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Post by anticonscience on Jul 27, 2010 11:09:46 GMT -5
HOLY CRAP!!!! Just saw in Marvel's solicits that Deadpool is getting a MAX book written by David Laphram! That is gonna be good!
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jul 27, 2010 11:24:35 GMT -5
Kraven is back? Kraven's Last Hunt was one of my favorite Spider-man stories. Damn. They'll bring anyone back. When pray tell did Aunt May become an actress?!?!? Edit: With all this ret-con stuff going on, you'd think they'd let Uncle Ben live for once. I'm actually surprised that they haven't brought Uncle Ben back to life and made him the new Spider-man, given what's happened with Bucky in Marvel and the things I've heard about the second Robin over in DC.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 27, 2010 11:39:36 GMT -5
Franken-Castle's still going? Until issue 21 when he gets his body back proper I believe.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 27, 2010 21:34:12 GMT -5
Kraven is back? Kraven's Last Hunt was one of my favorite Spider-man stories. Damn. They'll bring anyone back. When pray tell did Aunt May become an actress?!?!? Edit: With all this ret-con stuff going on, you'd think they'd let Uncle Ben live for once. I'm actually surprised that they haven't brought Uncle Ben back to life and made him the new Spider-man, given what's happened with Bucky in Marvel and the things I've heard about the second Robin over in DC. difference is that Spider-man's origin hinges so much on Uncle Ben dying that it'll never be undone. while Bucky and Jason dying was certainly traumatic for Cap and Batman, it's not as if their entire crime fighting career was built around it the way Spidey does.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jul 27, 2010 21:57:42 GMT -5
I'm actually surprised that they haven't brought Uncle Ben back to life and made him the new Spider-man, given what's happened with Bucky in Marvel and the things I've heard about the second Robin over in DC. difference is that Spider-man's origin hinges so much on Uncle Ben dying that it'll never be undone. while Bucky and Jason dying was certainly traumatic for Cap and Batman, it's not as if their entire crime fighting career was built around it the way Spidey does. Once upon a time, I'd have said that Marvel would never have Spider-Man make a deal with the devil or reveal his identity to the public, either. Point is, given all of the stunts that Marvel has pulled in the past few years, especially ones which fly in the face of a character's history, it really wouldn't surprise me if they went even farther and completely destroyed the classic "Nobody stays dead in comics but...." phrase. Two are down, after all, with only Uncle Ben to go.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 28, 2010 7:50:36 GMT -5
Nope, Uncle Ben will never return.
He and Captain Marvel are the two big ones that Marvel will never undo.
Spidey's origins needs Uncle Ben, if Ben is alive, Spidey doesn't actually have much of a reason to be doing what he is other than pressure because he has the powers, rather than the ingrained guilt that he was too self absorbed to do anything and that back fired on him.
Ben will never be back.
Jason's return was the worst, Superboy Prime punches reality and Jason pops up alive again. Ridiculous.
Bucky's return made sense and it wasnt even really a retcon; a retcon requires that history be changed in the face of previous evidence, there was never evidence that Bucky was dead, it was just assumed. Brubacker brought him back in a semi-realistic way that worked and didn't really alter much in terms of the character of Captain America.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jul 28, 2010 8:30:07 GMT -5
You two have a lot more faith in Marvel than I do, apparently. I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that dead Uncle Ben is important to Spider-Man's mythos and needs to remain dead... but with Marvel being the way it's been for the past few years, I personally have little faith in them continuing to respect that.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 28, 2010 11:41:31 GMT -5
I dont understand what the issue is re. Marvel the past few years?
Other than Bucky, who really came back that crosses any lines in regards the usual comic book returns from death?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 28, 2010 11:46:18 GMT -5
Barry Allen, but that's just my opinion, and it isn't anywhere near as line-crossing as Uncle Ben would be.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 28, 2010 12:05:23 GMT -5
Just finished up this months Secret Avengers, and it was pretty great, but the teaser image for next month already has me frothing for issue number 4.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jul 28, 2010 12:22:22 GMT -5
I dont understand what the issue is re. Marvel the past few years? Other than Bucky, who really came back that crosses any lines in regards the usual comic book returns from death? It's not just comics bringing back characters like Bucky or Jason Todd. It's Marvel doing weird and stupid stuff with lots of its characters, from killing off and replacing icons who pre-date their company to turning General Ross into a friggin' Hulk. I mean, I get it. I'm in the minority in preferring pre-Avengers Disassembled Marvel to post-Avengers Disassembled Marvel. And it's all well and good if people love any or all of the changes that they've made over the past few years. More power to you if you do. But me? I'm not that big a fan of them, and with Marvel having already pulled some (in my opinion) outrageous stunts, I'm a little gun-shy about what they might pull out next... and rightfully so, I think. Yeah, bringing back Uncle Ben would be crossing a whole new line of bad ideas, but they're already stepped in that direction with a few other changes that they've made in recent years, so to me it really wouldn't be a surprise if some Spider-Man writer decided to pull out such a storyline in order to be "shocking and new". Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but that's just the way Marvel's made me feel with some of their creative decisions in recent years. It's like how some people have little or no faith in a company like Fox because of some creative decisions made for the comic book movies they've put out in recent years, only my problem is what's been done to the source material itself rather than adaptations of the source material.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 28, 2010 13:35:27 GMT -5
/\ I'm with you in the pre-Avengers Dissassembled camp. a mean-spirited story written by a guy whose obviosuly never read The Avengers before.
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darthalexander
Hank Scorpio
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Post by darthalexander on Jul 28, 2010 14:26:47 GMT -5
Jason Todd is BACK? "Punched back into life"? Yeesh.
Well, comics always did have some pretty damn stupid stories so this isn't anything new but still a shock. All that 1-800 nonsense for nothing (should he die, should he not die).
It is a no-no to mention this, but what the heck: I still say the Spider-Man thing (BND) was stupid.
The beauty of comics is that you just have to wait a bit and the relaunch will be tossed out eventually for the next relaunch.
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Post by knightrider01 on Jul 28, 2010 14:42:50 GMT -5
Nope, Uncle Ben will never return. Bucky's return made sense and it wasnt even really a retcon; a retcon requires that history be changed in the face of previous evidence, there was never evidence that Bucky was dead, it was just assumed. Brubacker brought him back in a semi-realistic way that worked and didn't really alter much in terms of the character of Captain America. Actually from things I have heard over the years is that in some instances Bucky was shown to be actually dead. They showed this by revealing that his spirit or soul was in heaven or something like that. A counter argument that you can make to that is obviously Winter Soldier wasn't actually Bucky but perhaps a shell of him. That if had all his training and skill but none of his emotions or morals, and it wasn't until Cap used the cosmic cube for him to remember that Bucky soul was perhaps pulled from the afterlife and placed into his former body.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 28, 2010 16:02:41 GMT -5
I dont understand what the issue is re. Marvel the past few years? Other than Bucky, who really came back that crosses any lines in regards the usual comic book returns from death? It's not just comics bringing back characters like Bucky or Jason Todd. It's Marvel doing weird and stupid stuff with lots of its characters, from killing off and replacing icons who pre-date their company to turning General Ross into a friggin' Hulk. I mean, I get it. I'm in the minority in preferring pre-Avengers Disassembled Marvel to post-Avengers Disassembled Marvel. And it's all well and good if people love any or all of the changes that they've made over the past few years. More power to you if you do. But me? I'm not that big a fan of them, and with Marvel having already pulled some (in my opinion) outrageous stunts, I'm a little gun-shy about what they might pull out next... and rightfully so, I think. Yeah, bringing back Uncle Ben would be crossing a whole new line of bad ideas, but they're already stepped in that direction with a few other changes that they've made in recent years, so to me it really wouldn't be a surprise if some Spider-Man writer decided to pull out such a storyline in order to be "shocking and new". Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but that's just the way Marvel's made me feel with some of their creative decisions in recent years. It's like how some people have little or no faith in a company like Fox because of some creative decisions made for the comic book movies they've put out in recent years, only my problem is what's been done to the source material itself rather than adaptations of the source material. I guess I just dont really see anything outside BuckyCap and Steve Rogers and whatever mess Loeb made over in Hulk that Marvel have really done much that they haven't done with characters and stuff before. People tend to say that Civil War changed characters and stuff, and yet, really, if you really look back at the characters who came across as gits like Tony and Reed, they kinda always have been super arrogant and hate admitting they were wrong. Bendis threw it up a bit more, but it wasnt really a huge change in the characterisation. On the other hand, I do dislike the new Avengers teams and certainly miss the better 'b-team but important' feel of some of the past, but things have to change and develop, else you get stagnation or people complaining you cant move on (like DC trying to go back to the Silver Age in some respects).
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 28, 2010 16:07:58 GMT -5
Nope, Uncle Ben will never return. Bucky's return made sense and it wasnt even really a retcon; a retcon requires that history be changed in the face of previous evidence, there was never evidence that Bucky was dead, it was just assumed. Brubacker brought him back in a semi-realistic way that worked and didn't really alter much in terms of the character of Captain America. Actually from things I have heard over the years is that in some instances Bucky was shown to be actually dead. They showed this by revealing that his spirit or soul was in heaven or something like that. A counter argument that you can make to that is obviously Winter Soldier wasn't actually Bucky but perhaps a shell of him. That if had all his training and skill but none of his emotions or morals, and it wasn't until Cap used the cosmic cube for him to remember that Bucky soul was perhaps pulled from the afterlife and placed into his former body. I think that can easily be explained in terms of what you expect from heaven and what your idea of 'heaven' is. For example, the Marvel universe has a land of the dead ruled by death, where Captain Marvel's spirit is, and yet they also have a heaven in some stories - are they the same? Is it all to do with perspective? Why would Mar-vell get land of the dead and Bucky get Christian heaven? Not to mention the whole Hel and Hades Underworld and stuff like that. It's also not a particualrly important story or moment when the spirit is seen, and tends to be the more anal people who bring it up (not saying that you are remotely, you are perfectly right in correcting that they have shown he could be dead).
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 28, 2010 16:11:32 GMT -5
/\ I'm with you in the pre-Avengers Dissassembled camp. a mean-spirited story written by a guy whose obviosuly never read The Avengers before. I dislike this argument as well. How had he never? The idea that Wanda would go mad and even hurt her friends becaose of her kids is a DIRECT follow on from Byrne's and the Thomas' Darker than Scarlet from West Coast Avengers. In that the loss of her kids sends her mental and evil and back to Magneto as well, exactly what happens to her in Dissassembled in some ways, but with a massive power increase.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 28, 2010 17:36:27 GMT -5
it was character derailment. Wanda had already dealt with her kids not being real a very long time ago. Bendis just threw it out the window because he thought "well I have a better story" that was just a thinly veiled excuse to turn Wanda into a mass murdering psycho so he could kill off all the Avengers he didn't like (e.g. Ant-man) and render Wanda radioactive for future writers. he increased her powers to godlike levels with no explanation just so the events of the story could happen how he wanted them to, rather than how they would if he bothered to explain anything. and on top of that he had Dr. Strange make that asinine comment about how there is no Chaos Magic when he himself has used it before.besides that, being upset about your kids is hardly the kind of thing that makes someone whose previously been shown to be a stable human fly off the handle and murder their friends (and HUSBAND!). the story also loses points for turning Wasp into an airheaded bitch and making more tasteless wifebeater jokes at the expense of Hank Pym (seriously, read the interivew Bendis did after it was finished, he went on a tirade about how horrible Hank Pym is for hitting his wife once). House of M just made the whole mess worse by turning Wanda's powers up even higher just because Bendis couldn't come up with a real plot progression and had to turn her into a deus ex machina AGAIN for the second time in less than 2 years. the whole "should we kill Wanda?" thing was made even dumber by Joss Wheddon writing a story in Astonishing X-men about mutant power negating collars AT THE SAME TIME!
it's like the Superboy-Prime reality punch, its just turning a pre-existing character into a deus ex machina because you don't want to have to put any effort into telling a good story, and not even caring what that does to the character in question. his subsequent run on Avengers largely sucking balls didn't help.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 28, 2010 18:13:53 GMT -5
it was character derailment. Wanda had already dealt with her kids not being real a very long time ago. Bendis just threw it out the window because he thought "well I have a better story" that was just a thinly veiled excuse to turn Wanda into a mass murdering psycho so he could kill off all the Avengers he didn't like (e.g. Ant-man) and render Wanda radioactive for future writers. he increased her powers to godlike levels with no explanation just so the events of the story could happen how he wanted them to, rather than how they would if he bothered to explain anything. and on top of that he had Dr. Strange make that asinine comment about how there is no Chaos Magic when he himself has used it before.besides that, being upset about your kids is hardly the kind of thing that makes someone whose previously been shown to be a stable human fly off the handle and murder their friends (and HUSBAND!). the story also loses points for turning Wasp into an airheaded bitch and making more tasteless wifebeater jokes at the expense of Hank Pym (seriously, read the interivew Bendis did after it was finished, he went on a tirade about how horrible Hank Pym is for hitting his wife once). House of M just made the whole mess worse by turning Wanda's powers up even higher just because Bendis couldn't come up with a real plot progression and had to turn her into a deus ex machina AGAIN for the second time in less than 2 years. the whole "should we kill Wanda?" thing was made even dumber by Joss Wheddon writing a story in Astonishing X-men about mutant power negating collars AT THE SAME TIME! it's like the Superboy-Prime reality punch, its just turning a pre-existing character into a deus ex machina because you don't want to have to put any effort into telling a good story, and not even caring what that does to the character in question. his subsequent run on Avengers largely sucking balls didn't help. Well, the last point is just bad editing, and with Whedon, it might have taken him ten years to write the issue talking about it. Either way, it was a continuation in my book. She had the kids taken away via memory wipe, the memory came back, she realised everyone, all her friends, her robot husband and even the woman she likely looked at like a mother (Agatha) had been lying to her for years and even blocked out her memories so that she couldn't grieve properly. To me, that is more than enough reason to go mental, especially if your powers are actually more powerful than anyone ever thought and you were doing things a bit subconsciously (admited, the fact her powers are just amped up for the sake of it is a bit irksome, but let's face it, characters get that sort of thing all the time, up or down). House of M was a bit of a train wreck, but it set up Son of M and Silent War, which were brilliant stories even if they did show that Quicksilver was also mental. I guess it comes down to taste. I thought it was a decent story that made a crappy character interesting for the first time in years and eventually gives us whatever is going to happen in Children's Crusade. Other saw it as character rape. I will, however, agree that Bendis hates Pym and that really shows and is really annoying.
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Post by anticonscience on Jul 28, 2010 19:58:27 GMT -5
*has only read a couple of my books for the week so far*
Jason Aaron's current Bullseye arc in Punishermax is all kinds of f'ed up but absolutely incredible.
And I did NOT see that twist ending for Kevin Smith's Batman: The Widening Gyre coming AT ALL!!!
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