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Post by poi zen rana on Jul 13, 2010 8:11:34 GMT -5
I just find it funny that a few weeks ago, when the focus was on Flair's group Fortune, many complaints on this board complained because Fortune was not like the Horsemen. Now people are complaining because this ECW stable is not original enough?
I don't really care much about the angle now, I tune in for different reasons. I do, however, see potential in this angle. I think people are too quick to call it dumb or assume it is all going to be about "reliving" ECW. I think it will play out more as a stable created ex ECW guys which has them and some newer faces helping out. In the same sense I didn't really feel that the Band was another NWO. It was comprised of ex NWO guys and was obviously built because of their working together in the NWO, but that didn't mean it was the NWO. It was it's own thing (at least in my perspective). Now I wasn't a fan of the Band but I do think it is possible that TNA can have ex members of something reunite without it having to be a rehash of what that thing originally did.
Basically I think this ECW stable could be good as long as they go somewhere new with it and use most of the ECW veterans to develop story and give promos. If as you are suggesting they wrestle all the time and it is just a rehash of ECW then I will share your woes and hate it. I just still have hope left.
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Post by spongeboobnopants on Jul 13, 2010 8:27:43 GMT -5
I just find it funny that a few weeks ago, when the focus was on Flair's group Fortune, many complaints on this board complained because Fortune was not like the Horsemen. Now people are complaining because this ECW stable is not original enough? I don't really care much about the angle now, I tune in for different reasons. I do, however, see potential in this angle. I think people are too quick to call it dumb or assume it is all going to be about "reliving" ECW. I think it will play out more as a stable created ex ECW guys which has them and some newer faces helping out. In the same sense I didn't really feel that the Band was another NWO. It was comprised of ex NWO guys and was obviously built because of their working together in the NWO, but that didn't mean it was the NWO. It was it's own thing (at least in my perspective). Now I wasn't a fan of the Band but I do think it is possible that TNA can have ex members of something reunite without it having to be a rehash of what that thing originally did. Basically I think this ECW stable could be good as long as they go somewhere new with it and use most of the ECW veterans to develop story and give promos. If as you are suggesting they wrestle all the time and it is just a rehash of ECW then I will share your woes and hate it. I just still have hope left. This
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 9:56:41 GMT -5
I just find it funny that a few weeks ago, when the focus was on Flair's group Fortune, many complaints on this board complained because Fortune was not like the Horsemen. Now people are complaining because this ECW stable is not original enough? I agree with everything your post except this. If they go somewhere with the ECW invasion angle - then I think it'll pay off in spades, but I don't remember people complaining that Fortune was not like the Horsemen. I recall it being the contrary actually and nearly everyone was complaining how stupid it was to so obviously rip off the Four Horsemen. There was an entire thread making fun of the name "Fourtune" too and comparing it to a water downed Evolution. Any nostalgia group rehash will always get razzed by me though. Originality - wrestling needs more of it.
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Post by poi zen rana on Jul 13, 2010 10:16:00 GMT -5
I believe the thread where people expressed dislike for the name Fortune is the thread I was speaking of. There were multiple posts there where people were complaining about the differences between the Horsemen and Fortune. Off the top of my head the post I remember the most was decrying Fortune because unlike the Horsemen they did not organically come together as friends. The complaint was that unlike the Horsemen, Fortune was being assembled rather than mutually teaming up through comraderie. That post I recall because I thought it was silly to complain about something because it was different. There were also posts insinuating that since Flair had mentioned the Horsemen then this obviously was meant to be the same. I disagreed
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 10:33:39 GMT -5
I believe the thread where people expressed dislike for the name Fortune is the thread I was speaking of. There were multiple posts there where people were complaining about the differences between the Horsemen and Fortune. Off the top of my head the post I remember the most was decrying Fortune because unlike the Horsemen they did not organically come together as friends. The complaint was that unlike the Horsemen, Fortune was being assembled rather than mutually teaming up through comraderie. That post I recall because I thought it was silly to complain about something because it was different. There were also posts insinuating that since Flair had mentioned the Horsemen then this obviously was meant to be the same. I disagreed Yeah - that is a pretty stupid argument. I remember the general consenus being that Fortune was such an obvious 4 Horsemen rip off and that TNA is still stuck in the past in terms of its ideas. Which would parallel the current ECW-esque stable cropping up. Anyway - I'll be interested to hear the motivation behind this stable's formation.
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Post by sabu on Jul 13, 2010 13:40:05 GMT -5
focal group? Don't they mean FOCUS group?
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Post by Paul on Jul 13, 2010 14:33:23 GMT -5
focal group? Don't they mean FOCUS group? They mean FOKE group!
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jul 13, 2010 16:40:03 GMT -5
I just find it funny that a few weeks ago, when the focus was on Flair's group Fortune, many complaints on this board complained because Fortune was not like the Horsemen. Now people are complaining because this ECW stable is not original enough? I didn't read those posts. My only confusion is: Flair: "I'm reforming the 4 horsemen" Audience: Yay Flair: But I'm not calling them the horsemen. Audience: Okay Flair: We're calling them Fourtune Audience: cool Flair: me and these 5 guys Audience: huh? Flair: I think they're not as good as the horsemen though. Oh sorry forgot about you Wolfe.
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 13, 2010 19:20:00 GMT -5
I just thought it was because they were courting Paul E. Dangerously. That's what I think too. It's their way of saying "Hey Paul! Look! We're doing ECW stuff! We're on the same page as you! Come work here!" The funny part is that they are too stupid to realize that Heyman keeps saying that wrestling needs to move into the future. I'm no fortune teller, but I can almost guarantee that if Heyman takes over, the ECW stable will go away pretty quickly. To me it seems like something he wouldn't like because it reeks of the past. Yeah, from the interview he did with Meltzer last week I think Heyman would try to make TNA more like UFC. Which I honestly am not sure would be anymore successful than the current way TNA is being run. Because most people who like that style watch UFC anyway. So why watch a "fake" version?
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Post by I Like Your Poetry on Jul 13, 2010 19:22:37 GMT -5
Yes, let's appeal to a bunch of 30-something old man-children who were never truly able to come to grips with the fact that their beloved promotion is long gone.
The company is gone, has been for almost TEN YEARS.
This is just an attempt to get some faded (not fading, FADED) stars some last glory since they were never able to get over on their own merits, apparently.
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 13, 2010 20:33:08 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with having fond memories, but why not instead do things similar to ECW, and angles that had a feel to the original ECW. Maybe not the exact guys, or violence, or whatever. But, intriguing angles at least, which is what they did in the original ECW. They should focus on TNA, and put these guys in situations that relate to TNA, and not ECW. Again, I love all 4 guys, but TNA seems to be about the past, and not the present. This. The ECW thing just comes off as TNA throwing crap against the wall and hoping to god it sticks
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Post by poi zen rana on Jul 14, 2010 8:11:42 GMT -5
I just find it funny that a few weeks ago, when the focus was on Flair's group Fortune, many complaints on this board complained because Fortune was not like the Horsemen. Now people are complaining because this ECW stable is not original enough? I didn't read those posts. My only confusion is: Flair: "I'm reforming the 4 horsemen" Audience: Yay Flair: But I'm not calling them the horsemen. Audience: Okay Flair: We're calling them Fourtune Audience: cool Flair: me and these 5 guys Audience: huh? Flair: I think they're not as good as the horsemen though. Oh sorry forgot about you Wolfe. If you feel the urge to look they were in a thread with the name Fortune in title as I recall. I agree with you on the fan reaction. I just happen to believe that was the intended reaction. The way I see this storyline it is about Flair being an old legend who wants to recreate his glory days. However he is going about it wrong and his ego has convinced him he was what mattered about the Horsemen, so he can just create another super stable. He keeps getting frusterated that his protoges aren't winning all the matches he tells them to and instead of having a close bond like Horsemen this group focuses on each individual doing what they can to gain Flair's approval. Much more self centered than a group effort. I think the whole reason for bringing up the Horsemen was so that the audience would compare the two (which are being booked quite differently) and see that this one is much more forced. I don't think TNA decided to remake the Horsemen and expected it to be the same. If that was their intention then yes they have failed miserably. I think most facts point to them attempting something different here and trying to bring focus to how different things are.
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Post by casualobserver on Jul 15, 2010 22:37:42 GMT -5
So if they did the survey in Dallas, would Kevin Von Erich and Iceman King Parsons be leading the World Class Invasion?
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jul 16, 2010 6:38:22 GMT -5
Instead of making my own thread I'm just going to use this one for my told you so moment. About 6 months ago I was calling for an ECW stable and you guys shit on me for like 4 pages. Wether you like it or not, I called it. That is all.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 16, 2010 6:48:51 GMT -5
That's what I think too. It's their way of saying "Hey Paul! Look! We're doing ECW stuff! We're on the same page as you! Come work here!" The funny part is that they are too stupid to realize that Heyman keeps saying that wrestling needs to move into the future. I'm no fortune teller, but I can almost guarantee that if Heyman takes over, the ECW stable will go away pretty quickly. To me it seems like something he wouldn't like because it reeks of the past. Yeah, from the interview he did with Meltzer last week I think Heyman would try to make TNA more like UFC. Which I honestly am not sure would be anymore successful than the current way TNA is being run. Because most people who like that style watch UFC anyway. So why watch a "fake" version? I don't know if he'd necessarily make it exactly like UFC, but he'd certainly utilize some of the elements that make it successful. And he needs to. The Sports Entertainment mold (used by both WWE & TNA) is broken and desperately needs to be completely re-tooled and re-imagined. Products evolve and have evolved. Each boom came from a radical departure of how things were previously done. Its time again. Phantom camera-men, variety show-esque "comedy" skits for no reason, fourth-wall breaking buffoonery, and a departure from the importance of wins & losses have hurt this industry. I'd love to see TNA blaze a new way of how wrestling is seen and done; more of an "entertaining" sport as opposed to "Sports Entertainment'. It might take a while, but it could finally shake shit up again and revitalize an industry being slowly burned at both ends.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 16, 2010 7:03:29 GMT -5
Yeah, from the interview he did with Meltzer last week I think Heyman would try to make TNA more like UFC. Which I honestly am not sure would be anymore successful than the current way TNA is being run. Because most people who like that style watch UFC anyway. So why watch a "fake" version? I don't know if he'd necessarily make it exactly like UFC, but he'd certainly utilize some of the elements that make it successful. And he needs to. The Sports Entertainment mold (used by both WWE & TNA) is broken and desperately needs to be completely re-tooled and re-imagined. Products evolve and have evolved. Each boom came from a radical departure of how things were previously done. Its time again. Phantom camera-men, variety show-esque "comedy" skits for no reason, fourth-wall breaking buffoonery, and a departure from the importance of wins & losses have hurt this industry. I'd love to see TNA blaze a new way of how wrestling is seen and done; more of an "entertaining" sport as opposed to "Sports Entertainment'. It might take a while, but it could finally shake s*** up again and revitalize an industry being slowly burned at both ends. The problem is TNA has the same mindset that WCW had, that they can't afford to deviate since they're fighting a war. A war of their own making that the opposition largely doesn't care about but a war nevertheless. See WCW could have been saved had they just concentrated on putting their own house in 99-2000 order instead of trying to futilely catch the WWF. But while Bischoff and Hogan are there, nothing will change. They're both too stuck in their mindsets. And since they were responsible for the two big boom periods in wrestling they can't be wrong, right?
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Post by Snowman on Jul 16, 2010 8:20:59 GMT -5
Instead of making my own thread I'm just going to use this one for my told you so moment. About 6 months ago I was calling for an ECW stable and you guys s*** on me for like 4 pages. Wether you like it or not, I called it. That is all. Congratulations, you win the internet.
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Post by Shameful_Lobsterhead on Jul 16, 2010 10:50:47 GMT -5
So they decided to make an ECW stable because people from Philly remembers and loved ECW. So if they do a survey in Carolinas, will they do a Mid-Atlantic group? Tenay -"Taz! Look, is that? No Way." Taz -"Oh my God Mike, that's Magnum TA, Nikita Kollof, Tully Blanchard and Road Warrior Animal" Haha
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Jul 16, 2010 10:53:07 GMT -5
Instead of making my own thread I'm just going to use this one for my told you so moment. About 6 months ago I was calling for an ECW stable and you guys s*** on me for like 4 pages. Wether you like it or not, I called it. That is all. Congratulations, you win the internet.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Jul 16, 2010 15:04:12 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with having fond memories, but why not instead do things similar to ECW, and angles that had a feel to the original ECW. Maybe not the exact guys, or violence, or whatever. But, intriguing angles at least, which is what they did in the original ECW. They should focus on TNA, and put these guys in situations that relate to TNA, and not ECW. Again, I love all 4 guys, but TNA seems to be about the past, and not the present. As I said in a different thread, it would surely be better for all involved if this was just ECW guys endorsing a set of new hardcore style guys. I just get the feeling that the whole aura of 'Extreme' will fall apart when people see Tommy Dreamer and Raven rolling around the ring. For what it's worth, while I don't agree with the hero-worship that Heyman gets, I do agree with him if he thinks TNA should be more like MMA. I don't neccesarily think pro-wrestling is broken, the WWE are doing just fine. I just think TNA need to do something original and different, and using MMA/Boxing style techniques to make your big matches 'events' would be a step in the right direction.
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