ECW not getting any respect anymore!?

[chriskessaris3hm]

So I've read a few people on these boards badmouthing ECW as of late. I've read Mark Madden badmouth ECW. Lots of people have over the years. Saying this and that about it. When I think of the ECW, the REAL ECW from 1993-2001, I think of the best ALL AROUND wrestling product that North America has ever seen. Sure WWE and WCW went through periods of great shows...but they always cooled off and presented some pretty bad ones too. ECW on the otherhand was always cutting edge. It didn't have glitz and glamour because WRESTLING DOESN'T NEED IT!!! You don't need pyro or crazy lights or shiny costumes...you just need talent. And no matter if it was garbage wrestling, technical wrestling, lucha libra or just all out brawls, ECW ALWAYS gave you a show to remember.

I don't like hearing people badmouth ECW because "they weren't successful this, or ratings that"...bullshit. The fact is that TNN kept trying to make them into a WWE type show. PPV providers refused to pay out owed dividens from ppvs. Money that was supposed to make it in the budget never came. From what I understand Paul Heyman threatened to sue ondemand ppv provider for failure to pay out and they said fine, but you can't run anymore ppvs and the trial will last for years. So success is a fickle thing. BTW, WCW made money hand over fist in 1996-1998...and they went out just as quick.

ECW was an independent promotion that had a cult following because they were the true alternative, much like ROH is today. And just because there was a lot of garbage wrestling, don't forget that there was a lot of amazing technical wrestling and lucha stuff that was on display in front of a national audience for the first time there. Also, there is that whole attitude era thing that wwe sorta stole from ecw.

Pretty much everything you see today you owe in some way shape or form to ECW.

[The Genesis of KoOS]

I mainly hate the ECW fans who can sit there and chant "Cena Sucks" towards John Cena and "You Can't Wrestle" at Big Show and Batista, yet cheered guys like 911, The Sandman, New Jack, Hack Myers, Balls Mahoney, etc. over the years.

ECW fans act like they brought good wrestling to the "mainstream", while they had guys like Malenko, Guerrero, Benoit, etc. putting on good matches. WWF had guys like HBK, Bret Hart, Scott Hall, Owen Hart. WCW had Flair, Steamboat, Austin, Sting, Anderson, etc. So it's not like ECW just had the only talented wrestlers in the business.

[AriadosMan]

I don't hate ECW.
I do hate the endless "ECW homages" that various other companies have done since its demise. ECW nostalgia is probably one of the most tapped out resources in the modern wrestling industry.

[neal]

ECW had it's moments, primarily from 1993 to 1996. But it's far from the greatest promotion of all time, and as much good that came from it's existence, plenty of bad came from it as well. For every Dean Malenko, you have a Ian Rotten. No need to overcompensate against the folks that see no value at all with ECW with outlandish claims that ECW's poop didn't stink like everyone else's.

[sunwukong]

Jun 17, 2010 2:22:44 GMT -5 @neal said:

ECW had it's moments, primarily from 1993 to 1996. But it's far from the greatest promotion of all time, and as much good that came from it's existence, plenty of bad came from it as well. For every Dean Malenko, you have a Ian Rotten. No need to overcompensate against the folks that see no value at all with ECW with outlandish claims that ECW's poop didn't stink like everyone else's.

This pretty much says exactly what I wanted to. Sure, there was good stuff. But there was a ton of bad stuff. And the further we get away from ECW's heyday, the more I feel like everything about the promotion has aged terribly. And the endless nostalgia is grating.

[johnnyk9]

I don't hate ECW, but it did ruin Professional Wrestling in my opinion

[quantum]

I agree with the last 3 posters and IMO the crap ECW put on over the few years they were around unfotunetly over sdhadowed the good (much like WCW in it['s later years). Where as the good WWF and WCW were putting on during ECW peak (around 1995-1997) over shadowed (by far)the bad

[machomuta]

Jun 17, 2010 1:44:32 GMT -5 chriskessaris3hm said:

, I think of the best ALL AROUND wrestling product that North America has ever seen.

Have you ever heard about ROH?

ROH is way better then ECW.

[Kris Kobain]

I still love it to this day.

If it wasn't for ECW there may not have been a cruiserweight division in WCW which means some of the awesome guys from that division may not have become what they did.

There may not have been a hardcore title in the WWE

Raven may have continued being Johnny Polo and other ridiculous gimmicks

a guy like Taz likely wuoldn't have made it big.

No Sabu most likely.
Maybe no RVD.

Justin Credible may have never existed.

WCW may have had Steve Austin but it was Paul Heyman who first let him be himself.

All that being said I also liked WCW and WWE although now when I watch WCW I think for the most part it is crap.

[quantum]

Jun 17, 2010 5:43:47 GMT -5 Kris Kobain said:

All that being said I also liked WCW and WWE although now when I watch WCW I think for the most part it is crap.

Here here! The attitude era has not aged well at all and watching old episodes of Nitro and Raw is pretty dull now during this time as it was all shock based and 'crash TV'. Once the shock is taken away and you know what is going to happen the product looses most of it's value. However there are still many good PPVs to watch from WWF and WCW from during this time which still stand as great PPVs and shows.

[nerdinitupagain]

Yeah I've noticed the negative trend on ECW.. I think it's a backlash of the "smark"

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2010 5:42:08 GMT -5 machomuta said:

Jun 17, 2010 1:44:32 GMT -5 chriskessaris3hm said:

, I think of the best ALL AROUND wrestling product that North America has ever seen.

Have you ever heard about ROH?

ROH is way better then ECW.

Both opinions and not fact.

[Deleted]

Ask Rob Van Dam or Dean Malenko if ECW was bad for wrestling. They had WCW experience, but most-likely would not have made it as far as they have without a company like ECW around.

I'm not saying ECW was the "gold standard" that all wrestling companies should strive to be, but one of their strengths was to make somebodies out of nobodies.

The thing I liked about ECW (remember I was a fan from 1995-2000) was how it seemed like every match mattered. There was always something to fight over, from the first match to the last. Or there was a storyline being furthered in said match. Will this be the week the Dudley Boys finally stand up to D-Von? Will Tommy Dreamer ever beat Raven? Can somebody shut up 2 Cold Scorpio and take his TV title?

I also enjoyed the mic work. Believe me, some of those match-ups were brutal. I'd rather see an 8-minute promo and a 3-minute match between JT Smith and Hack Myers than vice versa. Without the mic work, Mick Foley would not be as over as he was. Raven was not a great wrestler by any means (he wrestled exactly like 70% of the roster), but the build-up through mic-work made him seem interesting and different.

[DavidArquette]

I'm one of those that doesn't 'get' why ECW was so popular as I wasn't watching it at the time. I think ECW did a lot of good for the business but it's also done a lot of damage that we still see now. That being pushing the envelope day in day out, audiences trying to get themselves over, and letting untalented guys believe they can be a wrestler as long as they can swing chairs, go through tables and take a DDT.

I do like ECW in small doses, mostly stuff from '99-'00 but It's looked at by so many as being the be all, end all of pro wrestling, THE promotion responsible for wrestling's mainstream success, but it's not. It was the biggest indy promotion ever but was always behind WWF and WCW!

[Shameful_Lobsterhead]

As I well loved ECW because it gave every wrestling fan something they wanted; hardcore action, technical / high flying wrestling, (somewhat) beautiful women; etc. But to agree with one post on here, it's the fans that ruin it because why chant "YOU CAN'T WRESTLE" to guys like Cena, Tista, Show and yet cheer guys (for their ability) like Balls, New Jack, Sandman; guys who have less wrestling skills than the 3 WWE guys I mentioned.

[willywonka666]

I really liked ECW pre-TNN. I've been watching wrestling for almost 25 years, and I really love the build up and interviews for matches. I don't care if the match is a technical one or a brawl, ECW had some really great stuff, something for everybody.

Some of the best things aren't destined to stay around very long. ECW was of its time and it cannot be duplicated in this day and age, and that's sad.

Anyway, and not to criticize, but if the thread had started out stressing it more as an opinion that ECW was good, there might not have been so much backlash.

Also as far as crediting ECW, don't forget about the CWA in Memphis, who ECW owes some appreciation to.

[bigsplash]

ECW was great in many ways in that it made new stars, and their realistic influence rubbed off on WCW/WWE

Their feuds were unlike what we saw from the big companies.


Since then however so much bad has happened because of it. Like others have mentioned the fans are terrible and their "smarkiness" has changed the business for the worse.

Independent promotions seem to try to copy the "ECW" style with extreme matches and worked shoot promos and it really is all very terrible.

Like many have been critical of lately, there has been a group of wrestlers with very little talent doing crazy nonsense to get themselves over. They have been bought up watching ECW and figure jumping off a balcony or using a staple gun will be instant success.

Because of this it is harder and harder for fans to pop for big moves anymore. I applaud WWE for toning things down a bit the past few years, so that way when something like that does happen, the fans will react to it as something important.

[sabu]

I'm a big Crockett Promotions mark, but ECW at it's best (mid 90's) was my favorite wrestling promotion ever.

[BitterAF]

I watched ECW back in the day every Saturday morning at 7am and Saturday night at 1:30am. I couldn't get enough wrestling. Looking back on it 12-15 years later and owning a few ECW dvd's, I can't even sit through a New Jack, or Axel or Ian Rotten, or Balls match. And depending on who he's facing, The Sandman can be thrown in there too. These were guys who could not go in the ring and do a standard wrestling match. They HAD to have weapons in order to get their match over. The Sandman HAD to have a 10 minute entrance and spill and spit beer on people and to use his singapore cane to get a pop.

ECW did have it's fair share of quality wrestlers who didn't have to have a fancy (for ECW) entrance or mic time, just ring time. Guys like Jericho, Malenko, RVD, Storm, Rey Jr., Eddie, and Taz to name a few. But when they got over, all of those guys (except RVD) left. They at points had good talent, but they didn't stay. This hurt ECW because while they had great in ring workers here and there, they always had hardcore which overshadowed the in-ring work IMO. So when I think of ECW, I think of tables, chairs, fire, barbed wire, etc.. It's not exactly the best thing to be remembered by. Looking back now that I'm older, they over did that, sadly. In fact, when I was little and towards the end of ECW, I didn't care about it as much. It became stale in only a couple of years. I guess when I think of wrestling and think of workers like Jericho, Malenko, RVD, etc.. I think of in-ring work, not what weapons they use every match. So while it did work, doing it on a nightly basis hurt the company in the long run and I think the excessive violence is what gives it a bad rep these days. The other garbage promotions that keep trying to recreate ECW doesn't make things better. Now we have a bunch of half-a**ed trained regular Joe's doing this stuff, which gives wrestling in itself a bad rep.

To sum things up, I think ECW is getting remembered for the wrong reasons. They were a company that gave guys a chance to move up in the ranks of pro wrestling, and many of them did very well for themselves. Sadly, the guys that were given a chance and stuck with ECW from beginning to end that couldn't make it in the big leagues is what I think ECW is remembered by (Balls, Axl, Ian, Sandman); just a bunch of guys using violence to get over and when hardcore ran it's course, people badmouth it.

[samoanswatteam]

For me, ECW was definitely more of a "had to be there" kind of thing. I enjoyed it and it will always have a place in my heart but I can understand why people who didn't get to see it live or even see it on tv in the late 90s wouldn't appreciate it.