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Post by Shogun316 on Dec 31, 2009 12:52:16 GMT -5
i just watched that match (again) ;D and i don't get all the hatred that everyone has for it. i think it was a very good match with only two problems: a)the crowd was nearly dead and you can't blame them after the HBK vs Taker match. b)the finish was a bit anti-climatic. but other than that, it was a great match
what do you think about that match?
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Dec 31, 2009 12:54:50 GMT -5
Nothing on earth could follow Taker/HBK, but I agree, the match ending was very anti-climatic.
I could have cared less over the result.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Dec 31, 2009 12:55:43 GMT -5
it was ok
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 31, 2009 12:56:52 GMT -5
Never should have followed Taker-HBK. You think Trips would've learned after following Hogan-Rock.
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Post by MGH on Dec 31, 2009 12:58:19 GMT -5
The match was a paint by numbers mid card match on a Raw. I didn't think it brought the quality to be a main event on a PPV, let alone the main event of a Mania that featured Shawn vs. Taker doing what they did. The ending sucked, and for once the crowd backed that opinion up. The hush over the place when HHH got the most anti-climatic pin of the decade spoke for itself. Oh, not to mention the wrong man won.
They've blown some money feuds before, but looking at how Randy began getting his ultimate mega push in December, how hot he was following his punt to McMahon, and how great the first 4-5 weeks of the HHH feud was, you could argue this was their biggest dropping of the ball in years. Then to make things worse, they stretched it out until well in to the Summer, with it getting worse and worse every time out. Last man standing on Raw aside. Oh yeah, and that was the THIRD last man standing match the two had wrestled in against one another. When you have three of the same gimmick match over the duration of your feuds, it's time to pull the plug on it.
That match made Mania end on a terribly sour note.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 31, 2009 13:05:23 GMT -5
Shouldn't have followed Taker vs HBK unless Orton was going to be set on fire and fall off a steel cage.
Triple H really shouldn't be in the last match at Wrestlemania unless its with a guy he can have a decent match with. That man isn't Randy Orton.
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Post by BitterAF on Dec 31, 2009 13:08:12 GMT -5
The match was a paint by numbers mid card match on a Raw. I didn't think it brought the quality to be a main event on a PPV, let alone the main event of a Mania that featured Shawn vs. Taker doing what they did. The ending sucked, and for once the crowd backed that opinion up. The hush over the place when HHH got the most anti-climatic pin of the decade spoke for itself. They've blown some money feuds before, but looking at how Randy began getting his ultimate mega push in December, how hot he was following his punt to McMahon, and how great the first 4-5 weeks of the HHH feud was, you could argue this was their biggest dropping of the ball in years. Then to make things worse, they stretched it out until well in to the Summer, with it getting worse and worse every time out. Last man standing on Raw aside. Oh yeah, and that was the THIRD last man standing match the two had wrestled in against one another. When you have three of the same gimmick match over the duration of your feuds, it's time to pull the plug on it. That match made Mania end on a terribly sour note. If it happened to be Wrestlemania 24 or 26, you know Orton would have won that. But since it was the 25th Anni, they just HAD to have the good guy win it. So they just gave Orton the belt 3 weeks later. I wish they just went with what is the right thing to do for the story. When Orton lost, that's when the Orton character started to lose some steam.
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Tombi
Team Rocket
Posts: 995
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Post by Tombi on Dec 31, 2009 13:23:10 GMT -5
Never should have followed Taker-HBK. You think Trips would've learned after following Hogan-Rock. I don't think he had a say in it, honestly. The rumors at the time mentioned Shawn and Taker wanting the title match to end the show due to being more important, and that seems to be what happens every year - Flair/Shawn being another example. I don't know if you happened to see the very-much lambasted Slammy Awards Raw - but one commendable thing to come out of that show was Triple H denouncing the match and how he knew he could never stand a chance following it; so yeah, I'd say he's learnt by now. The match was a good Raw main event, but yeah - no place ending Mania. They really need to take a step back for a change and realize that "World title match" does not and should not always mean "main event" - even if The Wrestlers would prefer it that way.
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Post by James McCloud IS John Godot on Dec 31, 2009 13:27:41 GMT -5
Match could've followed Taker/Michaels just fine if it wasn't, you know, crap.
As others have said, it would have made a fine TV match but for a 'Mania main event? Nope. Pop in the DVD if you have it and skip straight to the match. Watch it. It's still bland, dull and has a crap finish even though you didn't just watch Taker/Michaels.
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Post by The Verdict on Dec 31, 2009 13:39:42 GMT -5
it was a bad match that was slow and killed all of Orton's momentum for the rest of the year. What was there to like?
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Post by mauled on Dec 31, 2009 14:05:29 GMT -5
To be honest what made it worse for me was it felt like Hunter part 3 at wresltemania. As in 18 with Jericho (where a similar thing happened following Hogan/Rock) and 19 with Booker T it just felt like Hunter squashing another potential rival for his spot.
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Post by triplealbert on Dec 31, 2009 14:19:40 GMT -5
I couldn't believe they started by hitting their finishers. took the wind out!
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Post by Rorschach on Dec 31, 2009 14:19:53 GMT -5
The match was a paint by numbers mid card match on a Raw. I didn't think it brought the quality to be a main event on a PPV, let alone the main event of a Mania that featured Shawn vs. Taker doing what they did. The ending sucked, and for once the crowd backed that opinion up. The hush over the place when HHH got the most anti-climatic pin of the decade spoke for itself. Oh, not to mention the wrong man won. They've blown some money feuds before, but looking at how Randy began getting his ultimate mega push in December, how hot he was following his punt to McMahon, and how great the first 4-5 weeks of the HHH feud was, you could argue this was their biggest dropping of the ball in years. Then to make things worse, they stretched it out until well in to the Summer, with it getting worse and worse every time out. Last man standing on Raw aside. Oh yeah, and that was the THIRD last man standing match the two had wrestled in against one another. When you have three of the same gimmick match over the duration of your feuds, it's time to pull the plug on it. That match made Mania end on a terribly sour note. Agreed. The apologists can shift blame all they want, but this one was Hunter's "pet" angle, and he and he alone is responsible for it failing as epically as it did. Orton was on FIRE after the McMahon punt, and then when HHH got involved, Randy went from being a credible, up and coming legit threat heel, to an absolute cowardly goof who couldn't get one up on Hunter to save his life. What made THAT worse for me was that, I mean, how many times have we seen Hunter the Great play the nigh unstoppable badass in roles like this, when HE's the heel? Orton should have clearly been booked to be absolutely DOMINANT in this feud...for f*** sake, he has TWO (sometimes three) GUYS backing him up! And all three of them couldn't take out the H-1000 Terminator that Hunter turned into? BS. Pure BS. Had Orton been booked to be dominant, Hunter winning out at Mania would have been much more well recieved, IMO. I mean, how dramatic is it to beat a goofy chickens**** who can't do a damn thing right? Add the fact that you're following a very dramatic match in it's own right, and it's just....it's a bad idea from the get go.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Dec 31, 2009 17:20:58 GMT -5
First I'll talk aboout the match at Mania, then the feud overall.
Match:
For a storyline stand point, Orton needed to lose that match. He kills every McMahon and that's when the hero (Triple H) makes the save and wins the final battle. How that doesn't make sense to people is beyond me.
One problem in my eyes is Orton should've been champ going in so Triple H saves the family, but also gets the Title.
Now the match wasn't great and couldn't follw HBK/Taker (nothing coluld) plus the stupid Kid Rock concert took time away as well, but it wasn't horrible.
Overall Feud: Yes it was boring and went to long, noone can deny that.
Now what should've happen in my opinion was Orton gets his rematch for title in a Cage, 3 Stages of Hell, whatever the McMahons wanted to do to screw with him. Then Orton would loses and either be put on the shelf or just move straight into another feud..
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 31, 2009 17:24:59 GMT -5
It was a crappy PPV in general. HBK/Undertaker was about the only thing worth giving a crap about.
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Post by rrm15 on Dec 31, 2009 17:25:33 GMT -5
The feud in and of itself was great, and completely logical: Orton goes on a rampage against the McMhaon family, and Hunter steps in to help his family.
The problem? The WWE title. To this day, I don't think that match should have been for the world title. It was a grudge feud based entirely on the twos animosity towards each other. The WWE title was, in every way, an after thought. Hell, you had the champion pretty much calling out the challenger, who had won the Royal Rumble to earn the right against Triple H. The whole thing was backwards.
The match shouldn't have been the main event.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2009 17:56:21 GMT -5
It should of been a No DQ match or something with the kind of hatred they had for each other in that angle. However I may get flamed here but I agree with HHH winning. But it should of been by something flukey like a roll up pin after being dominated.
Then after Triple H wins I would have Orton and Legacy team up on Triple H followed by a punt kick on Triple H. Then Randy Orton holds the belt over the fallen Triple H and the McMahons and Batista rush in to check on Triple H. Orton leaves with the belt.
What made it worse was that Triple H left a month later. This would of created a really interesting Wrestlemania moment and would of made you want to watch Raw the next night really bad.
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Post by hbk4ever09 on Dec 31, 2009 18:04:29 GMT -5
Hitting the finishers early was one of the most pointless booking decisions i've ever seen. It was like an excuse for them to work the match slow and uneventful the rest of the way in their "weakened" state. I also thought they would do more with HHH cheating to win. I also think they ran out of time, as in one of the botchamania vid you hear the ref say "3 minutes, take it home" and HHH and orton kinda have "oh shit" looks on their faces.
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Dec 31, 2009 19:01:03 GMT -5
The match was a paint by numbers mid card match on a Raw. I didn't think it brought the quality to be a main event on a PPV, let alone the main event of a Mania that featured Shawn vs. Taker doing what they did. The ending sucked, and for once the crowd backed that opinion up. The hush over the place when HHH got the most anti-climatic pin of the decade spoke for itself. Oh, not to mention the wrong man won. They've blown some money feuds before, but looking at how Randy began getting his ultimate mega push in December, how hot he was following his punt to McMahon, and how great the first 4-5 weeks of the HHH feud was, you could argue this was their biggest dropping of the ball in years. Then to make things worse, they stretched it out until well in to the Summer, with it getting worse and worse every time out. Last man standing on Raw aside. Oh yeah, and that was the THIRD last man standing match the two had wrestled in against one another. When you have three of the same gimmick match over the duration of your feuds, it's time to pull the plug on it. That match made Mania end on a terribly sour note. Agreed. The apologists can shift blame all they want, but this one was Hunter's "pet" angle, and he and he alone is responsible for it failing as epically as it did. Orton was on FIRE after the McMahon punt, and then when HHH got involved, Randy went from being a credible, up and coming legit threat heel, to an absolute cowardly goof who couldn't get one up on Hunter to save his life. What made THAT worse for me was that, I mean, how many times have we seen Hunter the Great play the nigh unstoppable badass in roles like this, when HE's the heel? Orton should have clearly been booked to be absolutely DOMINANT in this feud...for f*** sake, he has TWO (sometimes three) GUYS backing him up! And all three of them couldn't take out the H-1000 Terminator that Hunter turned into? BS. Pure BS. Had Orton been booked to be dominant, Hunter winning out at Mania would have been much more well recieved, IMO. I mean, how dramatic is it to beat a goofy chickens**** who can't do a damn thing right? Add the fact that you're following a very dramatic match in it's own right, and it's just....it's a bad idea from the get go. You know what would have saved the match? DRAMA. For me, Orton HAD to win this match. But that wasn't what they wanted, so a better way to do it would have been to amp up the drama, Attitude-era style. -First off, none of that BS "if Hunter gets DQ'd, he loses the title" crap. This needed to be no-DQ, or at least be flexibly officiated. -Midway through the match, Orton and HHH are down. Stephanie comes down to cheer on. Tease that she's going to turn on Hunter. -The ref gets bumped, HHH and Orton fight over the sledge hammer. As Orton is about to hit HHH with it, Steph comes in to take the weapon from Orton's hands. Legacy comes out and they have Stephanie surrounded. -Shane comes out and tries fighting off Legacy, but gets beaten down. This is optional, since it's really only building to... -At HHH and Stephanie's most dire moment, BATISTA'S music hits! This is what I didn't understand. They ended up having him make a surprise return to Raw THE VERY NEXT NIGHT. So why in the hell wouldn't you have just used him at Wrestlemania? Give the people something to buzz about going into Raw the next night. Make the people who didn't order it feel like they really missed something. Anyway, Batista cleans house, gives Orton a spinebuster. HHH recovers, punts Orton in the head, and retains the title. Decent drama that pops a crowd, instead of the underbooked snorefest we got.
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Post by YellowJacketY2J on Dec 31, 2009 19:06:08 GMT -5
I don't like the excuse "The crowd was dead during the match because of Taker/Shawn". Cena/Show/Edge immediately followed Taker/Shawn and that match got a reaction. I believe the crowd just truly didn't like HHH/Orton as a match.
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