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Post by rnrk supports BLM on May 22, 2010 17:23:41 GMT -5
as charismatic or likable as Swagger. ...is there anyone in the world who would apply the words "charismatic" and "likable" to Jack Swagger who is not either 1. Jake Hager's mother, or 2. already in love with his workrate? Kofi is not a basic mid card wrestler. THis is the guy who pinned two former world champs in about ten seconds less six months ago. Sorry, but he is a mid card talent. 15-20 years ago and he would be lower mid card talent. I'm inclined to agree... but I'd still say Kofi has consistently come across as a more significant talent than Jack Swagger over the last year, and the fact that Swagger is carrying around an extra prop now (which he isn't even supposed to have earned) isn't going to magically make him a better wrestler in kayfabe. I wouldn't have been particularly surprised or offended of Kofi went over Swagger clean, to be honest. |
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Post by tarheelfan on May 22, 2010 17:31:21 GMT -5
I am not saying he is a bad wrestler but he is really two dimensional moves wise in my book. Sure he can do kicks and leap over people but those in itself are not the complete package to be a main eventer especially with his size also. The crowd is basically split on him and while his character in itself may be somewhat charismatic he tremendously lacks mic skills. Basically a mid card wrestler and again 15-20 years ago a lower mid card wrestler.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on May 22, 2010 17:44:41 GMT -5
Kofi is not a basic mid card wrestler. THis is the guy who pinned two former world champs in about ten seconds less six months ago. Sorry, but he is a mid card talent. 15-20 years ago and he would be lower mid card talent. He is a glorified spot artist who would have stood no shot against the likes of Austin, the Rock, Brett Hart or event the Sid Justices or Hogans of the WWE. I am not trying to sound markish but it is an indictment at how subpar the main event picture is today. spot artists spend more time on or going over the top rope than Kofi does. He's just a high impact type guys. I also haven't noticed any split in the crowd on him. |
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Post by tarheelfan on May 22, 2010 17:48:04 GMT -5
Sorry, but he is a mid card talent. 15-20 years ago and he would be lower mid card talent. He is a glorified spot artist who would have stood no shot against the likes of Austin, the Rock, Brett Hart or event the Sid Justices or Hogans of the WWE. I am not trying to sound markish but it is an indictment at how subpar the main event picture is today. spot artists spend more time on or going over the top rope than Kofi does. He's just a high impact type guys. Yes, he is a high impact wrestler but he lacks the fundamental vertical base to horizontal base skills that most main eventers have some semblance of. His matches can be exciting when paired against wrestlers his size but IMHO his style is not credible in a dominant way to be consistently successful against true heavyweights. He may not be a 360 jumper like Mysterio or some others but he is still mainly a spot wrestler with kicks and his strongest suit is jumping over people. That would not get it done against superior wrestlers. To use an example he isn't even a 1/2 of good a wrestler as a Brian Pillman was who could also do spots but was more physical though. |
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Post by Indifference Abounds on May 22, 2010 18:00:42 GMT -5
I can't help but feel this is WWE's response to Randy Orton's popularity:
"We have one over guy who doesn't do a whole lot more than knock out heels and mess up their promos, let's see it works on Big Show".
Last week's Smackdown really reminded me of Eddie Guerrero and Kurt Angle's "Great American Award". In that instance JBL didn't actually deserve the award, or the title shot, and Eddie's actions were a face's rebellion against a major heel and a heel GM who were stacking the deck against him.
What Big Show did was methodically break the, in kayfabe, legitimately earned trophies of a guy who I read as simply being far too proud of his achievements. Swagger is an ass, yes, but it just didn't feel like he deserved that at all.
The main difference between Orton and Show's characters is that Orton's persona has been built up over a long period of time, and sees him facing a strong heel in Edge, while Big Show has had a rapid turn and is essentially bullying Swagger. It's possible to read Show as the heel here simply because Swagger has yet to appear as even a vague threat to the guy and Show is getting all the victories. Swagger is the one who has to overcome the odds and beat the bully.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 22, 2010 18:52:59 GMT -5
spot artists spend more time on or going over the top rope than Kofi does. He's just a high impact type guys. Yes, he is a high impact wrestler but he lacks the fundamental vertical base to horizontal base skills that most main eventers have some semblance of. His matches can be exciting when paired against wrestlers his size but IMHO his style is not credible in a dominant way to be consistently successful against true heavyweights. He may not be a 360 jumper like Mysterio or some others but he is still mainly a spot wrestler with kicks and his strongest suit is jumping over people. That would not get it done against superior wrestlers. To use an example he isn't even a 1/2 of good a wrestler as a Brian Pillman was who could also do spots but was more physical though. I find him more believable against larger heavyweights than Pillman, especially montser type guys, but then my main criteria against those guys is you have three or four finisher type moves or an instant KO to hit. So Kofi with the way Trouble in Paradise is usually shown ranks higher on my list than Jack Swagger actually does. |
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Post by cobrafan on May 22, 2010 18:55:07 GMT -5
Yeah. Austin did get around in his hey day. From dumping cement into Mr. McMahon's white Corvette to running over corporate Rock's Lincoln with a monster truck to destroying the DX Express by dropping that beam on it. Good times ;D Stone Cold destroying the Corvette was my favorite. Austin did things like this didn't? Except he just came in and attacked or humilated the person. You don't remember Property Damage Steve Austin? He'd always find a way to destroy someone's car during their fued. |
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Post by tarheelfan on May 22, 2010 18:56:39 GMT -5
Yes, he is a high impact wrestler but he lacks the fundamental vertical base to horizontal base skills that most main eventers have some semblance of. His matches can be exciting when paired against wrestlers his size but IMHO his style is not credible in a dominant way to be consistently successful against true heavyweights. He may not be a 360 jumper like Mysterio or some others but he is still mainly a spot wrestler with kicks and his strongest suit is jumping over people. That would not get it done against superior wrestlers. To use an example he isn't even a 1/2 of good a wrestler as a Brian Pillman was who could also do spots but was more physical though. I find him more believable against larger heavyweights than Pillman, especially montser type guys, but then my main criteria against those guys is you have three or four finisher type moves or an instant KO to hit. So Kofi with the way Trouble in Paradise is usually shown ranks higher on my list than Jack Swagger actually does. The thing is though that Pillman was a superior overall wrestler than Kofi. Kofi is not in Pillmans league. Pillman was probably stronger than Kofi also. Pillman was a star of sorts in a time where main eventers were truly more elite then mid card wrestlers. In theory, a middle card wrestler should not even hardly get to the point where they would be able to use their finisher to start with against a main eventer let alone the world heavyweight champion and if it does happen would be rare and not the norm. But that actually goes back to one of the symptoms of what is wrong with wrestling today in that the heavyweight champion is no longer projected as being technically the best wrestler. 20 years ago and Kofi would not have lasted long against Swagger even if the excuse was that it furthured a storyline. |
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Post by casualobserver on May 22, 2010 18:59:25 GMT -5
Last week Swagger came out with a bunch of trophies, bragged about accomplishments that were dubious at best, rubbed the audience's faces in it, insulted their children, and called Big Show's fingers fat. He deserved to get his little phony baloney awards trashed. And Swagger is supposed to look weak, considering the guy is an undeserving champion, who only won the title because he cashed in MITB on a opponent who had been beaten up just moments earlier. Pretty much, THIS. C'mon people? You're actually gonna buy that Swagger was a former Scrabble and ballroom dancing champion who took a 32 year old doctor to his senior prom? I'll give you another hint: there isn't a lot to see in Perry, OK, let alone have a "world famous" deli featuring the Swaggie. |
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on May 22, 2010 19:28:38 GMT -5
I find him more believable against larger heavyweights than Pillman, especially montser type guys, but then my main criteria against those guys is you have three or four finisher type moves or an instant KO to hit. So Kofi with the way Trouble in Paradise is usually shown ranks higher on my list than Jack Swagger actually does. The thing is though that Pillman was a superior overall wrestler than Kofi. Kofi is not in Pillmans league. Pillman was probably stronger than Kofi also. Pillman was a star of sorts in a time where main eventers were truly more elite then mid card wrestlers. In theory, a middle card wrestler should not even hardly get to the point where they would be able to use their finisher to start with against a main eventer let alone the world heavyweight champion and if it does happen would be rare and not the norm. But that actually goes back to one of the symptoms of what is wrong with wrestling today in that the heavyweight champion is no longer projected as being technically the best wrestler. 20 years ago and Kofi would not have lasted long against Swagger even if the excuse was that it furthured a storyline. no, 20 years ago Swagger wouldn't have been near the belt. Around 19 or 20 years ago when Hogan was champ he spent months wrestling the Warlord at house shows. Warlord never won anything, he was basically a JTTS. But you know Hogan was beaten down to the point he hulked up. |
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 22, 2010 19:47:42 GMT -5
The thing is though that Pillman was a superior overall wrestler than Kofi. Kofi is not in Pillmans league. Pillman was probably stronger than Kofi also. Pillman was a star of sorts in a time where main eventers were truly more elite then mid card wrestlers. In theory, a middle card wrestler should not even hardly get to the point where they would be able to use their finisher to start with against a main eventer let alone the world heavyweight champion and if it does happen would be rare and not the norm. But that actually goes back to one of the symptoms of what is wrong with wrestling today in that the heavyweight champion is no longer projected as being technically the best wrestler. 20 years ago and Kofi would not have lasted long against Swagger even if the excuse was that it furthured a storyline. no, 20 years ago Swagger wouldn't have been near the belt. Around 19 or 20 years ago when Hogan was champ he spent months wrestling the Warlord at house shows. Warlord never won anything, he was basically a JTTS. But you know Hogan was beaten down to the point he hulked up. 20 years ago Swagger would be 8! |
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Post by tarheelfan on May 22, 2010 20:14:22 GMT -5
The thing is though that Pillman was a superior overall wrestler than Kofi. Kofi is not in Pillmans league. Pillman was probably stronger than Kofi also. Pillman was a star of sorts in a time where main eventers were truly more elite then mid card wrestlers. In theory, a middle card wrestler should not even hardly get to the point where they would be able to use their finisher to start with against a main eventer let alone the world heavyweight champion and if it does happen would be rare and not the norm. But that actually goes back to one of the symptoms of what is wrong with wrestling today in that the heavyweight champion is no longer projected as being technically the best wrestler. 20 years ago and Kofi would not have lasted long against Swagger even if the excuse was that it furthured a storyline. no, 20 years ago Swagger wouldn't have been near the belt. Around 19 or 20 years ago when Hogan was champ he spent months wrestling the Warlord at house shows. Warlord never won anything, he was basically a JTTS. But you know Hogan was beaten down to the point he hulked up. Back then the Warlord could be construed as a credible main event threat although he was more or less upper mid card in all technicality. That was also a time where the mid card was so solid that you basically could distinguish between upper mid card and regular mid card and lower mid card wrestlers who were just a step above jobber status. The Warlord in his prime was probably bigger than Batista muscle size wise. It was more credible that the Warlord give Hogan a run for his money then Kofi vs the world heavyweight champion. One thing I notice about wrestling now overall is that there is a lack of realism in the matchups anymore. It is true that wrestling is a staged sport but years ago there was effort put into it to at least make the matches look somewhat realistic on what would probably happen if it was an actual non staged match. I suppose that is why you did not see Mysterio sized wrestlers or even 210-220 pounders against 250-275 pounders back then be as successful in the matchups. |
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Post by crazydom on May 22, 2010 20:42:45 GMT -5
So, basically he's doing what face Batista did for years?
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Post by Arturo Classico on May 22, 2010 21:29:54 GMT -5
Honestly I hate to say this as I can't stand Jack Swagger. But I want him to win because this whole storyline is that Swagger is proud of his accomplishments and Big Show destroys his awards and bully him because? Well he can. Really this is the best WWE could come up with?
See this is why I said McIntyre should have been the MITB winner because he pulls the undeserveing champion alot better and really apart from stating Swagger's accomplishments he's really nothing and at least with Drew he has some charisma and could pull off a feud much better than Jack Swagger.
Jack needed to pick quality wins on people and look better like he is a legit wrestler instead he's pretty much jobbed out to everybody and get a lucky win over Orton at Extreme Rules. Basically they've booked him like when Rey was champion except as a heel and it's just as bad. But after this horrid storyline I do not want to see Big Show as champ it would bury Swagger. Great main event Smackdown!
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2010 8:13:45 GMT -5
Kofi lacks mic skills? Kofi's awesome on the mic, he's just rarely given the chance to demonstrate it.
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