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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 10, 2010 15:49:14 GMT -5
I wonder if it would have made any difference if NBC had moved The Tonight Show back to NYC? Maybe Conan's studio audience would be better able to drive the excitment level of the viewing audience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2010 16:09:46 GMT -5
Not really big on the late night talk show front admittedly, but if given the choice between the options I'd probably go with Conan.
Still, who's to say that Leno moving to 11:30 will actually be successful? It's entirely possible his rating problems go to people being tired of him and the fact that he's been around for ages - not necessarily saying that's the case, but it's an argument I haven't really seen brought up when it's entirely possible.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 10, 2010 16:09:53 GMT -5
If those options are accurate, you know what I would be tempted to do? Sign with Fox, earning $1.00 a year for the first 4 years of his contract and make NBC pay him anyways. |
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Post by Tom Selleck on Jan 10, 2010 16:21:36 GMT -5
Am I the only one hoping that Conan stays with NBC, moves to 12:35 and takes his show back to New York were it belongs? Late Night With Conan O'Brien was classic and I'd love to see it return. It might seem like a giant step backwards for Conan though so who knows if he'd do it.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 10, 2010 16:21:58 GMT -5
Not really big on the late night talk show front admittedly, but if given the choice between the options I'd probably go with Conan. Still, who's to say that Leno moving to 11:30 will actually be successful? It's entirely possible his rating problems go to people being tired of him and the fact that he's been around for ages - not necessarily saying that's the case, but it's an argument I haven't really seen brought up when it's entirely possible. I think a more likely argument, one that I hinted at earlier, is that NBC can not take the time to develop Conan's Tonight Show. Back when Carson was done for sure NBC slowly learned ,with the help of Leno, to turn The Tonight Show from a variety show into a show for a stand up comic. Now the need to turn from a show for a stand up comic to a show for a comedy writer. The problem is you lose part of your audience during the transition and then you have to build it back up. Back in the early to mid 90's NBC could afford to do this because they have a very strong prime time line up. At the same time CBS' line up competely fell apart and as a result Leno gained the lead on Letterman once his Tonight Show came together. But now NBC's primetime line, Leno show not included, is very similar to CBS' circa 1994. So NBC has a format created for a stand up act, being hosted by a writer and they can not take the hit that redeveloping would take. So I can see from the networks perspective why they would just like bring Jay back for at least a short term bump. I don't think anyone at NBC can think more than two months ahead at this point anyway. |
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Post by Insomniac on Jan 10, 2010 16:24:16 GMT -5
Am I the only one hoping that Conan stays with NBC, moves to 12:35 and takes his show back to New York were it belongs? Late Night With Conan O'Brien was classic and I'd love to see it return. It might seem like a giant step backwards for Conan though so who knows if he'd do it. I really can't see him going back to NY and putting his writers and crew through the whole moving process again. That would be brutal. |
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Jan 10, 2010 16:30:05 GMT -5
Move Jay to New York.
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Just Jay
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Post by Just Jay on Jan 10, 2010 16:32:05 GMT -5
I just read on CNN that Jay Leno is not only receiving his old time slot back, but receiving The Tonight Show back as well. I don't think this can be anywhere close to right because not only does it violate Conan's contract, but I read a conflicting report in which the chairman had said they gave the Tonight Show to Conan as a sign of NBC giving them something to stay for.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jan 10, 2010 16:35:17 GMT -5
Jay would get shived if he brought his schtick to New York.
The infuriating part about this is that Conan as Tonight Show host wasn't about today. It was about five to ten years from now. Conan's always been big with the 18 to 34 demographic. As they would get older, that's when they would gravitate to the show (as well as hopefully continuing to pull in the younger crowd). It was a move to secure the future of The Tonight Show, but they flush that away with short-term thinking.
And it's not really Conan's fault either, nor is it a statement on his job performance. This is all done to placate Jay Leno. Unbelievable.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 10, 2010 16:37:49 GMT -5
I read a Wall Street Journal report saying that Conan has begun to consider offers from Fox and to a lesser extent ABC, though ABC seems fairly happy with the Nightline/Kimmel line up, A source close to the situation said "One way or another Jay is getting his old slot back" (paraphrase) If Conan went to Fox it would involve NBC paying the vast majority of his salery.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jan 10, 2010 16:42:31 GMT -5
It seems fairly obvious that, one way or another, Conan will leave. When that happens, does Jay just gobble the Tonight Show name back up? And what does he do when he's really ready to retire? Will anyone take the hand-off seriously? Or does the Tonight Show just get canceled after fifty some years to avoid the tarnished lineage it now has?
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Jan 10, 2010 16:58:40 GMT -5
The thing is, this whole event has basically killed Leno's "nice guy" image to the entire world, and his entire ratings are gonna suffer anyway. The older audience will choose Letterman (as scandal-plagued as he is) over him. The younger Conan audience will not accept him, and NBC will continue to flush demos away in order to sustain its dream of hitting a "massive audience". Eventually, NBC itself will simply go extinct and be replaced by NBC U's cable nets.
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Post by DamnYankee on Jan 10, 2010 17:20:55 GMT -5
Carson is turning over in his grave. I hope Leno receives abysmal ratings if he, indeed, does take back the Tonight Show.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 10, 2010 17:23:10 GMT -5
In fairness to Jay Leno (who's show I think competely sucks in almost everyway) It's not his fault that NBC wanted to hold Conan when his contract was up and also didn't want to let Leno go. NBC was the one that decided to hold onto both. Now it's bitting them in the ass. Personally I would rather they stick with Conan and dump Leno becuase I find Conan to be 100% funnier than Jay, but that's nothing but opinon. Mostly I just wished they had the abilty and time to give Conan a chance to develop his Tonight Show but it looks like that's not possible.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Jan 10, 2010 17:23:41 GMT -5
Carson is turning over in his grave. I hope Leno receives abysmal ratings if he, indeed, does take back the Tonight Show. Even Carson could be nasty, but what Leno has done has been the work of an utter bottom feeder. He's jeopardized the existence of an entire network just to preserve his slot. He deserves banishment to Branson Missouri for the rest of his showbiz career. |
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Post by toddpolt on Jan 10, 2010 17:59:27 GMT -5
I just read on CNN that Jay Leno is not only receiving his old time slot back, but receiving The Tonight Show back as well. I don't think this can be anywhere close to right because not only does it violate Conan's contract, but I read a conflicting report in which the chairman had said they gave the Tonight Show to Conan as a sign of NBC giving them something to stay for. I think its over when the NBC Chairman's statement was to the tune that "we plan Conan and Jimmy for a hour later."[/i] A hour later?!? What the heck? So its Conan at 12:30 once again, and Jay at 11:30.  Since Steve Allen, and carried on by Paar and Carson and Leno, the "Tonight Show" has been a brand name that is rare in TV. It has become associated as a prized badge for comedians. Hosting TS doesn't mean you're the best comedian in America. It (usually) means you're America's comedian. The nightly monologue is an Internet for which people can laugh at the absurdity of culture by cutting through the bull. Yeah I prefered Conan (and sometimes Letterman) over Leno, but you get my point. Honestly, I thought Conan was continuing that fine tradition. Yeah Yeah Conan is "struggling," but so did Leno for what 2 years? As said already, Conan got 7 months and is getting uprooted by a greedy prick who is getting rewarded for being lousy. What people don't realize is that yes Conan is fighting a brutal war with Letterman (and alot of times losing right now) that war over the 18-49 age audience...but Conan kills Letterman (and rest of NBC late night even SNL) in DVR. Fact is, Big Wiggle is absolutely RIGHT. Conan is the future. Letterman seems to piecemeal his CBS contract (up to 2012 now) because with father time visiting more often (he already has had bypass surgery), he's not the future of Late Night. Yes Conan might take a few years probably, well help him. Make NBC a hot network again with the primetime, lead-in programs like NBC was in the 90s with Friends, Mad About You, Seinfeld, and E.R. All that helped Leno. But the short-sighted goals of NBC and a Chairman who's scared his head is gonna get chopped off at anytime by his new Comcast employers...its gonna screw the network over in the long term. EDIT - Play as Coco and fight Leno off your contract! tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28//ConanContractGame/index.html |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 10, 2010 18:12:11 GMT -5
I'd say the only thing Conan can do is walk. If he stays, he looks like a chump plus he'd be torpedoing Jimmy Fallon, who is settling in quite well on Late Night.
If I were Conan, I'd go to Fox, build an audience, raise his stock, and when Lettermen retires hopefully there's a nice big bidding war between CBS and Fox for Conan.
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Post by toddpolt on Jan 10, 2010 18:20:02 GMT -5
I read a Wall Street Journal report saying that Conan has begun to consider offers from Fox and to a lesser extent ABC, though ABC seems fairly happy with the Nightline/Kimmel line up, A source close to the situation said "One way or another Jay is getting his old slot back" (paraphrase) If Conan went to Fox it would involve NBC paying the vast majority of his salery. If TMZ is correct (a big if considering its friggin TMZ*), then if Conan walks out of this mess and goes to ABC or Fox with a new contract, NBC pays out the remaining of his 4 years/$80 million that isn't covered by his new ABC/Fox contract. Which means if Coco say went to Fox and got paid only a dollar for each of say the next four years, NBC will be forced to pay him $79,999,996. Yes, a network paying that much to a guy who isn't on theirs. ;D Man that would be a fitting revenge. Even Carson could be nasty, but what Leno has done has been the work of an utter bottom feeder. He's jeopardized the existence of an entire network just to preserve his slot. He deserves banishment to Branson Missouri for the rest of his showbiz career. Yeah Carson could be a prick, from his many public holdout feuds with the network in the 70s/80s, and which NBC caved everytime (shortening TS a half hour, move it to 11:30 from 11, more money, more creative control, etc.) and well that whole Joan Rivers debacle. Then again its not like anyone could blame him for either situation. He was super popular, he wanted his cut. Rivers went behind his back, cost her TS. But the guy did retire gracefully, even when his preferred successor didn't get his show. At worst, Carson politely snubbed Leno by never appearing on his program while appearing several times for Letterman and giving him occassional monologue jokes up to his death. And less we forget, but Letterman and Conan have had a strong professional respect for each other. Remember Conan when he started out in 1993, those infamous week-by-week contracts and everyone was trashing him and lets admit it, nice guy with great enthusiasm but he sucked? When Conan back then couldn't even get people to attend his free tapings, Letterman sent his Late Show audiences over to Conan to fill up the seats. Letterman had Conan appear on his show, and dispute his then-recent hatred of NBC, Letterman appeared on Conan's fledgling program. To help the guy out. From everything I've read, Letterman is an egomaniac prick of the stereotypical celebrity kind and his own Tiger Woods-esque affair scandal is just another example. Yet from all accounts, he was a decent guy to Conan, who's now his rival. Certainly says something when he on-air congratulated Conan on getting TS. That's worth something. *=To be fair, TMZ did break the Michael Jackson death. |
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Post by toddpolt on Jan 10, 2010 18:38:39 GMT -5
Comedian Patton Oswalt on a Comedy radio network spews his interesting thoughts on the Leno/Conan fiasco. Boy I wonder if Leno will reference any of this on monday when Oswalt appears on his show. NSFW, Some Language
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jan 10, 2010 18:39:40 GMT -5
Yeah, and Letterman later appeared in a sketch for Late Night when Conan and Andy time traveled to the mid-'80s (right into Letterman's studio).
Conan and Leno have always had a good relationship, but, then again, so did Leno and Letterman before Leno screwed him. Conan was remarkably good-natured about the whole idea of "The Jay Leno Show" in the first place, but I can't see his temperament remaining so any longer.
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