Should you be tried where you commit the crime?

[Nr1Humanoid]

Or should those you commit crimes in foreign countries be sent home to face their own nations laws?

One of my countrymen is charged with molestation in Africa right now. I say let them deal with him.

If starting this thread idea crosses any lines I apologise.

[Alex Shelley]

I'll have to think about this one for a bit, but my first thought is that it would depend under what pretenses you're in the other country.

[Nr1Humanoid]

Jan 9, 2011 8:02:37 GMT -5 Alex Shelley said:

I'll have to think about this one for a bit, but my first thought is that it would depend under what pretenses you're in the other country.

In the case I mentioned the man was a tourist in Gambia when he committed his sexcrimes.

And to give you a taste of our own justicesystem, the man was tried and convicted here some years back for molesting (incl. rape) of his son 100 times. He got one year.

[Fiddleford H. McGucket]

Logically.....since laws, jurisdictions, and various by-laws vary not only from Country to Country, but region to region in some areas....they SHOULD ONLY be tried in the country that they're wanted in.

The issue with your countryman is probably an extradition conflict.

[Nr1Humanoid]

Jan 9, 2011 8:36:23 GMT -5 Fiddleford H. McGucket said:

Logically.....since laws, jurisdictions, and various by-laws vary not only from Country to Country, but region to region in some areas....they SHOULD ONLY be tried in the country that they're wanted in.

The issue with your countryman is probably an extradition conflict.

He refused extradition (Weird, considering the low punishment he got here before.) Until he got a taste of what Gambian prisons was like and changed his mind and suddenly wanted it.

[Ian Austin]

Yes.

The "they have human rights" defence is hard to justify when people leave a country and then abuse their right to live in another country by committing crime.

[Cyno]

If you commit a crime in another country, you're subject to that country's laws. The State Department of the person's home country will likely do everything they can to get the person extradited to their home country, but that's a diplomatic matter, not a legal one.

[h]

You should be tried in the country where you commit the crime. You should be sentenced according to the laws of the country in which you commit the crime.

Your own national government should almost never interfere with the legal process (eg. Michael Fay in Singapore). I acknowledge that I don't have a lot of trust in the legal system in some countries, whether it be laws that I don't agree with, justice sysytems that seem corrupt, sentences that I think are too severe, etc. My response is simple, though--I won't visit those countries.

That isn't to say that I don't have sympathy for people like Mohamed Kohail in cases where there does not appear to be a fair trial.

[Jay Peas 42]

Tehnically, the State Department will work to make sure you get a fair trial, and obtain representation. But, they are not get you off scot free. You are under obligation as a guest in the country to not to break their laws.

[The Booty Disciple]

Jan 9, 2011 14:52:17 GMT -5 Jay Peas 42 said:

Tehnically, the State Department will work to make sure you get a fair trial, and obtain representation. But, they are not get you off scot free. You are under obligation as a guest in the country to not to break their laws.

Well put. The State Department represents people of their state, but it does not defend them, at least in a perfect world.

[worldsstrongestman]

Airlines should show Locked up Abroad to all passengers on flights to foreign countries. That should keep them from breaking laws in other countries.

[Michael Coello]

When I read "tried where you commit it", I thought you meant right after the act has occurred, like Judge Dredd street judges style.

Anyway, I think it's where you committed it originally.

[noleafclover1980]

Jan 9, 2011 11:04:33 GMT -5 h said:

You should be tried in the country where you commit the crime. You should be sentenced according to the laws of the country in which you commit the crime.

Your own national government should almost never interfere with the legal process (eg. Michael Fay in Singapore). I acknowledge that I don't have a lot of trust in the legal system in some countries, whether it be laws that I don't agree with, justice sysytems that seem corrupt, sentences that I think are too severe, etc. My response is simple, though--I won't visit those countries.

That isn't to say that I don't have sympathy for people like Mohamed Kohail in cases where there does not appear to be a fair trial.

God, I remember that one. People were so up in arms over the punishment, they forgot that MAYBE he shouldn't have been a stupid douche bag and and vandalized cars in a foreign country if he didn't want to get his ass whipped. If you don't want to be subjected to "barbaric" punishments in another country, a good rule of thumb is to not break the law when you're there.

[Andrew is Good]

I think it depends. What if it's a situation where that country has an unjust law, or something that's illegal.

Haha, I hope this doesn't get this thread locked. Ok. Two gay guys go to a country where if you have sex, you get killed (maybe they don't know this, this is a hypothetical). Should we say, well, they broke the law in that country, therefore they should be murdered. Or should they be sent back to where they came from, and no charges laid against them. There are other charges that I could mention but I know for certain they will cross the line of the rules.

I also do realize that ignorance of the law is not a defense, but, this is a situation where they really did nothing wrong, but did something wrong in the minds of a bunch of barbarians.

[Deleted]

Jan 9, 2011 17:39:11 GMT -5 Andrew is Good said:

I think it depends. What if it's a situation where that country has an unjust law, or something that's illegal.

Haha, I hope this doesn't get this thread locked. Ok. Two gay guys go to a country where if you have sex, you get killed (maybe they don't know this, this is a hypothetical). Should we say, well, they broke the law in that country, therefore they should be murdered. Or should they be sent back to where they came from, and no charges laid against them. There are other charges that I could mention but I know for certain they will cross the line of the rules.

I also do realize that ignorance of the law is not a defense, but, this is a situation where they really did nothing wrong, but did something wrong in the minds of a bunch of barbarians.

Yeah I think stuff like that is where the problems arise. Obviously, something like vandalism (mentioned earlier), murder, assault, etc. is a crime no matter where you go.

[Jay Peas 42]

In Re: Sodomy Laws: The US State Department does issue travel advisories, the one for Saudi Arabia does state that they will execute for sodomy. You were warned. The State Department would likely intercede, and depending on the circumstances, would try to get you deported. However, the Saudis would be free to ignore that. The thing is, every state is sovereign, and what you call barbarism, they call their way of life.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 9, 2011 14:54:33 GMT -5 The Booty Disciple said:

Jan 9, 2011 14:52:17 GMT -5 Jay Peas 42 said:

Tehnically, the State Department will work to make sure you get a fair trial, and obtain representation. But, they are not get you off scot free. You are under obligation as a guest in the country to not to break their laws.

Well put. The State Department represents people of their state, but it does not defend them, at least in a perfect world.

No kidding. One time, I made a prank call to Australia. Anyway, I had to go down there and face their legal system. The State Department led me to believe they had talked them out of kicking me in the ass with a giant boot and they'd accept just an apology.

This was a damn dirty lie.

[FrankGotch]

Jan 9, 2011 21:32:04 GMT -5 Jay Peas 42 said:

The thing is, every state is sovereign, and what you call barbarism, they call their way of life.

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

[FinalGwen]

Something that really interests me when it comes to this subject: What about crime done over the internet? For example, the guy who hacked into the Pentagon's network, should he be tried in the USA, which was the recipient of the hacking? Or in the UK, where he did the actual hacking? Quite a fascinating one.

[Dave at the Movies]

Jan 10, 2011 7:14:48 GMT -5 FinalGwen said:

Something that really interests me when it comes to this subject: What about crime done over the internet? For example, the guy who hacked into the Pentagon's network, should he be tried in the USA, which was the recipient of the hacking? Or in the UK, where he did the actual hacking? Quite a fascinating one.

Well first off I just want to say that I don't think any government as violent and coercive as they all are have any right to pass judgment on a sovereign individual but I won't get into that since it would break rules.

That is interesting though when it comes to the internet. There are very few crimes that you can actually committ on the internet. I don't feel sorry at all for the Pentagon hacking but if someone hacks someone else's computer then they are infringing on that person's rights.

Just to clarify I don't feel sorry for any Pentagon hacking because the US government has done far worse things including hacking, sometimes even alleged citizens of the U.S.