|
Post by Michael Coello on Jun 29, 2010 23:37:36 GMT -5
Really, it's a bit of a jump to compare Angle and RVD. Angle came in right after his WWE run, while RVD was chilling out at home for a year or so. Plus, the hype for that was present right away when Angle was there, not really in the case of RVD. That doesn't mean that TNA shouldn't treat RVD/Joe as a big deal. It's their job to make you want to see a match, so what's the point of them throwing away the match with no buildup or for no reason, when they could have made something special of it? Well, since it hasn't happen, it's not as clear cut to say no build up or reason for it.
|
|
metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
|
Post by metylerca on Jun 29, 2010 23:39:38 GMT -5
January 4th's Impact was the culmination of weeks of advertising the hell out of the episode. Angle/AJ on that show was just icing on the cake. For proof, the ratings went right back down after all the initial interest wore off and TNA failed to capitalize. What they should concentrate on is PPV buyrates as that's where the money is at. They don't have to give away PPV quality matches to build up to a PPV, they just need to present compelling storylines that people would pay to see conclude at the PPV. TNA has got this backwards, as they throw out all their big moments on Impact for anyone to see (and anyone is still the usual 1.1 or so who will watch regardless), rather than making PPV's seem special because they can just watch Impact to see something more important occur. Case in point, the RVD title change. Really, say how TNA needs to focus on PPV all you want, and point to AJ/Joe as the proof, but you need to remember that it only affected that one PPV. It didn't really affect the next one, or the one after. The Lockdown one did better, but it cuts the whole issue of first time matches down, since it was their 5th time wrestling each other. I think you meant Angle/Joe, and yes, I stand by what I say. If the PPVs thereafter didn't properly follow up on what the first Angle/Joe encounter brought them, then it's their fault for not capitalizing on the spike in interest. They should always look to raise the bar, not just be content with where they are at. That's the point of a business, to expand and grow. Angle/Joe at Lockdown was awesomely booked and had a sense of closure to the entire Angle/Joe feud, as well as the "Joe chasing the title" storyline. It's no wonder the buyrate jumped. But this would have never happened if TNA didn't treat the Angle/Joe series of matches as a big deal, just like RVD/Joe is worthless if they don't capitalize on how big it could be if they hyped it as such.
|
|
Dee.
Team Rocket
Posts: 997
|
Post by Dee. on Jun 29, 2010 23:55:37 GMT -5
So 'Maggie' is back and has a match for the Global belt on Xplosion -- even though he has a match for it again at Victory Road? Oh well, glad to see his smug ass on television again. Doug losing makes sense if you remember that this is a LADDER MATCH; not a technical, submission-based man's cup of tea.
And it looks like a nice little show!
|
|
BigAl
Unicron
Hands of the Wicked Banana
Posts: 2,851
|
Post by BigAl on Jun 30, 2010 0:22:49 GMT -5
Alright Tna did something right for once. Sarita rightfully won the match, this feud is over. Please Tna, don't keep this feud going. This feud is over, Sarita won, and now she should get pushed as top heel. Do not let Taylor win this feud like she did with Daffney. No, it means their feud is over, their contract will be up, no need to renewal, for they are not TBP.
|
|
|
Post by veldfire on Jun 30, 2010 1:06:10 GMT -5
I can get behind Sarita feuding with the new BP. Thing is the BP's whole act depends on them being heel or it doesn't work. See Angelina since she came back. So therefore, heel Sarita has no-one to feud with. Booking is what has stymied Angelina's face time though. Not necessarily that she was a face. She returns by being shown in the crowd prior to the attack. Which kind of gives it away. But....meh,okay. Not the greatest way to redebut her but still workable. After that though, the s*** hit the proverbial creative fan. No mic work by Angelina that week, the next week, or on Impact until February, iirc. That's a huge mistake by creative. Especially considering that she's strong on the mic. Right away with the lack of follow up. She's booked quite weakly and basically gets outmaneuvered or beaten down week after week. Tara not only defeats her, but becomes like her big sister guardian and rescues her more than once. And is allowed to look generally more formidable than Love is. She wins the belt in about the least credible way possible. Despite largely playing victim to the BP for months, she doesn't get the feud blow off win. But rather loses the belt and is immediately hotshotted into a new feud with Tara without the old one reconciling. She goes from beatdown subject for the Beautiful People to sneak attack victim for Tara. Tara leaves TNA, rending any point or benefit of that mute. And Love is injured besides. Not saying I necessarily disagree that the BP (or even inherently Angelina) work better as heels. That may very well be the case. But Love's face run hasn't been alllowed to get off the ground because of one creative misstep after another. Cool to see she's still hanging in popularity wise. Cause creative did almost nothing positive for her prior to her injury. I actually think Love vs Sarita has potential to be a strong feud. And a possible shot in the arm for the division. Even with Love as the face. But they have to give the story more than a three minute tag match every other week with sparse to no mic work for significant periods. Otherwise, it won't gel. I still wish they'd do something, anything, with Daffney. If you're gonna keep those damn tag belts then get her a partner. Bring in MsChif. I don't disagree here. Personally, I think Daffney should be among the core of the division or at least float back and forth through it. MsChif would be great stuff. Though I doubt that would happen. IIRC, she said she's not interested in TNA before. And given the state of it's product now, probably moreso these days. Perhaps Katie Lea might be a fun partner for her. For a while, I was even teasing in my mind that it might be interesting to turn Daffney face and have her team with Angelina. Sort of a Ink Inc. type act. (I ran this through my mind before that team was formed.) Wasn't to be, which is okay. But yeah, I wish they'de allow her to look more credible. She certainly didn't get anything out of losing to Tara repeatedly. Ftr, I'm somewhat concerned she might not be around in TNA for too much longer. At this point, given the new regime's disdain for women's wrestling and things that might draw more attention than their favored ideas, I'm even just slightly concerned they might pull a Roxxi on Angelina. With some kind of "We want to renegotiate your contract or else" type move. I don't actually think it will happen. But the TNA product is so out of synch now, little negative would surprise me anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Clarence "Showstealer" Mason on Jun 30, 2010 1:46:32 GMT -5
Doug losing makes sense if you remember that this is a LADDER MATCH; not a technical, submission-based man's cup of tea. It doesn't make sense to job the X Division Champion to a guy that hasn't won match one in TNA yet, regardless of what type of match it is. That'd be like The Miz jobbing to Yoshi Tatsu.
|
|
comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by comahan on Jun 30, 2010 1:52:23 GMT -5
Doug losing makes sense if you remember that this is a LADDER MATCH; not a technical, submission-based man's cup of tea. It doesn't make sense to job the X Division Champion to a guy that hasn't won match one in TNA yet, regardless of what type of match it is. That'd be like The Miz jobbing to Yoshi Tatsu. GenMe have won some tag matches, including their debut against MCMG
|
|
|
Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Jun 30, 2010 2:29:30 GMT -5
Cause it's good. Plus, rematches, in some cases, don't really suffer from it, since if the first one was good, you still have interest to get a second one. Undertaker Vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania aside, I can't recall any hyped up second encounter that came even close to matching the first. Austin vs. Rock? Every encounter ever.
|
|
vivix
ALF
Strike Hard Strike Fast
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by vivix on Jun 30, 2010 2:56:51 GMT -5
RVD defeated Samoa Joe in what was said to be an awesome match with a rollup. The ECW guys appeared in the crowd during the match. After the match, Joe gave the ref a Muscle Buster Why? I seriously would have paid to see this but, you hotshot it onto Impact. bischoff
|
|
JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 41,970
|
Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jun 30, 2010 5:13:45 GMT -5
Undertaker Vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania aside, I can't recall any hyped up second encounter that came even close to matching the first. Austin vs. Rock? Every encounter ever. This, Big Time!
|
|
Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
|
Post by Jimmy on Jun 30, 2010 6:17:57 GMT -5
I just don't get what TNA is even trying to accomplish anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan on Jun 30, 2010 6:56:04 GMT -5
I would've preferred Joe/RVD on PPV. But I don't blame them for booking it on free TV - nobody orders the PPV's anyway. Wasn't there even talk that TNA was going to scrap PPV's all together?
I look at it like this - Benoit/Angle, Flair/Steamboat, Dreamer/Raven, Rock/Austin, HBK/Taker (and maybe some others) drew every time. They drew because they had the right booking & fans knew they would have a memorable, 4-5 star match every time they wrestled. I would buy a TNA PPV that was main evented by Joe & Van Dam, because my thought process is "Well, if they had a great 12 minute TV match, how awesome would a PPV main event between the two be, where they could get 25-35 minutes without commercial interruptions?"
You guys aren't looking at the big picture. A solid Joe/RVD TV match isn't a blowoff, it's an appetizer of things to come. If the booking is right for Joe/RVD 2, 3 & so on, nobody will care that their first match was in the middle of a forgetful-looking Impact.
|
|
Dee.
Team Rocket
Posts: 997
|
Post by Dee. on Jun 30, 2010 6:59:52 GMT -5
Doug losing makes sense if you remember that this is a LADDER MATCH; not a technical, submission-based man's cup of tea. It doesn't make sense to job the X Division Champion to a guy that hasn't won match one in TNA yet, regardless of what type of match it is. That'd be like The Miz jobbing to Yoshi Tatsu. There's this little term called 'putting over'.
|
|
|
Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 30, 2010 7:26:22 GMT -5
Booking is what has stymied Angelina's face time though. Not necessarily that she was a face. That's kinda my point. She was so ingrained as a heel they had no idea what to do with her and so just made her a generic babyface. Yeah, that "Daffney's looking for a partner" angle that lasted about a week due to her getting injured (ironically the last time ODB appeared on TV). My ideal would have been a Daffney/Tara team managed by Dr Stevie but it was not to be. It's clear in hindsight that her feud with Tara was nothing but filler. She only won one match during the entire feud, not comunting that stupid lockbox match, a eight Knockout tag match on iMPACT. I too fear for her. If Sarita is indeed now a heel, in addition to whichever of Lacey/Madison/the BP plays the heel role, there's no room for her anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jun 30, 2010 7:44:02 GMT -5
I would've preferred Joe/RVD on PPV. But I don't blame them for booking it on free TV - nobody orders the PPV's anyway. Wasn't there even talk that TNA was going to scrap PPV's all together? I look at it like this - Benoit/Angle, Flair/Steamboat, Dreamer/Raven, Rock/Austin, HBK/Taker (and maybe some others) drew every time. They drew because they had the right booking & fans knew they would have a memorable, 4-5 star match every time they wrestled. I would buy a TNA PPV that was main evented by Joe & Van Dam, because my thought process is "Well, if they had a great 12 minute TV match, how awesome would a PPV main event between the two be, where they could get 25-35 minutes without commercial interruptions?" You guys aren't looking at the big picture. A solid Joe/RVD TV match isn't a blowoff, it's an appetizer of things to come. If the booking is right for Joe/RVD 2, 3 & so on, nobody will care that their first match was in the middle of a forgetful-looking Impact. Not really here. Would Wrestlemania 18 been as special of the WWE put Rock vs. Hogan on a Raw before? no because it would have took that special feeling when they stared down the first time away. Hell look at Rock vs. Hogan 2. Not nearly the same feeling. Now your comparisons most of the ones you listed first match happened on PPV. Raven and Dreamer didn't because ECW didn't have PPV when they started feuding. Steamboat and Flair was in a time where PPV wasn't as big of a deal because it was a new thing.
|
|
acid
Mike the Goon
Posts: 47
|
Post by acid on Jun 30, 2010 8:28:21 GMT -5
Alright Tna did something right for once. Sarita rightfully won the match, this feud is over. Please Tna, don't keep this feud going. This feud is over, Sarita won, and now she should get pushed as top heel. Do not let Taylor win this feud like she did with Daffney. She won a match against Taylor Wilde. Jobbing queen. On Xplosion. By cheating. I don't exactly sense that she's going to be propelled to the top of the company. ..Why did Douglas Williams lose a match against one of the Buck's when he's in the middle of a feud with Brian Kendrick? Why was it a ladder match? Did Kendrick cause a distraction or something? Mind boggling.
|
|
|
Post by poi zen rana on Jun 30, 2010 8:58:45 GMT -5
I would like to voice my opinion that as a fan I like watching impact and seeing things like Doug v buck ladder match and rvd v Joe. Do I think they could maybe make more money by building things like that up? Sure. But I watch TNA because I am a fan of wrestling, not because I am an enthusiast of financial decisions.
I mean I understand some here apparently would rather watch a weekly program that is used primarily to build up to ppvs and that is cool. I however prefer when they try to put on good shows all the time instead of just at ppvs. If nothing was ever "given away free" on tv then I would never really follow TNA. The fact that they are willing to put shows like that on tv actually makes me more likely to be interested in their ppvs. If they go all out on tv then their ppvs must be great.
To each their own I suppose. I do wonder though, for those of you who hate them giving away ladder matches and Joe/rvd on tv, do you applaud tna when the impact spoilers have fairly boring matches since tna is saving things for ppv? Or do you complain then as well?
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Jun 30, 2010 9:32:03 GMT -5
What? DID I READ AWESOME MATCH? WHY WOULD I WATCH A SHOW WITH AN AWESOME MATCH? UGH THIS IS STUPID BOOKING HAVING AWESOME MATCHES ON FREE TV. RVD/Joe keg carrying IS WHAT US REAL FANS WANT No, what fans want is for wrestling companies like WWE and TNA not give away money matches just for ratings. Image if UFC made Rampage vs Evans a free fight on Spike instead of ppv? I would be happy cause I wouldn't have to pay for it :-\
|
|
|
Post by nerdinitupagain on Jun 30, 2010 9:47:28 GMT -5
I love the armchair quarterback mentality of this board sometimes.
Joe and RVD on a cable television channel that I pay for monthly already... why yes. That makes me thrilled that I won't have to pay to watch it on Pay Per View. I want TNA to survive and all, but... getting matches like that for free is more important to me, the fan. Not me, the guy who pretends to know how to run a pro-wrestling company.
|
|
|
Post by slickster on Jun 30, 2010 10:01:40 GMT -5
Spike pays TNA a flat fee for Impact. TNA draws extra money from PPVs and house shows.
If you run a guaranteed money match like RVD-Joe on Impact, you will not make any extra money off it. Also, it prevents you from doing the match on PPV and getting fan interest because they've already seen it for free.
With Joe-RVD, TNA had a potential BFG-worthy main event and they pissed it away for no money.
Can't you see that if TNA keeps throwing money away like this then they will go out of business and we probably won't see RVD, Sting, etc. on TV ever again?
Again, this is what WCW did: they wasted Hogan-Goldberg on Nitro instead of selling out Starrcade with it. They wasted Hogan vs. Hart on Nitro, as well as Hogan/Hart vs. Blade Runners. The next year, they ran Sting-Goldberg as a bonus match at Havoc 1999 instead of headlining Starrcade 1999 with it.
|
|