for another. I pointed out an alternate view on a hot topic, thus expanding the discussion and opening new lines of thought for communication... and I, too, got a finger pointed at me. In short... something isn't adding up here. If you want communication, why jump on those who help provide it? I do agree with your sentiments on one point, though. Those who are active enough to not be lurkers but aren't really contributing need to be watched. Mafia and 3rd Party got caught on the last game for that, so it's possible that it can happen again. It seems to me that by jumping on those who add to the discussion it ended up raising even more discussion thus helping us through the game. It seems like your looking at it from only one perspective, that he's attacking the people who speak up yet honestly at this stage in the game what else can we do? the only way to truly find out whats going on is by stirring the pot a little isn't it? i haven't played one of these online before but that seems like the way we should go about it... by having no one contradict or question one another we never really find out anything about who is who which according to what most people have said is crucial in the early days. Now this doesn't clear Meat in my books completely as he's one person to watch but in my opinion he seems like a guy just trying to figure out what other people are. You seem to really have your sights set on Latino Meat... its gone beyond the point of you defending yourself and into the point that you've gone on the offensive. i don't exactly think your a mafia member yet (as its far too early for me to tell at all) but the way you seem to keep attacking him does raise a few suspicions imho. Actually, although I don't think he is mafia I disagree with your assesment that it his tactics have only helped the town. I am all for discussion and love everyone throwing out alternative trains of thought so I appreciate that aspect of it, however it seems counterproductive to getting other theories from the rest of the town. The random accusations don't promote discussion, they put people on the defensive, and then they look scummy for being defensive. Meanwhile certain posters who hadn't contributed much more than say 2 posts until pegasus pointed them out come in late to the game when the focus is on other people and try to keep up those trains of thought while simultaneously not taking any stand themselves. That is an awesome tactic for someone who is more interested in seeing the town destroy itself, in my opinion. |
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 16, 2009 22:30:53 GMT -5
If I've gone on the offensive, it's because Latino (in my opinion) has stuck his foot in his mouth by making a statement that doesn't mesh so well with his actions.
And looking at things from multiple angles is great. If you remember, that's what I did to get in the hot seat in the first place.
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Post by crudulak on Nov 16, 2009 22:32:48 GMT -5
Here a a couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned. sorry about taking so long i was just a bit busy. i agree with the people saying that we need to vote just to keep the game moving as not voting seems to just stall the game a bit and make it harder to figure things out... it seems like the way to play the game is to lynch someone so by not doing that its almost like were not really playing the game... i'm not going to jump on any bandwagon at the moment as any bandwagon could simply be the mafia trying to stir the pot "I agree that we should vote and not-voting is bad, mmkay. I'm not going to vote, though." Scruffy: staunch proponent of voting without actually voting. Also, that gem of scum-strategy that you seem to be following; it seems like the way to play the game is to lynch someone so by not doing that its almost like were not really playing the game. ~and~Glad I caught your last post before posting this. I'm also glad you're participating, and your post about Emoticon has some merit imo. But not enough merit for me to ignore that it was a fairly soft accusation, and that it seemed more about defending Latino than honestly challenging Emoticon. I would be comfortable voting for you. #2 Post Count list removed for longness. but then Yeah, definitely something that needs to be stressed especially later in the game. There are some people like me and Simply Tea and Crumpets and Sweet and Sour who don't flood threads like these as much as others, but if memory serves me right, they are types that try to post content rather than just posting for the sake of posting. So, the numbers game is all relative throughout the course of the game. I'm not necessarily trying to call people out for having fewer posts than the "post-count-leader." That post count thing was just to save people the effort of having to figure out who's doing what and who's not. And the two posters that I used with my own are just an example. I'm not trying to imply innocence or guilt or announce an affiliation with either. They are just two names that come to mind, because while they didn't post as much in the previous game as others, I felt they were quality posters. Again, I just used two names as an example from the previous game; they may end up being the biggest lurkers in the game this time around. Speaking for myself though, I don't plan on posting 12 times a day just to keep pace with more active posters. At the same time, you can bet I'm going to keep up with the game, and that's precisely the point of the post count table to begin with: to hopefully show who is or isn't keeping up. So I see a potential contradiction. The post count was important enough for you to do it, but then you downplay it. It seems like you could be trying to appear as being helpful without actually doing anything of substance that helps us find scum. I'm not sure about your explanation at the end, what does a post count have to do with keeping up? You mention ritt as a suspect, but not why. I don't think that helps the town. I would feel comfortable voting for you, as well. I would like to hear more from jakilki and Latino Meat before I vote. |
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 16, 2009 22:38:50 GMT -5
EBWOP
Oh and also Big Congratulations to Crudulak on being a four time, four time, four time uncle! And welcome to the chaos of day one I am starting to see the Crud that i was hoping for.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 16, 2009 22:50:25 GMT -5
So I see a potential contradiction. The post count was important enough for you to do it, but then you downplay it. It seems like you could be trying to appear as being helpful without actually doing anything of substance that helps us find scum. I'm not sure about your explanation at the end, what does a post count have to do with keeping up? You mention ritt as a suspect, but not why. I don't think that helps the town. I would feel comfortable voting for you, as well. I would like to hear more from jakilki and Latino Meat before I vote. I just want to point out that I had hinted someone should go through and look at the people not posting as much because I did notice a couple weird things like yours, Tfmcmg, Curt Hawkins Fan, and Scruffy (whom I did forget about later when I was trying to prod out some folks). Pegasus just did the dirty work for me. Then too I was the one who pointed out that just because a post count was low does not mean anything really, but we should go back and read those posts so that stuff doesn't slip under the radar. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 22:56:00 GMT -5
It seems to me that by jumping on those who add to the discussion it ended up raising even more discussion thus helping us through the game. It seems like your looking at it from only one perspective, that he's attacking the people who speak up yet honestly at this stage in the game what else can we do? the only way to truly find out whats going on is by stirring the pot a little isn't it? i haven't played one of these online before but that seems like the way we should go about it... by having no one contradict or question one another we never really find out anything about who is who which according to what most people have said is crucial in the early days. Now this doesn't clear Meat in my books completely as he's one person to watch but in my opinion he seems like a guy just trying to figure out what other people are. You seem to really have your sights set on Latino Meat... its gone beyond the point of you defending yourself and into the point that you've gone on the offensive. i don't exactly think your a mafia member yet (as its far too early for me to tell at all) but the way you seem to keep attacking him does raise a few suspicions imho. Actually, although I don't think he is mafia I disagree with your assesment that it his tactics have only helped the town. I am all for discussion and love everyone throwing out alternative trains of thought so I appreciate that aspect of it, however it seems counterproductive to getting other theories from the rest of the town. The random accusations don't promote discussion, they put people on the defensive, and then they look scummy for being defensive. Meanwhile certain posters who hadn't contributed much more than say 2 posts until pegasus pointed them out come in late to the game when the focus is on other people and try to keep up those trains of thought while simultaneously not taking any stand themselves. That is an awesome tactic for someone who is more interested in seeing the town destroy itself, in my opinion. yeah i can understand that... what you say makes sense. i'm still trying to soak all this in as there are so many different strategies its hard to learn it all at once... although still what Meat has said has generated discussion at least so there is that. Here a a couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned. sorry about taking so long i was just a bit busy. i agree with the people saying that we need to vote just to keep the game moving as not voting seems to just stall the game a bit and make it harder to figure things out... it seems like the way to play the game is to lynch someone so by not doing that its almost like were not really playing the game... i'm not going to jump on any bandwagon at the moment as any bandwagon could simply be the mafia trying to stir the pot "I agree that we should vote and not-voting is bad, mmkay. I'm not going to vote, though." Scruffy: staunch proponent of voting without actually voting. Also, that gem of scum-strategy that you seem to be following; it seems like the way to play the game is to lynch someone so by not doing that its almost like were not really playing the game. ~and~Glad I caught your last post before posting this. I'm also glad you're participating, and your post about Emoticon has some merit imo. But not enough merit for me to ignore that it was a fairly soft accusation, and that it seemed more about defending Latino than honestly challenging Emoticon. I would be comfortable voting for you. well i haven't voted yet because i find it quite difficult for anyone to have a read as Deadpool said the first day is pretty much random so basically if your going to accuse me of something you mine as well accuse him because he has said almost the same thing. i never said i had a good accusation against Emoticon my post was more pointing out the other side as it seemed like only one side of the coin of Meat's posts were being looked at. i can see as how that would come off as defending Meat but i honestly believe i was doing what Emoticon was doing earlier which is looking at it from a different perspective than was presented to begin with as i felt there was another side to it all that wasn't being said |
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Post by crudulak on Nov 16, 2009 23:30:56 GMT -5
(Thanks ritt! My first nephew!) Scruffy: One difference between you and Deadpool is that you actually made a big deal about voting vs. nonvoting in your first serious post of Day One. The second is that Deadpool has actually gone on record as suspecting somebody, thus contributing to the game. I think you got close with your post about Emoticon, but it seemed like you were arguing on behalf of Latino Meat. i honestly believe i was doing what Emoticon was doing earlier which is looking at it from a different perspective than was presented to begin with as i felt there was another side to it all that wasn't being said So you took it upon yourself to... what? Give Emoticon a "taste of his own medicine?" Were you just having a vaguely accusatory conversation? Defending Latino Meat before he's faced his latest accusations? Who are your top suspects? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 23:42:14 GMT -5
(Thanks ritt! My first nephew!) Scruffy: One difference between you and Deadpool is that you actually made a big deal about voting vs. nonvoting in your first serious post of Day One. The second is that Deadpool has actually gone on record as suspecting somebody, thus contributing to the game. I think you got close with your post about Emoticon, but it seemed like you were arguing on behalf of Latino Meat. i honestly believe i was doing what Emoticon was doing earlier which is looking at it from a different perspective than was presented to begin with as i felt there was another side to it all that wasn't being said So you took it upon yourself to... what? Give Emoticon a "taste of his own medicine?" Were you just having a vaguely accusatory conversation? Defending Latino Meat before he's faced his latest accusations? Who are your top suspects? well right now as i said before i do suspect Emoticon as he's gone beyond defending himself and has latched onto attacking Meat... i also suspect you since you've decided to jump at the first sign of anything you seem to deem noteworthy and are trying to focus quite a bit of attention on me pointing the finger at whomever you can right off the bat. Also i don't believe its giving him a taste of his own medicine as i would have said it regardless of whomever had said that. it wasn't a personal attack at Emoticon at all it was more just a comment to what he said |
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Nov 16, 2009 23:42:31 GMT -5
So where to begin?  I don't think I stuck my foot in mouth and was 'caught' that way -- I do believe that I have always stuck my head into places that it doesn't belong, and that maybe I am onto something. I didn't want to jump on the Jag bandwagon because that is what I was joking about in the very beginning with the lynch picture -- how we are all going to jump on the very first thing that seems suspect, and that is exactly what happened. I thought I was being funny, and I was wrong. Mafia = serious business That is where I was coming from in the beginning. Now, when I throw out theories, I guess that makes me more suspect that I am pointing fingers. So I can kinda see how people will think that when Mr Emoticon got defensive against me, how that could make me suspect. However, if you go back and read my posts, I wasn't talking with any level of certainty -- just stating what looked like mafia play to me (or scummy). So when I defended myself to Mr Emoticon after he defended himself against my theory, I thought I was doing ok. He didn't suspect me, and just thought I had a case of nerves. And this is why -- I wanted people to explain themselves more than what they were. ritt, Jazzman, Jag, Al Bundy -- they were all throwing things out there, and I wanted to hear more. Yeah, my focus didn't stray to the others like it did to the ones that sounded the scummiest (is that even a word?), but I thought that would be a scab someone should pick in order to help the town as a whole. Maybe Mr Emoticon Man is telling the truth; but if his theories on Jag are correct, then couldn't my theories be as well? I am confused at this point in time, as the only people that are hugely suspects are the ones that are posting the most... and I feel that we are overlooking a lot of potential members. However, right now is NOT the time to divert attention from me (although I would really like to with the drive by voting done... ahem) and the reason why I called out Al Bundy on wanting more communication had more to do with how he worded it, and not the actual asking for more information: I felt like he was searching for people's roles in a nonchalant way. Was I wrong? I don't know. But that's the feeling I got from his post. I don't like the fact that I was put on the hot seat, but I do like the fact that more people are posting now than before -- and with actual substance. If it took me to singled out, I guess it's better than me blindly voting for anyone. See, this is where things get weird for me -- I figure talking things out is one thing -- but who you vote for is what matters. I have yet to vote for anyone, since I do not yet have a great feeling towards anyone. I just have my theories, and theories brought up by others. Like, I love the post count that was posted, and I like the interaction going right now. I will say it again -- the strongest thing we have against the mafia is our communication and ability to keep things open. As long as we have strong communication, the mafia doesn't stand a chance. |
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Post by psychotix5000 on Nov 17, 2009 0:07:01 GMT -5
First off, i am not nor do i advocate fishing for roles. Outing a power role is like erecting a neon sign for the mafia over the power role's head that reads "kill me." That is very detrimental to the town.
Now, having gone back thru most of the thread i still feel jagilki is the most likely to flip mafia. My reasons:
1-downplaying his experience, then lashing out with filler posts when called on it.
2-not providing any real substance to the discussion ie refusing to name his top suspects or comment on the various other suspects that have been discussed.
3-with only one vote, he calls for the town to lynch him. Doing so confuses the hell outta everyone which is counterproductive.
While i may be wrong, i feel that jagilki really needs to post something of substance and get more involved with the game so
VOTE: jagilki
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Nov 17, 2009 1:04:20 GMT -5
There is so much reliant upon chance and whim right now. There are plenty of people who could be targetted as "talking too much" just as it was hinted that some don't talk enough. So, while I do get disappointed by lurkers, it seems to me that it forwards the game's progress to possibly tag someone who's active this early in the game. The biggest downside is hitting the wrong person (a town member) and then having to live with that stamp on your forehead for the rest of the game.
So, I'll tell you right now: I'm going to go with a decision tomorrow that is rooted more along the lines of instincts and the attempt to forward the game. I honestly have no strong suspicion on any one person as being Mafia right now, but if I look really hard and overanalyze, I can definitely see how a number of people recently would fit the bill as a Mafia member. I think at least one Mafia member is active, so hitting one of those active members is--to me--the most productive move at this stage. Feel free to disagree, but this is just sort of my justification before the vote, which I'll get in tomorrow.
Just to share what was going through my head, up until his last lengthy post, I was leaning toward a vote for Latino Meat. But, I feel relatively assured right now that he's comfortable enough in his posts and actually contributing enough to get a pass on Day One. Again, I'm not clear enough on Day One to even say he's under a finger of suspicion at all; I had just been leaning toward him on that whim and chance concept.
It's too early for me to be confident in sending anyone up for a lynch. The most important thing I'm looking at is who might be a cop/investigator. That's the worst possible scenario on Day One--that is, lynching someone that could have the greatest impact power-role-wise. I'm trying more or less NOT to hit a cop/investigator with my vote as much I am trying to narrow down who all of the Mafia members are on Day One.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 17, 2009 1:55:26 GMT -5
There is so much reliant upon chance and whim right now. There are plenty of people who could be targetted as "talking too much" just as it was hinted that some don't talk enough. So, while I do get disappointed by lurkers, it seems to me that it forwards the game's progress to possibly tag someone who's active this early in the game. I quite disagree. I do think its likely that one of the frequent posters is a mafia, but also I do think because they are visible they are more likely to eventually slip up. If any of the lurkers are mafia given them this free pass is incredibly beneficial to them. We will be reducing the voices in the open by one and letting any possible mafia lurkers work on a safer game plan. The devil you see is better than what lurks in the shadows I say. Plus not only are the lurkers not helping the town they become safe kills for the mafia. IE if night started now and Curt Hawkins fan is night killed (just using him as an example because I think he has said the least) , what information does that gives us for tomorrow's lynch? Now if Latino or Emoticon is the night kill we have a lot of information from today to pour back over and a whole new set of conclusions to jump too. |
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Tfmcmg is Johnny Green
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Post by Tfmcmg is Johnny Green on Nov 17, 2009 4:47:48 GMT -5
Let me get this off my chest. I'm fine with the prodding , obviously you need to know a player is active for the game to run smoothly and I'm fine with the 48 hour limit. That being said I made a mistake and I'm trying to correct it and when I have free time now I come and look at the topic. With that said I don't like people who are telling me that I have to throw out random pointless accusations or I'm scum. I mean it's one thing to say "If we communicate alot then we'll have a pretty good chance of winning" and it's another thing to say "Hey let's have pointless bandwagons in the game because it counts as communication." , you know what I mean? Maybe it's just me but I'm more of a quality of discussion guy then a quantity guy.
Just like voting I'm not going to vote on a Thursday when the vote isn't until the next Wednesday. I'll probably vote on a Tuesday so I can read most of the post up on until when I vote.
I'm not saying that the way you play the game is wrong or anything like that. I'm just telling you how I play the game and how I plan on posting and if you have a problem with that , That's fine but don't lynch me just because I have more laid back playing style.
And I know what you're going to say " But you haven't contributed anything to the game yet." But my counter-point to that is why should I contribute something to the game if I don't feel like it's a valid point? I mean if I had a suspect and I had good evidence to support my claim I'd say it but I don't and yes I've read all eleven pages. An really the only person who seems the least bit scummy to me is jagkill and I don't even feel that confident on him being scum. The rest of it just seems like pointless bickering to me.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Nov 17, 2009 9:26:41 GMT -5
So you want the rest of us to keep our names out there, doing the dirty work, making the accusations and defenses, tossing out scenarios and looking for alliances, so you can sit back and fly under the radar hoping infrequent, non-contributing short posts will keep you safe until the day before a lynch when you will finally contribute but were not supposed to consider you for that lynch?
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 17, 2009 9:45:54 GMT -5
Maybe Mr Emoticon Man is telling the truth; but if his theories on Jag are correct, then couldn't my theories be as well? I am confused at this point in time, as the only people that are hugely suspects are the ones that are posting the most... and I feel that we are overlooking a lot of potential members. Just to clarify... but I have no real theories on jag. I don't know if he's Mafia, Town, or otherwise. All I did know was that the case being built against him (in my opinion) was weak, and that it failed to address a rather mundane and harmless explanation for his action of downplaying his skill. In short, my comment had less to do with defending jag personally than it did questioning the line of reasoning used against him. |
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 17, 2009 9:53:37 GMT -5
EBWOP
Also... something to consider. How active were the Mafia members in the last game?
Blade wasn't very active, and didn't provide much input; instead, he was forever commenting that he'd address things in his next post.
Madison was slipping through the game without much attention at all; indeed, his forgetability was what cued me onto him in the first place.
Damien Demento likewise seemed to coast through, avoiding the lurker status but not quite contributing much.
And Russo was very much a lurker until the role changed hands and came under suspicion.
I'm not saying that the Mafia will operate in the same manner this go-around, particularly since it's most likely a new batch of players. But... in all honesty, I've noticed more of a pattern for Mafia members being relatively inactive than being at the forefront of the discussion, so it might behoove us to keep that in mind. As someone else hinted at before, a shot in the dark might provide interesting results at a low risk.
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Post by ♥ Bunnyslinger ♥ on Nov 17, 2009 12:43:22 GMT -5
That deadline is still coming up, and we're nowhere near enough votes on someone to make a lynch,or even apply pressure. I'm expecting, votes to drop in very close to the actual lynch, which is bad IMO as it gives the potential lyncheé(that's right, i made up a word  ) virtually no time to react and defend himself and it gives us no time to gauge his reaction to the possibility of being lynched. We need this lynch, or Day 2 will just be a repeat of Day 1 with next to no info what so ever. I'm still for lynching a lurker, since they're not really trying to keep the discussion alive and help the town. I've pretty much written off Emoticon man as a suspect myself, still somewhat suspicious of Jag though, but as I said, my vote goes to a lurker for now, but like I said earlier in the thread, if need be I'll change it so we can make a lynch. Need to make a move guys, any move. I STRONGLY doubt we'll be able to stir up any kind of concrete proof before the lynch, so like was said in the beginning, day 1 is very much a crapshoot. |
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Oak: Certified Jade Hater
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Post by Oak: Certified Jade Hater on Nov 17, 2009 14:10:41 GMT -5
This is the downside of a Day 1. Except for the Mafia, no one knows who's scum.
Right now, it seems that there's a bit of a bandwagon against jag because he's trying to "downplay" his expertise in the game. I've already stated that jag could be truthful and trying to say that he's still learning the ins and outs, so jag isn't on my suspect list at the moment.
Latino... with his suspicion, he managed to get people talking and provide theories with substance, which can only help the town. I don't know if he's Mafia or not, but I doubt Mafia would try to get townies to begin talking and narrowing down suspicion lists.
Finally, I agree with Gunslinger. If the town does end up getting lynch-happy when we get close to the deadline and picks a random lurker or jag (either is a possibility), that leaves little time to actually listen to the lynchee's side and determine if the vote stands or gets retracted. If anything, I'd suggest votes to take place a day before the deadline, giving the town the chance to at least hear what the potential lynchee has to say in his defense.
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Tfmcmg is Johnny Green
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Post by Tfmcmg is Johnny Green on Nov 17, 2009 14:21:52 GMT -5
So you want the rest of us to keep our names out there, doing the dirty work, making the accusations and defenses, tossing out scenarios and looking for alliances, so you can sit back and fly under the radar hoping infrequent, non-contributing short posts will keep you safe until the day before a lynch when you will finally contribute but were not supposed to consider you for that lynch? NO! As I (tried to) say there is a difference between doing the "Dirty work" and making pointless bandwagons. What I'm trying to say is "I might contribute to the game before the day of the l ynch and I might no depending on how strongly I feel on my point." I mean of the odds of us lynching scum at the first day are completly random where as the odds of us lynching a townie on the first day are high which is wHY I don't (imo) get into pointless bickering here or bandwagon someone when the odds of lynching a townie are so high. |
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) virtually no time to react and defend himself and it gives us no time to gauge his reaction to the possibility of being lynched.
