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Post by Enrico Palazzo on Feb 20, 2010 16:11:45 GMT -5
But that's precisely WHY it's brilliant. Austin has beaten Rock before, but The Rock has grown since they last met and so Austin can't beat him clean this time. So he has to enlist McMahon and a steel chair, as he steadily loses grip of his sanity (see: 'What?' and him talking to his watch and cuddling McMahon) in his insane pursuit of the world title, desperate to be recognised as the baddest son of a bitch in the world again instead of this young upstart stealing his glory. And yes, that would be an obvious crowd-pleasing decision, and subverting what the crowd wants is a brilliant choice and exactly what was needed. That's what made it good booking. If the crowd knows what's coming why should they give a s***? It was instant heat. While not related to WM17, this basically sums up my feelings on Austin's heel turn. His insecurity at being the best and being usurped, was incredible, especially recruiting the young, hungry Triple H (who had beat him earlier that year) and then dismissing him when he became obsolete (or injured). Then he sucked up to Vince, and lashed out when he wasn't appreciated, possibly validating his belief that he was no longer the 'man'. Fantastic storyline progression. The idiotic face turn is a different story.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 20, 2010 23:53:51 GMT -5
But that's precisely WHY it's brilliant. Austin has beaten Rock before, but The Rock has grown since they last met and so Austin can't beat him clean this time. So he has to enlist McMahon and a steel chair, as he steadily loses grip of his sanity (see: 'What?' and him talking to his watch and cuddling McMahon) in his insane pursuit of the world title, desperate to be recognised as the baddest son of a bitch in the world again instead of this young upstart stealing his glory. And yes, that would be an obvious crowd-pleasing decision, and subverting what the crowd wants is a brilliant choice and exactly what was needed. That's what made it good booking. If the crowd knows what's coming why should they give a s***? It was instant heat. While not related to WM17, this basically sums up my feelings on Austin's heel turn. His insecurity at being the best and being usurped, was incredible, especially recruiting the young, hungry Triple H (who had beat him earlier that year) and then dismissing him when he became obsolete (or injured). Then he sucked up to Vince, and lashed out when he wasn't appreciated, possibly validating his belief that he was no longer the 'man'. Fantastic storyline progression. The idiotic face turn is a different story. I also think that the fact that Austin was now cowardly wasnt just a random ''Im a heel now so i should be scared of the babyfaces', but rather because the character of Stone Cold had literally became doubtful of himself, snapped and became a desperate man. Desperate to still be loved and appreciated and even more desperate to be champion. Austin's acting of being a paranoid nut job was pitch perfect and often hilarious. I often wish he would have stayed heel for good after this. 2001 Austin was my favourite era of Stone Cold (incredible character, incredible matches after the neck surgery). Such a shame that by 2002, the newly face Austin was a shadow of his former self. At least the stpid face turn gave us the supermarket brawl with booker, and (eventually) his WM 19 match with The Rock.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Feb 21, 2010 0:59:00 GMT -5
Good, fast-paced opening match to get the crowd hot? Check: Jericho/Regal.
Backstage roaming, multiple random weapon-using, lulz-inducing hardcore match? Check: Kane/Big Show/ Raven
Awesome technical wrestling contest? Check: Angle/Benoit.
Drama-filled street fight? Check: Shane/Vince.
A classic tag-team match filled with run-ins and highspots? Check: TLC II.
Big nostalgia kick with hilarious commentary by Heenan and Okerlund? Check: Gimmick Battle Royal.
Great brawler that goes into the crowd filled with big power moves? Check: HHH/Taker.
Amazingly dramatic main event that combines elements of technical and hardcore-wrestling with great sequences of finisher-trading, a crowd on their feet and a brilliant finish? Check: Austin/Rock.
The best pay-per-view of all time. There was something for everyone's taste, and it all felt important and had great payoffs.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Feb 21, 2010 10:12:31 GMT -5
Yep, heel nutjob Austin was by far my favourite incarnation of his character.
I also think it was the greatest period of his career as far as straight wrestling is concerned. Since becoming Austin he had great matches, but for out-and-out wrestling he was on top of his game during his 2001 run.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 21, 2010 18:18:28 GMT -5
Yep, heel nutjob Austin was by far my favourite incarnation of his character. I also think it was the greatest period of his career as far as straight wrestling is concerned. Since becoming Austin he had great matches, but for out-and-out wrestling he was on top of his game during his 2001 run. 96/97 Austin had great matches. 98/99 Austin was probably the most over wrestler ever and his matches were still highly entertaining, but they relied on brawling to cover up his neck injury. Plus Austin and Undertaker couldnt have a good match togther to save their lives. 2000/2001 Austin was extremely consistent in terms of fantastic matches. Especially once he turned heel. It was like he knew it was his last run on top and gave it his all.
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Thrillho
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Post by Thrillho on Feb 21, 2010 23:02:05 GMT -5
I'm watching WMX7 now after reading this thread.
The opening video package where they show people all over the world watching various Wrestlemanias ends with a woman taking her Gurkha off in order to get a better view of the TV screen. I never noticed that before. Imagine if they tried that today.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Feb 22, 2010 9:46:31 GMT -5
Yep, heel nutjob Austin was by far my favourite incarnation of his character. I also think it was the greatest period of his career as far as straight wrestling is concerned. Since becoming Austin he had great matches, but for out-and-out wrestling he was on top of his game during his 2001 run. 96/97 Austin had great matches. 98/99 Austin was probably the most over wrestler ever and his matches were still highly entertaining, but they relied on brawling to cover up his neck injury. Plus Austin and Undertaker couldnt have a good match togther to save their lives. 2000/2001 Austin was extremely consistent in terms of fantastic matches. Especially once he turned heel. It was like he knew it was his last run on top and gave it his all. Precisely. I'm not trying to downplay his earlier run, and I'm sure in his pre-Stone Cold days he had some amazing matches too. But in '01 I think it was just the greatest wrestling he ever did. At least he went out on an amazing match too.
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Feb 22, 2010 10:16:45 GMT -5
With hindsight the Austin heel turn doesn't look too good for the numerous reasons stated. However at the time I think it was an incredibly brave decision and one you have to say well done to the WWE for.
They didn't keep Austin as a stale babyface just because he sold loads of merch, they wanted to freshen him up.
As for the PPV I think it is as perfect a wrestling show as you can get. The attitue era gets a lot of criticism these days but when you watch Wrestlemania 17 with great match after great match an incredibly hot crowd and the perfect example of what a Wrestlemania main event epic should be I don't see how people can prefer todays WWE.
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