Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 9:50:49 GMT -5
SST nailed it on the head, and to further illustrate it, I have some local news to pass on...
Super Bowl XX MVP Richard Dent was quoted recently in the Chicago Tribune about how the Blackhawks Stanley Cup win would be measured up against other Chicago championship teams, namely the '85 Bears. To paraphrase, he pretty much said, "They didn't have the swagger we did. Everyone knew we were going to go out, kick-ass and take names every week. The 'Hawks, they didn't have that swagger."
Now, how does this mirror the whole ECW argument? The Bears, yeah they were good and this is still considered "Bears country" where I live, even since the Colts got good. But the Bears peaked at a time when Chicago sports was reeling. Chicago hasn't won a World Championship in any of the four major sports in 22 years. The White Sox in '83, the Cubs in '84; both won division titles but didn't capture the magic of winning a championship like the Bears. People were just so happy that the city could produce a winner, and when they look back on it, it gives them such a "fuzzy, warm, nostalgic feeling", as Mick Foley says, that everyone knew this title was inevitable.
Compare ECW as the Bears. (Don't compare audiences; that's just unfair.) They had a period when it just seemed in newsletters and word of mouth that ECW was the company to watch, and they were "blowing everyone else out of the water". But, when you look back on it, it was boring watching the Bears win 44-0 every week. Just like watching guys break out a chair every third match when they really don't need to, or having to add another table because putting a guy through one or two wasn't hardcore enough.
Sorry if it doesn't make sense to you, but it does to me.
|
|
Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
|
Post by Celgress on Jun 17, 2010 10:01:39 GMT -5
I still love it to this day. If it wasn't for ECW there may not have been a cruiserweight division in WCW which means some of the awesome guys from that division may not have become what they did. There may not have been a hardcore title in the WWE Raven may have continued being Johnny Polo and other ridiculous gimmicks a guy like Taz likely wuoldn't have made it big. No Sabu most likely. Maybe no RVD. Justin Credible may have never existed. WCW may have had Steve Austin but it was Paul Heyman who first let him be himself. All that being said I also liked WCW and WWE although now when I watch WCW I think for the most part it is crap. This
|
|
|
Post by CMPunkyBrewster on Jun 17, 2010 10:55:30 GMT -5
I honestly don't think any wrestling looks good in retrospect. I always view things in a "had to be there" kinda way. Every generation of fan should have a respect for the wrestling that came before there time, but I think they will also always view their era as being the best.
For example, I will always think that the Attitude era was the greatest time ever in pro wrestling. When WWF, WCW, and ECW were all hitting their peak in the late 90's, it was just a magical time for me. I couldn't wait to watch those shows every week, and talk about it with my friends. Looking back on it 12 or so years later though (which I do often, as I have a large collection of tapes from that era), it just doesn't have the same aura as it did then, and it never will no matter how many of those tapes I watch. You just had to be there. If you weren't, then the magic is lost.
|
|
|
Post by American Dragon on Jun 17, 2010 12:05:26 GMT -5
Without ECW, there would have never been a Stone Cold Steve Austin. Think about that.
|
|
|
Post by nerdinitupagain on Jun 17, 2010 12:17:28 GMT -5
It's like early punk music... it wasn't glitzy, it wasn't all that great, but there was something about that attracted a portion of the world to it that wasn't just about music. ECW wasn't just about wrestling... there was an intangible variable about ECW that unless you followed it or experienced it while it was happening, you'll never be able to truly grasp what it really meant.
|
|
|
Post by corndog on Jun 17, 2010 13:27:33 GMT -5
I still think 90s ECW is entertaining today, also I find it funny with all of the Japanese wrestling marks here hating ECW. In the early 80s wrestlers like Fujinami, Tiger Mask and the Dynamite Kid revolutionized wrestling, but when Dynamite wrestled here he was pretty limiited although still put on amazing matches, alot of ECW's wrestlers worked similar high impact matches with great reversals, amazing moves, and took risks not seen in the other big two companies. ECW took the restraints off of their wrestlers that limited them in other promotions. They let Austin be himself, they let guys like Jerry Lynn show their true capability in the ring, they pushed wrestlers like Jericho, Benoit and Malenko who probably would have had to compete in Japan and Mexico to make it because at that time their style would not have been appreciated and pushed in the United States. Yes WWF had Micheals and Bret Hart among other great wrestlers, but their style was much like today, and behind the times.
I can understand the creation of the smarky fans and bringing it to the mainstream. But in all honesty would the IWC not have eventually created a large group of them anyways? Also there was some bad garbage wrestling, but don't act like Mid South didn't have some, and Abdullah the Butcher was doing the same thing in the 70s and 80s.
|
|
|
Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Jun 17, 2010 15:57:12 GMT -5
So I've read a few people on these boards badmouthing ECW as of late. I've read Mark Madden badmouth ECW. Lots of people have over the years. Saying this and that about it. When I think of the ECW, the REAL ECW from 1993-2001, I think of the best ALL AROUND wrestling product that North America has ever seen. Sure WWE and WCW went through periods of great shows...but they always cooled off and presented some pretty bad ones too. ECW on the otherhand was always cutting edge. It didn't have glitz and glamour because WRESTLING DOESN'T NEED IT!!! You don't need pyro or crazy lights or shiny costumes...you just need talent. And no matter if it was garbage wrestling, technical wrestling, lucha libra or just all out brawls, ECW ALWAYS gave you a show to remember. I don't like hearing people badmouth ECW because "they weren't successful this, or ratings that"...bulls***. The fact is that TNN kept trying to make them into a WWE type show. PPV providers refused to pay out owed dividens from ppvs. Money that was supposed to make it in the budget never came. From what I understand Paul Heyman threatened to sue ondemand ppv provider for failure to pay out and they said fine, but you can't run anymore ppvs and the trial will last for years. So success is a fickle thing. BTW, WCW made money hand over fist in 1996-1998...and they went out just as quick. ECW was an independent promotion that had a cult following because they were the true alternative, much like ROH is today. And just because there was a lot of garbage wrestling, don't forget that there was a lot of amazing technical wrestling and lucha stuff that was on display in front of a national audience for the first time there. Also, there is that whole attitude era thing that wwe sorta stole from ecw. Pretty much everything you see today you owe in some way shape or form to ECW. You are wrong in every possible way. ECW innovated Not. One. Thing. Every one of their supposed "innovative creations" was pretty much stolen from Mid-South or Japan.
|
|
|
Post by Alex Shelley on Jun 17, 2010 16:33:59 GMT -5
I guess I'm one of the few people who loved the fans getting themselves over. I love fan interaction and fans making themselves a part of the show.
|
|
|
Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Jun 17, 2010 16:35:44 GMT -5
Justin Credible may have never existed. And that's a bad thing....how???
|
|
|
Post by lildude8218 on Jun 17, 2010 16:38:26 GMT -5
People bashing ECW is hardly anything new. If you look back at some of the early internet stuff, the company got bashed A LOT. Look up Herb Kunze's wrestling tidbits. he HATED ECW
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 16:48:41 GMT -5
Justin Credible may have never existed. And that's a bad thing....how??? I was curious about this one myself. As for ECW, I loved it at the time, and most of the golden era is still good. I, however, think that a lot of people look back at it through rose colored glasses. Like most things people are nostalgic for; they look past the bad and remember only the good. Going out of business was probably the best thing to happen to the legacy of ECW; it became almost like a martyr for the cause.
|
|
|
Post by losthead on Jun 17, 2010 17:00:44 GMT -5
I just want to respond to a post here:
Sandman got over in WWE without a 10 minute entrance, and was even over as hell when they took away the beer. His matches got pops.
Balls maybe didn't get hugely over in WWE, but he was there for almost two years.
|
|
|
Post by Ultimo Chocula on Jun 17, 2010 17:11:27 GMT -5
ECW did something that needed to happen, it got wrestling out of the cartoony stage that was killing it. At that point both WWF and WCW were filled to the brim with gimmick wrestlers that nobody could take seriously. Hell, I remember watching Portland wrestling and the main event had a guy with a caveman gimmick, complete with Fred Flintstone style animal pelt. While ECW also had it's fair share of gimmick wrestlers, they still had an aura of being able to kick your ass from here to Toledo. ECW reintroduced the element of, holy crap, this is real and these guys really do hate each other. Wrestling will always need that element no matter what.
However, the one thing that I will always bash ECW for was the idea that any jackoff in a black t-shirt and jean cutoffs can swing a kendo stick around while cutting a promo that consists primarily of the word "ass" and call himself a pro wrestler. This is a trend that is stil happening and needs to die right now.
|
|
|
Post by noleafclover1980 on Jun 17, 2010 17:22:02 GMT -5
I really liked ECW and all but IMO, that's a bit of a stretch. For my money the best alla round product in NA of all time was when WCW was at it's peak, during the height of the nWo. You had the star power with big names, a ton of great technical wrestlers, and an amazing cruiser division to compliment the hottest angle in years. And this is coming from someone who was a lifelong WWF fan that only watched WCW leading into that as a wrestling fix before Raw came on.
|
|
Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,737
|
Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jun 17, 2010 17:42:20 GMT -5
I really liked ECW and all but IMO, that's a bit of a stretch. For my money the best alla round product in NA of all time was when WCW was at it's peak, during the height of the nWo. You had the star power with big names, a ton of great technical wrestlers, and an amazing cruiser division to compliment the hottest angle in years. And this is coming from someone who was a lifelong WWF fan that only watched WCW leading into that as a wrestling fix before Raw came on. Keep in mind most of those great wrestlers that helped carry Nitro wouldn't have been there without ECW (Jericho, Raven, Benoit, Malenko, Eddie, Chavo, Saturn, Rey Mysterio Jr, Juventud, Psichosis and just about every other lucha-libre that they signed).
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Jun 17, 2010 19:57:09 GMT -5
I guess I'm one of the few people who loved the fans getting themselves over. I love fan interaction and fans making themselves a part of the show. Look at the big guys from companies before ECW. Ric Flair had wrestled for over twenty years by that point and was healthy. Hogan had been going for twenty himself. Randy Savage about the same. Ricky Steamboat wrestled for over twenty years before a freak injury. Harley Race wrestled from 1960 till at least the late 80's. Bruno Sammartino wrestled into the 1980's. You couldn't drag these guys away from the ring. Major ECW alumni? They retire after 10 or 15 years. Or take years at a time off. The fans getting themselves over nearly killed these guys because.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Jun 17, 2010 19:58:33 GMT -5
ECW did something that needed to happen, it got wrestling out of the cartoony stage that was killing it. At that point both WWF and WCW were filled to the brim with gimmick wrestlers that nobody could take seriously. Hell, I remember watching Portland wrestling and the main event had a guy with a caveman gimmick, complete with Fred Flintstone style animal pelt. While ECW also had it's fair share of gimmick wrestlers, they still had an aura of being able to kick your ass from here to Toledo. ECW reintroduced the element of, holy crap, this is real and these guys really do hate each other. Wrestling will always need that element no matter what. Are you sure that wasn't Taz?
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Jun 17, 2010 20:01:51 GMT -5
I really liked ECW and all but IMO, that's a bit of a stretch. For my money the best alla round product in NA of all time was when WCW was at it's peak, during the height of the nWo. You had the star power with big names, a ton of great technical wrestlers, and an amazing cruiser division to compliment the hottest angle in years. And this is coming from someone who was a lifelong WWF fan that only watched WCW leading into that as a wrestling fix before Raw came on. Keep in mind most of those great wrestlers that helped carry Nitro wouldn't have been there without ECW (Jericho, Raven, Benoit, Malenko, Eddie, Chavo, Saturn, Rey Mysterio Jr, Juventud, Psichosis and just about every other lucha-libre that they signed). Raven and Benoit had had stints in WCW already. Malenko had at least wrestled in the NWA tag tournament but Idon't know if there was still anybody around Bisch's WCW that had seen him. Hector Guerrero had wrestled for the company when it was the NWA and Eddie'd met Benoit in Japan. Rey Sr also wrestled in a WCW tourney. Many of these guys worked in Japan, too and WCW may have seen them during their talent swaps.
|
|
biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
|
Post by biafra on Jun 17, 2010 21:18:14 GMT -5
ECW single by itself got me back into wrestling. I lived for that shit...and still enjoy it.
People ca hate all they want...it is their right. But nothing can quite match the experience of being a fan in the mid - late nineties.
|
|
sabu
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,605
|
Post by sabu on Jun 17, 2010 21:38:39 GMT -5
I really liked ECW and all but IMO, that's a bit of a stretch. For my money the best alla round product in NA of all time was when WCW was at it's peak, during the height of the nWo. You had the star power with big names, a ton of great technical wrestlers, and an amazing cruiser division to compliment the hottest angle in years. And this is coming from someone who was a lifelong WWF fan that only watched WCW leading into that as a wrestling fix before Raw came on. Keep in mind most of those great wrestlers that helped carry Nitro wouldn't have been there without ECW (Jericho, Raven, Benoit, Malenko, Eddie, Chavo, Saturn, Rey Mysterio Jr, Juventud, Psichosis and just about every other lucha-libre that they signed). and BOOM goes the dynamite
|
|