defdave
AC Slater
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Post by defdave on Jan 5, 2010 3:28:55 GMT -5
Defdave: I fail to see how ANYONE in this thread has been DISHONEST with you. You keep screaming about honesty, but all I'm seeing....is someone who's not being told what he WANTS to hear. I know that I and many others HAVE honestly answered your question that you put in bold in your last post. Several times in fact. But I'll do it one more time: I was hugely entertained by TNA tonight, despite the less than perfect show, and despite the bits with the older guys that I didn't really care for. I feel that tonight's iMPACT was way better than what we got on RAW. At least, it seemed more fresh, more exuberant and more energized than the "going through the motions" we got on RAW. Exactly two things entertained me on RAW that had nothing to do with Bret: The Miz, and the Bourne/Sheamus match. First of all, thank you for you response, man. But to further clarify what I mean when I refer to "honesty": I'm talking about biases. I see rampant biases both ways here on this board (as well as many others) and I'm really tired of it. People aren't honest. They see one federation through rose-colored glasses and the other through ****-stained glasses. That has to end. We have to be honest and feel free to criticize either promotion for it's short-comings, and at the same time we have got to PRAISE the rival promotion for what it does right. Honesty, not bias. That is what I'm talking about. Maybe not so much just in this thread, but on this board and the overall internet wrestling community....definitely. All the "brand-ism" seems to me to be ridiculous. Let's just be objective and calls things as we see them. That's all I'm asking for man.
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defdave
AC Slater
Llllllllet's get ready to rumblllllllle!
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Post by defdave on Jan 5, 2010 3:32:28 GMT -5
Well....I guess it's all about perspective. Maybe it's only me and a FEW other people on THIS board, but iMPACT! entertained the hell out of me. But it really all comes down to what exactly you're looking for in a wrestling product. I really think so many of us have sooo many differing opinions on what a pro wrestling show SHOULD be. To me, TNA tonight was faaaar from what I REALLY want in a wrestling show, but still...it was better than Raw and it actually entertained me, which is more than I can say for WWE for the past few years. Any further argument about TNA seems to me to be really just erroneous. The question is: Are you, as a wrestling fan more entertained by what we saw tonight on iMPACT! with Hogan, Flair, and Hardy's debut and Angle vs. AJ....
OR.....are YOU as a wrestling fan more entertained by what we saw on Raw with Bret's return and DX squashing Jerishow.It all comes down to wrestling preferences. What do you REALLY want to see when you watch a wrestling show? Let's be honest, guys! I know I keep saying that, but I don't think the point has been made yet. As for me, I wasn't sure before, but now I'm DEFINITELY sure. Count me as a TNA fan from here on out. After tonight, I'm all about TNA and I can't wait to see the next episode of iMPACT!. We may disagree on the show tonight defdave but I give you credit where credit is due, this post sums it all up perfectly. As for me? I'm going to wait and see, I'll watch Impact again next thursday. but there's a lot of ground they need to cover to keep my intrest This is what I'm talking about, Rorschach. Showstealer has critical opinions about TNA, but he's honest about how he feels and I appreciate that. There aren't enough people like that online. We need more people who are willing to argue one point, then concede another, then counter with another point, and so on and so on. THAT is good debate. And THAT is what the "iwc" is sorely missing (in my opinion at least). EDIT: Just to further clarify: There's so much of the "I don't like EXAMPLE A because I just simply don't like EXAMPLE A." Even though EXAMPLE B is also an offender on whatever issue the complainer is complaining about. That's not honest. That's bias. That's what I'm sick of.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,205
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 5, 2010 3:34:09 GMT -5
I feel that tonight's iMPACT was way better than what we got on RAW. At least, it seemed more fresh, more exuberant and more energized than the "going through the motions" we got on RAW. I think this pretty much sums it up. TNA's show tonight felt like it had more energy, like the talent was more enthusiastic about what they had going on. Aside from ECW, WWE almost never feels that way anymore. Everybody on RAW and SD! have just settled into the grind, and it feels like nothing's ever going anywhere, most of the time. TNA had a kinetic aspect tonight, where the show was actually moving, and not just spinning its wheels.
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Post by Rorschach on Jan 5, 2010 3:34:20 GMT -5
Defdave: Ok, gotcha now. Didn't understand you before.
Thank you for the explanation, too...and I completely agree. Too many people (myself included at times) DO let their biases speak for them, and if we want to fairly judge these things, there can be no bias. We DO need to call (for lack of a better term) a spade a spade and say what was good and what sucked WITHOUT using the crutch of brand or company biases.
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defdave
AC Slater
Llllllllet's get ready to rumblllllllle!
Posts: 196
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Post by defdave on Jan 5, 2010 3:37:51 GMT -5
Defdave: Ok, gotcha now. Didn't understand you before. Thank you for the explanation, too...and I completely agree. Too many people (myself included at times) DO let their biases speak for them, and if we want to fairly judge these things, there can be no bias. We DO need to call (for lack of a better term) a spade a spade and say what was good and what sucked WITHOUT using the crutch of brand or company biases. Thanks, Rorschach. I, like you, just want some "sensible" arguments rather than this whole "fan-boy" approach so many posters seem to take all too often. Admittedly, I will also need to be careful in the future as well because I think I'm becoming more of a TNA "fan-boy" after tonight. lol
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Post by Rorschach on Jan 5, 2010 3:43:59 GMT -5
Defdave: Ok, gotcha now. Didn't understand you before. Thank you for the explanation, too...and I completely agree. Too many people (myself included at times) DO let their biases speak for them, and if we want to fairly judge these things, there can be no bias. We DO need to call (for lack of a better term) a spade a spade and say what was good and what sucked WITHOUT using the crutch of brand or company biases. Thanks, Rorschach. I, like you, just want some "sensible" arguments rather than this whole "fan-boy" approach so many posters seem to take all too often. Admittedly, I will also need to be careful in the future as well because I think I'm becoming more of a TNA "fan-boy" after tonight. lol It's contagious, it really is. I mean, I want more than anything for TNA to become competition for Vince and company, if for no other reason than the fact that it's good for BOTH companies in the long run, if done correctly. Besides that fact, we seen the landscape and how it looks with only ONE big company on the map. It's bleak and depressing as hell, IMO. I was more excited for a Monday night tonight than I have been for a LONG time. For that, Dixie and TNA get a HUGE thank you and my gratitude. If only for ONE night, you made being a wrestling fan FUN again. Thank you, TNA! ;D
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Post by Clarence "Showstealer" Mason on Jan 5, 2010 3:45:10 GMT -5
We may disagree on the show tonight defdave but I give you credit where credit is due, this post sums it all up perfectly. As for me? I'm going to wait and see, I'll watch Impact again next thursday. but there's a lot of ground they need to cover to keep my intrest This is what I'm talking about, Rorschach. Showstealer has critical opinions about TNA, but he's honest about how he feels and I appreciate that. There aren't enough people like that online. We need more people who are willing to argue one point, then concede another, then counter with another point, and so on and so on. THAT is good debate. And THAT is what the "iwc" is sorely missing (in my opinion at least). EDIT: Just to further clarify: There's so much of the "I don't like EXAMPLE A because I just simply don't like EXAMPLE A." Even though EXAMPLE B is also an offender on whatever issue the complainer is complaining about. That's not honest. That's bias. That's what I'm sick of. To be fair though, I wasn't attacking TNA because I'm a WWE mark. A LOT of Raw was terrible in my eyes too, which I might expand on in the WWE forum I guess looking at it now, while Impact in my eyes apart from the main event was terrible, it's more that I'm dissapointed rather than angry. As I said it just seems to me that instead of planting the flag and saying "This is who we are, we're different and you should take notice" in my eyes they took a step backwards. I'm not saying I'll never watch TNA again, I'll see how it all plays out. I guess what I'm trying to say (And this will be the last thing I'll say on it for now) is that going into tonight I was hoping to come out happy that there were good shows, there may be good competition and there may be some alternative finally to the WWE. But sitting here right now, I just don't feel that, I feel disappointed and sad as it is to say, more blame for that feeling for me lies with TNA than it does for WWE
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Jan 5, 2010 3:45:53 GMT -5
I dvr'd raw(more on that later)
After watching Impact all i can say is AMAZING* i'm not sure what episode of nitro some people here saw but what i saw was TNA really upping there game. Overall tonights show excited me in a way i thought i'd never feel again, As for raw alot better then usual but nothing amazing.
Add: A cookie to the OP for far to long iv'e seen certain posters come to this forum and leave potshot remarks and/or thinly veiled insults to TNA fans.
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Post by snugglecakes on Jan 5, 2010 3:54:13 GMT -5
Wow, I guess I watched a completely different Impact, I thought it was pretty poor. It was like watching Nitro from '00.
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defdave
AC Slater
Llllllllet's get ready to rumblllllllle!
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Post by defdave on Jan 5, 2010 4:02:31 GMT -5
^^^Like I stated previously...we're just going to have to agree to disagree, snugglecakes (makes me uncomfortable typing your name btw lol).
Your idea of a good wrestling show is just different than mine and that's just how it is. I'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine.
Was I 100% pleased with iMPACT? Hell no. There's soooo much I would have changed if I had my way. But to me, it was still MUCH more entertaining than Raw (except for the Bret Hart segments which were great to see after all these years of waiting).
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defdave
AC Slater
Llllllllet's get ready to rumblllllllle!
Posts: 196
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Post by defdave on Jan 5, 2010 4:04:38 GMT -5
I dvr'd raw(more on that later) After watching Impact all i can say is AMAZING* i'm not sure what episode of nitro some people here saw but what i saw was TNA really upping there game. Overall tonights show excited me in a way i thought i'd never feel again, As for raw alot better then usual but nothing amazing. Add: A cookie to the OP for far to long iv'e seen certain posters come to this forum and leave potshot remarks and/or thinly veiled insults to TNA fans. Thanks. I'm with ya, man. That's why I created this positive thread. I had begun to feel like..."If I don't say it, who the hell will?" what with all the anti-TNA sentiment here. Tasty cookie by the way. Very good. Did you bake it yourself?
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
A man without gimmick.
Posts: 39,683
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Jan 5, 2010 9:16:21 GMT -5
Looks like I'm going to make some enemies here, because it was one of the worst Impacts I've ever seen. Remember a few months ago when it looked like they were finally turning the page and allowing new faces to shine? Remember when it looked like Matt Morgan and Hernandez were on their way to the main event? Remember when it seemed like Jeff Jarrett was gone forever and with him would go the old, stale mode of operations?
Well, here comes Hulk Hogan to screw everything up.
Let's start with a cage match that ends in a no-contest. Really? A CAGE MATCH?!? Not to mention that you couldn't keep up with any of the action because the camera work was so bad, and the match was only used to set up the debut of Relic #1 (Jeff Hardy). On the biggest night in your company's history, you don't want your fans chanting "THIS IS BULLSHIT" directly out of the gate.
Next we move on to a painfully short Knockouts title match that ends with the dreaded rollup-with-the-tights finish, that is quickly cut away from so we can take a look at Relic #2 (Ric Flair).
Then we go nearly an hour without any wrestling at all, featuring more relics hanging around, a Diva Strip Poker game to set up the debut of another relic, and cutaways to Hogan's motorcade every three minutes, the concept of which was completely blown to pieces when Hogan said he was in the back all day talking to the wrestlers. And did anybody else get a Bischoff/Russo vibe when Bischoff said he was "starting all over again", in an "all titles are vacated" kind of way?
Finally we get another match, and finally it's a good match. I'm looking forward to the Kong/Hamada tag team and hope they have a dominating reign, which isn't cut nearly as short as Tara's two weeks of "thanks for playing".
Let's move on to The Pope cutting a scintillating promo, only to be interrupted by Orlando Jordan holding a can of Surge 5-Hour Energy Shot. This is followed by Pope beating Desmond Wolfe. Now, I like the Pope and I think he's destined for great things. But didn't Desmond Wolfe recently go toe-to-toe with Kurt Angle and nearly beat him several times? That should put him amongst the elite in TNA. Now he can't even last five minutes against a midcarder?
But then again, who cares about the midcard when we can go to another backstage segment and laugh about how fat Brian Knobbs is? I'm surprised his big fat head could fit through the door.
But wait a minute! Jeff Jarrett's in his way to the Impact Zone! We'll find out what he's up to after this commercial break!
We're back! Jeff Jarrett's on his way to the Impact Zone! We'll find out what he's up to after this commercial break!
We're back! Jeff Jarrett is STILL on his way to the Impact Zone! What the hell is taking him so long?
And then we finally get to hear what Jarrett has to say, only to be interrupted by Hogan (again) while the camera cuts to Dixie Carter looking like she's going to throw up.
Furthermore, we have two matches that end up getting either cancelled or reworked, althought Abyss vs. Joe was an alright contest. But Beer Money is supposed to be their top team. Why not have them in a match on "The biggest night in TNA history"?
Let's go backstage to conduct an interview with Christopher Daniels, who is facing a crossroads in his caree...screw that, Mick Foley's trying to get into the Impact Zone.
Finally we get an excellent match in Styles vs. Angle, which I was afraid would get thrown out because of the masked man's attack, but fortunately they felt that they'd screwed the fans over enough and let it continue. But of course, the biggest joke in the entire match was Tenay screaming (yes, he's gone back to SCREAMING) that Impact would stay with this match, that they would not go to commercial break until they had a winner. And what happens literally one second later? Commercial break. That almost completely took the excitement of the match out of me.
But when it's all over, we can't possibly let Styles and Angle bask in their own glory, can we? Nope, here comes Hulk Hogan to hog the spotlight again. The show ends with, not two of the best wrestlers in the world celebrating a great match, but the nWo beating up Mick Foley. And, of course, a closeup of the Hulkster's nose hair.
Basically, everything that I didn't want to happen on this night, happened. They carted out a bunch of old stars, focused far too much on Hogan and Bischoff, and gave us little reason to care about the incumbent stars. I imagine that with the news of Hogan coming in, a lot of new fans were tuning in last night, which begs for some type of character development for wrestlers that these new fans may have never seen. We got none of that. Instead we get Old Folks on Parade.
I'm still going to watch to see how this plays out, but if Hogan and his buddies are still dominating the show six months later, I'm out.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jan 5, 2010 9:20:59 GMT -5
You know, I don't think you can call spending almost all of the TV time saying that you gotta show what worth you have, how some of the young guys are the top talent today, and pretty much putting the company in a good light is "hogging up all the spotlight for himself".
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jan 5, 2010 10:20:02 GMT -5
I thought Impact was awesome last night.
Also... Jeff Hardy's a relic? Yowza.
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Post by Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan on Jan 5, 2010 10:38:37 GMT -5
Impact was far from perfect but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 5, 2010 10:49:00 GMT -5
Impact was like "'A tale of two cities". It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Jan 5, 2010 10:50:30 GMT -5
I thought it was great. It really feels like a game-changer. I think just in terms of being entertained, TNA kicked WWEs ass. But now unfortunately, I'm sure the rating won't be anything extraordinary, but I still think TNA took a leap forward, should use the momentum and keep striding forward. Definitely. In any arena, competition is good for business. I was actually excited for current era wrestling on a Monday night. How crazy is that?!! usually I just watch ROH or old WWF tapes/ DVD footage.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2010 10:55:20 GMT -5
I thought it was awesome Didn't even bother to watch RAW
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jan 5, 2010 10:55:24 GMT -5
Btw, I've noticed something (esp in the past month or so) I love how you and so many internet fans throw around the word "old" in regards to TNA. Ummm...how about you take a look at the menial age of the WWE roster? Take a look at Taker, HBK, HHH, f'n Finlay, Kane, etc. And it goes on and on. Miz, Shaemus, Kofi, Orton, Carlito, MVP, Evan Bourne, Jack Swagger featured prominently on Raw this week. Taker, Finlay and Kane didn't. Hall, Bischoff, Waltman, Hogan, Foley and the Nasty boys dominated the show. 1 match for each isn't being featured prominently.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jan 5, 2010 10:59:20 GMT -5
I know people are upset with all of the commercials, but they gotta pay the bills somehow! Also, you know they just wanted to squeeze action into the final quarters of the hour to to keep people from going to RAW.
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