Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,005
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 4, 2010 0:27:54 GMT -5
Its been argued that this coming episode of RAW, featuring the return of Bret Hart, is a direct reaction to TNA's Monday night debut featuring Hogan. Some have scoffed at the notion, others are certain. I am kind of somewhere in between. I think we might be seeing what I would call a "classic Vince" tactic. Lets not forget, a big part of how Vince took down the old NWA back in the 80's was to run big shows opposite theirs. The first Survivor Series was intended to dominate the PPV audience and draw off from the NWA's show on the same night. We might be seeing the same tactic used here. However, I do not think Vince deliberately planned it out that way. I believe Bret's return was already slated to happen some time this year. But it is likely that when he learned of TNA's plans to bring in Hogan on a Monday night show, that he decided to speed up the timetable a bit. Its always nice to draw a big number, but to do it at the expense of any competition probably sweetens the deal. Just a theory.
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Lino
Samurai Cop
We are one.
Posts: 2,301
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Post by Lino on Jan 4, 2010 1:06:38 GMT -5
Classic case of Vince being Vince. Bret wouldn't be making his return tonight had TNA never struck that deal with Hogan and gotten the timeslot.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Jan 4, 2010 1:13:08 GMT -5
Classic case of Vince being Vince. Bret wouldn't be making his return tonight had TNA never struck that deal with Hogan and gotten the timeslot. This
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Post by Parker Stiles on Jan 4, 2010 1:17:09 GMT -5
needs more El Dandy
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Post by American Dragon on Jan 4, 2010 1:19:39 GMT -5
Classic case of Vince being Vince. Bret wouldn't be making his return tonight had TNA never struck that deal with Hogan and gotten the timeslot. I thought Bret was speculated to be returning before Hogan in TNA was even announced.
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Lino
Samurai Cop
We are one.
Posts: 2,301
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Post by Lino on Jan 4, 2010 1:26:35 GMT -5
Classic case of Vince being Vince. Bret wouldn't be making his return tonight had TNA never struck that deal with Hogan and gotten the timeslot. I thought Bret was speculated to be returning before Hogan in TNA was even announced. Yeah, but I doubt they would've chosen January 4th to do it.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,005
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 4, 2010 1:27:40 GMT -5
I thought Bret was speculated to be returning before Hogan in TNA was even announced. Yeah, but I doubt they would've chosen January 4th to do it. Exactly the case I made. They no doubt had it in mind well in advance. But TNA announcing Hogan's debut probably made up Vince's mind about when to bring Bret back.
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Post by corndog on Jan 4, 2010 1:45:37 GMT -5
I believe Bret was already well into negotiations with the WWE when the TNA Jan. 4th show was announced. However I agree his appearance was moved to the January 4th Raw to compete with TNA's show. I wouldn't be surprised if they were going to save Bret for a ppv or a later Raw. It also makes me wonder, what if this causes Vince to go nuts and decide to put TNA out of business like he did to Jim Crockett in the 80s. I doubt it though, TNA isn't as much of a threat as the NWA was at that point and Vince isn't as ambitous as he was then.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 4, 2010 2:31:29 GMT -5
I honestly hope so. I'd love to see Vince get paranoid and start trying to run TNA out of town, because it'd force both companies to put forth their best efforts and give us more good wrestling to watch.
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Jan 4, 2010 2:35:46 GMT -5
Well, RAW has been on Monday nights at this hour for so many years...it's not like he created an event to oppose the TNA show like he did with the Survivor Series opposing Starrcade. The TNA show moved itself to RAW's time slot for one night. Not a bad idea mind you, the wrestling demographic has a well-shaped habit of watching wrestling Monday nights, so might as well try to get them to tune in while they're already sitting on their couches.
Hart hosting the show is the latest in a long series of one-night hosts. I don't believe we're going to see something earth-shattering on the WWE side of things monday. I don't believe WWE is doing ANYTHING special quite frankly, TNA is creating the event and the hype with an actual change in direction for their company accompanying the show. And even then, the results remain to be seen. People expect so much, they're setting themselves up to be dissapointed.
So, in my opinion, WWE is not doing much else than staying the course trying to intercept TNA.
And what else would they do? They can't do anything that would be earth-shattering. It's not like they can hire somebody that is available at this time that would dramatically improve their ratings and hurt TNA even more, because if they could do that, they would do it notwithstanding TNA.
Kickstart a company face-changing storyline? Oh, this is all a big movie, so yeah you can start something that would shake the foundations of the temple so to speak. When Ventura hosted, he stumbled upon something when he hinted that Cena was a part of some insidious control scheme that kept him on top, I loved it, because I don't see it as the traditional Attitude era Corporate deal, but more of a Patriots/Philosopher's Legacy deal where a group of individuals (Vince, Stephanie, JR, HHH, Shawn, Undertaker) have been controlling WWE for years, manipulating everything for their gain and solely their gain, in this case, keeping Cena on top. From there on, you can say that Orton has been knowing this all along and had formed Legacy to fight it...a ton of fun.
And with Hart coming in, why not make him the prophet, the messiah, the immortal icon of a large stable of anti-sports-entertainment WRESTLERS who want to take WWE down? Something as drastic as the NWO/Heisei Ishingun model of stable. I mean, wtf not???
But no they won't do that, you'll get a vignette between DX and Hart that won't lead to anything and that's it, because as much as WWE want to say that they are selling stories, they ain't telling many good ones.
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Post by slasher911 on Jan 4, 2010 2:57:27 GMT -5
Maybe they just wanted the first RAW of the year to be a big deal and planned it months in advance?
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 4, 2010 3:20:37 GMT -5
Maybe they just wanted the first RAW of the year to be a big deal and planned it months in advance? RAW honestly doesn't seem like it's even planned one day in advance.
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Post by canadianheel on Jan 4, 2010 3:31:03 GMT -5
It'll be interesting to see. Vince battled WCW and before that unified the territories or drove them under. WWF/WWE had never really had peace like we've seen for so many years with only one company. Alot of time has passed and it would be interesting to know how much Vince's thinking has changed. I'm guessing I would agree with Bret being in the works before but sped up. A rival is good for the product I think but it's not good for business(money wise) so I think Vince wants to put together a storyline and nights that will hopefully(for him) bury TNA and send them back to Thursdays without hope of a Spike giving them Mondays so Vince can keep business as usual.
I also get a laugh out of the people saying just wait until Vince pulls all these rabbits out of his hat and makes the product so good. Well I don't know if that's the case. If Vince had some great ideas that would raise the WWE product to new heights do you really think he would just sit on it while all that unearned money from the angle sits on the table? I don't know Vince is still the same Vince or his supporting backstage cast has changed enough and enough years have passed that he's a different owner.
Food for thought.
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Post by Impact Zone's #1 DUMMY...YEAH on Jan 4, 2010 3:47:22 GMT -5
Maybe they just wanted the first RAW of the year to be a big deal and planned it months in advance? RAW honestly doesn't seem like it's even planned 5 minutes in advance. Fixed for you.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Jan 4, 2010 9:35:04 GMT -5
when Vince and Ventura did commentary that was classic Vince
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 4, 2010 9:37:16 GMT -5
It's not classic Vince. It's VINTAGE Vince.
Who is saying that WWE isn't doing it because of TNA. Of course he's doing it because of TNA. Why else would he also have two finishes to two feuds on the same day as well.
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Post by Thunderbolt on Jan 4, 2010 17:01:53 GMT -5
It's not classic Vince. It's VINTAGE Vince. Drat, you beat me to it! VINTAGE VINCE would be him making out with a diva on TV at this point. How old are Bret's daughters? If one of them is 18+, and Vince manages to "VINTAGE VINCE~!" her at some point within the next four months, I'll mark so hard I plotz.
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azz0r
Dennis Stamp
Ex 4 month ruling Wrestlecrap PPV Prediction Champion
Posts: 3,696
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Post by azz0r on Jan 4, 2010 17:04:44 GMT -5
Classic case of Vince being Vince. Bret wouldn't be making his return tonight had TNA never struck that deal with Hogan and gotten the timeslot. Nah don't believe it. It would have taken months of negotiations, planning and creative control agreements to get Bret in leading up to mania.
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Post by Curt Hawkins Fan on Jan 4, 2010 17:05:04 GMT -5
Wasn't the Jan 4th slot speculated to be The Rock before TNA's announcement? It seems today had been planned for quite some time.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,005
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 4, 2010 21:40:05 GMT -5
I believe Bret was already well into negotiations with the WWE when the TNA Jan. 4th show was announced. However I agree his appearance was moved to the January 4th Raw to compete with TNA's show. I wouldn't be surprised if they were going to save Bret for a ppv or a later Raw. It also makes me wonder, what if this causes Vince to go nuts and decide to put TNA out of business like he did to Jim Crockett in the 80s. I doubt it though, TNA isn't as much of a threat as the NWA was at that point and Vince isn't as ambitous as he was then. Well, at the time Vince was in the midst of a drive for dominance. It was not because he really regarded Crocket or even Gagne as a threat to his business. It was just because he wanted to be the only player in town. And even at its height, WCW was not a "threat" to Vince per se. In reality, he was never at risk of having to shut down his company forever. He was at risk of losing a lot of money and any promising young talent. TNA is no risk to Vince right now. The only thing that was at risk tonight was having some of his audience sucked away. And as noted, on the first show of a new year, that would definitely not be the ideal way to start a new year. Well, whatever happens, I hope TNA can learn some lessons from tonights show and apply them going forward.
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