Do you think this is TNAs last chance to get big?

[kerda]

Simple answer: No

Longer, more involved answer: TNA is never going to "make it" in the way that most people would construe "making it" (i.e. reigniting the Monday Night Wars, getting 5.0 ratings, etc.). And honestly, I don't know that ANY wrestling promotion in this day and age, including WWE, is going to reach those heights again.

When wrestling was last huge, a good decade ago, our cultural landscape was dramatically different than it is now. Wrestling got big because it was doing things on TV that were not only fresh and controversial for the industry, but pushing the very limits of ALL TV content. It was insane violence, blood, sexy girls in barely there outfits, loud music, brash, foul-mouthed, colorful personalities that were the embodiment of "larger than life".

In 2009, I just don't know if pro-wrestling, as an entertainment genre, offers up anything unique enough to justify ever being the world-conquering pantheon of monoculture that it once was. UFC offers the same sort of one-on-one, anything goes, personality-driven brutality that wrestling was built on, but with REAL fights and REAL outcomes. The Kat losing her top for 2 seconds is positively quaint compared to the soul-deadening filth that I could conjure with but a few mouse clicks. Classic ECW, or even it's gorier modern offspring like CZW or IWA Mid-South, looks flat-out Disney compared to the immaculately-rendered pseudo-snuff of Saw or Hostel. Ordering a PPV is drastically less essential when the full torrent will be up before night's end, and catching Raw is of less concern when you can watch it on Youtube or DailyMotion the next day.

Pro-wrestling is the comics industry: huge in the 90s, but relegated to eternal niche status in the new millennium. There will never be another "Spawn" or "Witchblade" in the same way there will never be another Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. It doesn't mean that we faithful fans won't still enjoy it, but we're deluding ourselves if we think that the glory days are ever coming back.

[Deleted]

They don't need to Hogan and his friends to be big. Hogan was great back in the day, but they need to build stars not bring in older guys who can't do what they did ten years ago. Also advertise would be a great idea. I'm sorry, but you're little fliers being put up by your Nation doesn't cut it. You need radio and tv exposure in the markets that you're putting on a show. And for goodness sakes leave The Impact Zone.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I don't think this is the be all, end all; but at the same time I don't see this making a major 'renewed Monday Night War' splash.. which I feel has less to do with them and more to do with the state of the wrestling industry/fanbase right now.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Dec 29, 2009 20:35:14 GMT -5 kerda said:

Simple answer: No

Longer, more involved answer: TNA is never going to "make it" in the way that most people would construe "making it" (i.e. reigniting the Monday Night Wars, getting 5.0 ratings, etc.). And honestly, I don't know that ANY wrestling promotion in this day and age, including WWE, is going to reach those heights again.

When wrestling was last huge, a good decade ago, our cultural landscape was dramatically different than it is now. Wrestling got big because it was doing things on TV that were not only fresh and controversial for the industry, but pushing the very limits of ALL TV content. It was insane violence, blood, sexy girls in barely there outfits, loud music, brash, foul-mouthed, colorful personalities that were the embodiment of "larger than life".

In 2009, I just don't know if pro-wrestling, as an entertainment genre, offers up anything unique enough to justify ever being the world-conquering pantheon of monoculture that it once was. UFC offers the same sort of one-on-one, anything goes, personality-driven brutality that wrestling was built on, but with REAL fights and REAL outcomes. The Kat losing her top for 2 seconds is positively quaint compared to the soul-deadening filth that I could conjure with but a few mouse clicks. Classic ECW, or even it's gorier modern offspring like CZW or IWA Mid-South, looks flat-out Disney compared to the immaculately-rendered pseudo-snuff of Saw or Hostel. Ordering a PPV is drastically less essential when the full torrent will be up before night's end, and catching Raw is of less concern when you can watch it on Youtube or DailyMotion the next day.

Pro-wrestling is the comics industry: huge in the 90s, but relegated to eternal niche status in the new millennium. There will never be another "Spawn" or "Witchblade" in the same way there will never be another Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. It doesn't mean that we faithful fans won't still enjoy it, but we're deluding ourselves if we think that the glory days are ever coming back.

More detailed than I put it, but completely concur.

[HMARK Center]

Agreed, that's a nice, concise-and-precise take on it.

Somebody else also brought up promotion, and that's something else TNA really needs to work on. They don't advertise enough, we know that for certain, but TNA also works far too often in such a way that, even in the few weeks leading up to a big show, the audience doesn't know enough about what will be on the card, about who's going to be featured/main eventing, etc.

I agree, if TNA knew this 1/4 show was coming for awhile, then the hype job for it should've gone hand-in-hand with hyping Final Resolutions. As of this moment, literally ALL we know about 1/4 is that Hogan will debut, and there'll be a Knockout title match. That's not enough information.

Keeping an "anything can happen" edge to things isn't bad, but it should spring out of a show that comes off as structured BEFORE the chaos hits.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Dec 29, 2009 21:11:55 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Agreed, that's a nice, concise-and-precise take on it.

Somebody else also brought up promotion, and that's something else TNA really needs to work on. They don't advertise enough, we know that for certain, but TNA also works far too often in such a way that, even in the few weeks leading up to a big show, the audience doesn't know enough about what will be on the card, about who's going to be featured/main eventing, etc.

I agree, if TNA knew this 1/4 show was coming for awhile, then the hype job for it should've gone hand-in-hand with hyping Final Resolutions. As of this moment, literally ALL we know about 1/4 is that Hogan will debut, and there'll be a Knockout title match. That's not enough information.

Keeping an "anything can happen" edge to things isn't bad, but it should spring out of a show that comes off as structured BEFORE the chaos hits.

I'll agree with this too, plus, and someone who watches Spike more regularly than I do can give some insight on this- have there been that many ads at all for the 1/4 show? One would think they'd blanket the channel at least on a weekly basis, if nothing else during the times that UFC is on to try and get some new eyes there.

As I said, I don't watch Spike all that much, so they in fact be actually doing quality promo work for that show, but if history is any indication the lack of ads is pretty dire.

[Lancers]

Dec 29, 2009 16:48:32 GMT -5 Cry Me a Wiggle said:

Dec 29, 2009 15:37:04 GMT -5 BitterAF said:

Get big you say?

I was skeptical until I realized there was all that science behind it.

I was probably more skeptical, but once I heard Dr. Daniel Stein of the Stein Institute did significant research and concluded it will increase that certain part of the company's profitability, I said where do I sign up?

[toodarkmark]

Dec 29, 2009 20:35:14 GMT -5 kerda said:

Simple answer: No

Longer, more involved answer: TNA is never going to "make it" in the way that most people would construe "making it" (i.e. reigniting the Monday Night Wars, getting 5.0 ratings, etc.). And honestly, I don't know that ANY wrestling promotion in this day and age, including WWE, is going to reach those heights again.

When wrestling was last huge, a good decade ago, our cultural landscape was dramatically different than it is now. Wrestling got big because it was doing things on TV that were not only fresh and controversial for the industry, but pushing the very limits of ALL TV content. It was insane violence, blood, sexy girls in barely there outfits, loud music, brash, foul-mouthed, colorful personalities that were the embodiment of "larger than life".

In 2009, I just don't know if pro-wrestling, as an entertainment genre, offers up anything unique enough to justify ever being the world-conquering pantheon of monoculture that it once was. UFC offers the same sort of one-on-one, anything goes, personality-driven brutality that wrestling was built on, but with REAL fights and REAL outcomes. The Kat losing her top for 2 seconds is positively quaint compared to the soul-deadening filth that I could conjure with but a few mouse clicks. Classic ECW, or even it's gorier modern offspring like CZW or IWA Mid-South, looks flat-out Disney compared to the immaculately-rendered pseudo-snuff of Saw or Hostel. Ordering a PPV is drastically less essential when the full torrent will be up before night's end, and catching Raw is of less concern when you can watch it on Youtube or DailyMotion the next day.

Pro-wrestling is the comics industry: huge in the 90s, but relegated to eternal niche status in the new millennium. There will never be another "Spawn" or "Witchblade" in the same way there will never be another Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. It doesn't mean that we faithful fans won't still enjoy it, but we're deluding ourselves if we think that the glory days are ever coming back.

Very eloquent, but I will disagree.

Entertainment, and niche markets like pro wrestling and comics are very cyclical. Comic books had boom eras in the 40s (Superheros), 60's (Marvel), and 80's(Watchmen, Dark Knight) going into the early 90's. Why? Because there was a creativity, there was a paradigm shift, and it captured people's attentions.

Same can be said for pro wrestling. Huge in the 50's, huge again in the 80's, and huge again in the 90's. Why did this happen? Because there were new concepts rock n wrestling, hardcore), new ideas (nWo), new stars (Stone Cold, Rock) that elevated professional wrestling to new heights.

Right now professional wrestling is dead. And Hogan will NOT be the man to elevate it. Why? Because he is over the hill. He THINKS he will just copy McMahon, or old school UWF, or UFC and suddenly something great will happen. But that's not when greatness occurs, it's when a new idea arises that captures people attentions and their imaginations.

This will not be the time TNA gets "big", because in the end, and as much as I enjoy TNA, they don't offer anything "new". When they find something "new" and "different" to offer that really separates them from WWE, UFC, or old school USWA, then they will have the capability to get big.

[Sam Punk]

No. At least I hope not. Hogan's not much of a draw at this point. If it was the rock it would be one thing but hogan's multiple returns in wwe over the years killed his drawing power.

[Big L]

Yes this is their last chance

[glory]

Dec 30, 2009 15:42:19 GMT -5 Sam Punk said:

No. At least I hope not. Hogan's not much of a draw at this point. If it was the rock it would be one thing but hogan's multiple returns in wwe over the years killed his drawing power.

The last two times Hogan made returns to the WWE (2005 and 2006) he helped increase buyrates for each show he appeared on. The ratings were more or less the same. So no, Hogan did not kill his drawing power. If anything, he proved its legitimacy, as a 50-year old with knee/back/hip problems could outdraw every star the WWE had at the time.

He is not as big of a draw now as it is 2010 and the fanbase has completely turned over, but he should still add some interest. BUt no, this will not be WCW 1994. If Hogan was 15 years younger and good enough to wrestle full-time, then maybe, but not now. Hogan will bring some fans in, it will be up to TNA's existing talent to run with it.

[AriadosMan]

As long as they are on Spike, they will have a chance.
Its up to them to do something with it.

[Deleted]

I don't think they'll be hurt if things don't get a big boost on Jan 4th, it'll be business as usual.

They have an opportunity to get a small, sustained ratings boost though if they can do some good stuff in the next few weeks.

Surely they'll get some extra people at least checking in on jan 4th to see what's up. In reality they'll probably get like a 1.3 or something (which is plenty for them, that's fine).

If the show those extra people tune into is a good one, some will come back next week. It's TNA's job to make sure the next month of programming is stellar so they can retain some of the "new fans", even if those new fans are just people that usually watch WWE...or people that watch Impact occasionally but not much.

[Deleted]

Nope and, in fact, I think this is the first chance they have, the first real chance, to "get big".

[Hanzo]

You know what they say, the best form of advertising is word-of-mouth.

[Celgress]

Jan 1, 2010 1:54:38 GMT -5 @irontyger said:

Nope and, in fact, I think this is the first chance they have, the first real chance, to "get big".

Exactly

[HMARK Center]

Dec 30, 2009 15:14:48 GMT -5 toodarkmark said:

Dec 29, 2009 20:35:14 GMT -5 kerda said:

Simple answer: No

Longer, more involved answer: TNA is never going to "make it" in the way that most people would construe "making it" (i.e. reigniting the Monday Night Wars, getting 5.0 ratings, etc.). And honestly, I don't know that ANY wrestling promotion in this day and age, including WWE, is going to reach those heights again.

When wrestling was last huge, a good decade ago, our cultural landscape was dramatically different than it is now. Wrestling got big because it was doing things on TV that were not only fresh and controversial for the industry, but pushing the very limits of ALL TV content. It was insane violence, blood, sexy girls in barely there outfits, loud music, brash, foul-mouthed, colorful personalities that were the embodiment of "larger than life".

In 2009, I just don't know if pro-wrestling, as an entertainment genre, offers up anything unique enough to justify ever being the world-conquering pantheon of monoculture that it once was. UFC offers the same sort of one-on-one, anything goes, personality-driven brutality that wrestling was built on, but with REAL fights and REAL outcomes. The Kat losing her top for 2 seconds is positively quaint compared to the soul-deadening filth that I could conjure with but a few mouse clicks. Classic ECW, or even it's gorier modern offspring like CZW or IWA Mid-South, looks flat-out Disney compared to the immaculately-rendered pseudo-snuff of Saw or Hostel. Ordering a PPV is drastically less essential when the full torrent will be up before night's end, and catching Raw is of less concern when you can watch it on Youtube or DailyMotion the next day.

Pro-wrestling is the comics industry: huge in the 90s, but relegated to eternal niche status in the new millennium. There will never be another "Spawn" or "Witchblade" in the same way there will never be another Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. It doesn't mean that we faithful fans won't still enjoy it, but we're deluding ourselves if we think that the glory days are ever coming back.

Very eloquent, but I will disagree.

Entertainment, and niche markets like pro wrestling and comics are very cyclical. Comic books had boom eras in the 40s (Superheros), 60's (Marvel), and 80's(Watchmen, Dark Knight) going into the early 90's. Why? Because there was a creativity, there was a paradigm shift, and it captured people's attentions.

Same can be said for pro wrestling. Huge in the 50's, huge again in the 80's, and huge again in the 90's. Why did this happen? Because there were new concepts rock n wrestling, hardcore), new ideas (nWo), new stars (Stone Cold, Rock) that elevated professional wrestling to new heights.

Right now professional wrestling is dead. And Hogan will NOT be the man to elevate it. Why? Because he is over the hill. He THINKS he will just copy McMahon, or old school UWF, or UFC and suddenly something great will happen. But that's not when greatness occurs, it's when a new idea arises that captures people attentions and their imaginations.

This will not be the time TNA gets "big", because in the end, and as much as I enjoy TNA, they don't offer anything "new". When they find something "new" and "different" to offer that really separates them from WWE, UFC, or old school USWA, then they will have the capability to get big.

I don't like the use of the word "cyclical", as it implies that things will get better/worse regardless of the actions taken by anybody involved in whatever industry we're discussing, but you did touch on something I completely agree with and have posted about before.

In looking at and analyzing the "boom" periods of wrestling, it's not a coincidence that most of them occurred hand-in-hand with the advent of new forms of media, or that they happened when a major creative change in direction occurred.

The 1950's brought with it a television in nearly every home, and wrestling, being cheap to produce, fit the bill for the early TV age perfectly. It's popularity was only compounded by the emergence of the "over the top" wrestling character, as Gorgeous George and a few others helped to redefine what a wrestling character was.

The 1980's saw the spread of cable TV and closed circuit and other types of pay TV, which, to Vince McMahon's eternal credit, the WWF took advantage of first and on a grander scale than anybody else. The territory days were effectively ended, and the creative direction reflected the new age of children's entertainment, with more larger than life characters (not in small part thanks to steroids) and marketing taken to the next level.

The 1990's was the beginning of the Internet, and the late 90's was when the 'Net truly arrived in most households around the country. Rumors that the nWo was actually the WWF "invading" WCW could spread more easily from more sources. To compound things, the creative direction of the 90's said to all the old 80's fans "Hey, you're all teens/young adults now, we'll ditch the cartoons and get into extreme violence/sex/etc."

The question now is where to take things next. Creatively, that's very hard to say; you can't try to get more extreme with sex or violence, since it's all been done, and more ridiculous things can always be found on the Internet, for free. You also can't retreat to the cartoon days of the 1980's, since Vince himself pulled the trigger to put the final bullet into kayfabe.

However, it's highly probable that the next few years will an explosion in new types of media that could be taken advantage of, and it'll be up to the companies to learn how best to utilize them.

And when it comes to creativity, I say it's time to go back to basics. Creative storylines and over the top characters are great, but you're not going to compete with the Internet when it comes to sex appeal or over the top violence, so go back to what works, focusing on getting your actual in-ring product over, with characters that better suit a day and age where MMA is more popular.

[Timmy8271]

Jan 1, 2010 19:36:26 GMT -5 Celgress said:

Jan 1, 2010 1:54:38 GMT -5 @irontyger said:

Nope and, in fact, I think this is the first chance they have, the first real chance, to "get big".

Exactly

I thought the first "real chance" was getting on a major cable network and the second chance was moving to a reasonable time slot?

I don't think it's TNA's last chance but they need to bring it big if they want to look like a major league contender. If all they are going to do is bash WWE and kiss Hogan's ass, it's not going to work. Moving to Monday nights permanently is the last chance.

[toodarkmark]

Jan 1, 2010 20:54:45 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

I don't like the use of the word "cyclical", as it implies that things will get better/worse regardless of the actions taken by anybody involved in whatever industry we're discussing, but you did touch on something I completely agree with and have posted about before.

In looking at and analyzing the "boom" periods of wrestling, it's not a coincidence that most of them occurred hand-in-hand with the advent of new forms of media, or that they happened when a major creative change in direction occurred.

The 1950's brought with it a television in nearly every home, and wrestling, being cheap to produce, fit the bill for the early TV age perfectly. It's popularity was only compounded by the emergence of the "over the top" wrestling character, as Gorgeous George and a few others helped to redefine what a wrestling character was.

The 1980's saw the spread of cable TV and closed circuit and other types of pay TV, which, to Vince McMahon's eternal credit, the WWF took advantage of first and on a grander scale than anybody else. The territory days were effectively ended, and the creative direction reflected the new age of children's entertainment, with more larger than life characters (not in small part thanks to steroids) and marketing taken to the next level.

The 1990's was the beginning of the Internet, and the late 90's was when the 'Net truly arrived in most households around the country. Rumors that the nWo was actually the WWF "invading" WCW could spread more easily from more sources. To compound things, the creative direction of the 90's said to all the old 80's fans "Hey, you're all teens/young adults now, we'll ditch the cartoons and get into extreme violence/sex/etc."

The question now is where to take things next. Creatively, that's very hard to say; you can't try to get more extreme with sex or violence, since it's all been done, and more ridiculous things can always be found on the Internet, for free. You also can't retreat to the cartoon days of the 1980's, since Vince himself pulled the trigger to put the final bullet into kayfabe.

However, it's highly probable that the next few years will an explosion in new types of media that could be taken advantage of, and it'll be up to the companies to learn how best to utilize them.

And when it comes to creativity, I say it's time to go back to basics. Creative storylines and over the top characters are great, but you're not going to compete with the Internet when it comes to sex appeal or over the top violence, so go back to what works, focusing on getting your actual in-ring product over, with characters that better suit a day and age where MMA is more popular.

I completely agree. It's funny because this goes beyond just wrestling, and into social evolution in general. But what is the next step in media? Maybe TNA should start investing in holograms or virtual reality. You be the heel and wrestle your favorite wrestlers.

It's funny because I think a lot of pro wrestling fans (not myself) are huge gamers, and I feel that there is some unknown way to tap that fanbase psychologically, moreso then just selling them games. Well, that's up to culture to figure out and not me.