NBA Thread XXIX: Bash At The South Beach

[Unocal 76]

This is the best NBA Finals I've seen since 1993 (1994 and2005 went seven games, but they were hard to watch. Last year's Finals were sloppy and I can't stand the Lakers and Celtics).

[Batman]

The Nowitzki-Bird comparisons are comical. Dirk is a fantastic player, and is obviously climbing the list of all-time greats. Winning this title would certainly bolster him.

HOWEVER, Larry Bird was a friggin' point-forward. He averaged over 6.5 assists per game SEVEN seasons. His career low (in his rookie year) was 4.5 assists per game. For his career, Dirk is averaging 2.7 assists per game, with a high of only 3.5 per game.

I'm a die-hard Laker fan, but even I couldn't compare Dirk's all-around game with Bird's in good conscience. I love Dirk, though, and I really hope he gets this thing done.

[riseofsetian1981]

Jun 10, 2011 13:11:22 GMT -5 S-Chrome said:

Jun 10, 2011 1:28:04 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

Let's be honest. If Miami wins the series, do you think Wade would get the MVP honors? Of course not. It would go to Lebron and they'd paint him as the next MJ, Magic Johnson, or Isiah Thomas. But God forbid anyone says Dirk is similar to Bird.

Yeah, despite Wade outperforming LeBron in every game thus far, LeBron getting the MVP would fit right into this carefully-crafted anti-Maverick conspiracy that you've spearheaded. Well done.

I don't want to bring up rings or something like that, but Bird was twice the player that Dirk is. Bird would've got these hapless Mavericks at least a couple of championship rings by now.

Dirk is the closest thing to Bird that anyone will see in this lifetime.

True, if Bird was playing on Dallas he wouldn't have let the team choke away a 2-0 lead. But Dirk has proven time and time again that he isn't soft, he is clutch, and people such as yourself are hating that he's constantly proving you wrong.

For Miami fans you better hope and pray he doesn't go off for 60 on Sunday.

[riseofsetian1981]

Jun 10, 2011 16:29:53 GMT -5 Batman said:

The Nowitzki-Bird comparisons are comical. Dirk is a fantastic player, and is obviously climbing the list of all-time greats. Winning this title would certainly bolster him.

HOWEVER, Larry Bird was a friggin' point-forward. He averaged over 6.5 assists per game SEVEN seasons. His career low (in his rookie year) was 4.5 assists per game. For his career, Dirk is averaging 2.7 assists per game, with a high of only 3.5 per game.

I'm a die-hard Laker fan, but even I couldn't compare Dirk's all-around game with Bird's in good conscience. I love Dirk, though, and I really hope he gets this thing done.

Dirk has had to do more than Bird. Bird had the likes of McHale, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton, Robert Parish, Danny Ainge, and many others that allowed him to get those assists. I think Dirk would average more of the same under those same circumstances.

But his position is to score, rebound, and if necessary make those assists or block shots. I know most people don't like the comparison, however, I fully believe Dirk is the closest thing to Bird in this lifetime. It's amusing that so many fans and sports analysts compare Lebron to Jordan, Kobe to Jordan, or Vince Carter to Dr. J and no one bats an eye. The minute someone compares Dirk to Bird then it's a sin.

Got to love fan hypocrisy.

[Red Impact]

That's not fan hypocrisy, that's fans not agreeing with the comparison.

[riseofsetian1981]

Jun 10, 2011 17:48:02 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

That's not fan hypocrisy, that's fans not agreeing with the comparison.

But then you'll agree with Jordan/Lebron or Kobe/Jordan comparisons in a heartbeat. I've seen it again and again. A fan or a sports figure says oh so and so is like Jordan, so and so is like Magic, or so and so is like Pistol Pete. You won't disagree with them, but the minute someone mentions Dallas oh then it's a problem.

As I said, fan hypocrisy at its purest.

[Red Impact]

Just because people agree with one comparison doesn't mean they have to agree with all comparisons. That's a stupid argument to make.

[MGH]

Dude, so now if we agree with one comparison about something we must then agree with every comparison made by anyone in that given subject? I'll pass, thanks.

[riseofsetian1981]

Jun 10, 2011 17:54:42 GMT -5 MGH said:

Dude, so now if we agree with one comparison about something we must then agree with every comparison made by anyone in that given subject? I'll pass, thanks.

When Wade had that explosive 2006 playoff run against Dallas everyone was comparing him to Jordan. No one said a word and in fact fans, media personalities, and sports figures agreed with it.

But the minute someone compares Dirk to Bird then it's a problem and I find it more amusing than sad.

[riseofsetian1981]

I guarantee that if Wade or Lebron have an explosive comeback and win the series the majority of you would compare them to Jordan.

[MGH]

Jun 10, 2011 17:57:59 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

Jun 10, 2011 17:54:42 GMT -5 MGH said:

Dude, so now if we agree with one comparison about something we must then agree with every comparison made by anyone in that given subject? I'll pass, thanks.

When Wade had that explosive 2006 playoff run against Dallas everyone was comparing him to Jordan. No one said a word and in fact fans, media personalities, and sports figures agreed with it.

But the minute someone compares Dirk to Bird then it's a problem and I find it more amusing than sad.

...so yes, you're saying that if someone says, "you know what? Nate Robinson is just like Isiah Thomas. Yep." that I have to agree with them since I think ______ is comparable to ________, and every one knows that agreeing with one comparison means that the rest all must be valid too!

Why I keep letting myself get baited by you in this thread I have no idea.

[MGH]

Jun 10, 2011 17:58:38 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

I guarantee that if Wade or Lebron have an explosive comeback and win the series the majority of you would compare them to Jordan.

Actually no, I wouldn't. But thanks for playing.

[Red Impact]

Jun 10, 2011 17:58:38 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

I guarantee that if Wade or Lebron have an explosive comeback and win the series the majority of you would compare them to Jordan.

No I wouldn't. I didn't even like the Kobe = Michael Jordan comparisons when they were going around. But I guarantee you that no matter what anyone did, you'd twist it into being an imagined slight against your team.

Jun 10, 2011 17:57:59 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

Jun 10, 2011 17:54:42 GMT -5 MGH said:

Dude, so now if we agree with one comparison about something we must then agree with every comparison made by anyone in that given subject? I'll pass, thanks.

When Wade had that explosive 2006 playoff run against Dallas everyone was comparing him to Jordan. No one said a word and in fact fans, media personalities, and sports figures agreed with it.

But the minute someone compares Dirk to Bird then it's a problem and I find it more amusing than sad.

And I find it more pathetic that you can't scrape together a reasonable argument about it, instead resorting to "if you don't agree with me, you're a hypocrit!"

[Insomniac]

Jun 10, 2011 18:09:39 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

And I find it more pathetic that you can't scrape together a reasonable argument about it, instead resorting to "if you don't agree with me, you're a hypocrit!"

IT'S THE ONLY ARGUMENT HE NEEDS, HAWK!!!

[riseofsetian1981]

Jun 10, 2011 18:09:39 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jun 10, 2011 17:58:38 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

I guarantee that if Wade or Lebron have an explosive comeback and win the series the majority of you would compare them to Jordan.

No I wouldn't. I didn't even like the Kobe = Michael Jordan comparisons when they were going around. But I guarantee you that no matter what anyone did, you'd twist it into being an imagined slight against your team.



When Wade had that explosive 2006 playoff run against Dallas everyone was comparing him to Jordan. No one said a word and in fact fans, media personalities, and sports figures agreed with it.

But the minute someone compares Dirk to Bird then it's a problem and I find it more amusing than sad.

And I find it more pathetic that you can't scrape together a reasonable argument about it, instead resorting to "if you don't agree with me, you're a hypocrit!" [/quote]

What reasonable argument do you need really? I've seen it many times with a lot of fans. The minute someone they don't like is compared to say Larry Bird then it's a problem. But I've seen lots of posts on here and others where it's comparing Kobe to Jordan, Lebron to Jordan, and etc.

No one says anything about it because for some odd reason it's okay to compare Kobe or Lebron to them. However, someone says Dirk is similar to Bird or he's playing at a level like Bird then it's problem. I just find it sad with the amount of hate that Dirk receives on here.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

[Red Impact]

Jun 10, 2011 18:32:40 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

What reasonable argument do you need really? I've seen it many times with a lot of fans. The minute someone they don't like is compared to say Larry Bird then it's a problem. But I've seen lots of posts on here and others where it's comparing Kobe to Jordan, Lebron to Jordan, and etc.

No one says anything about it because for some odd reason it's okay to compare Kobe or Lebron to them. However, someone says Dirk is similar to Bird or he's playing at a level like Bird then it's problem. I just find it sad with the amount of hate that Dirk receives on here.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

How about something that actually addresses the point? Something that actually defends the comparison of him to Larry Bird.

Instead, you're saying "If you think Kobe is comparable to Jordan, then you're a hypocrite if you don't think Dirk is comparable to Bird!" The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Maybe we just don't think Dirk Nowitski is as good as Larry Bird is? But no, that can't be it, it's conspiracy and hypocrisy and all sorts of bullcrap because you can't actually support or address an argument, just insult the people making it.

And for the record, Dirk is great. He's a damn good player, easily one of the best international players ever to come into the league. Go back and you can see us say that exact thing. So don't pull out weak s*** like "oh you just don't like Dirk"

[The Captain]

Jun 10, 2011 18:32:40 GMT -5 riseofsetian1981 said:

What reasonable argument do you need really? I've seen it many times with a lot of fans. The minute someone they don't like is compared to say Larry Bird then it's a problem. But I've seen lots of posts on here and others where it's comparing Kobe to Jordan, Lebron to Jordan, and etc.

No one says anything about it because for some odd reason it's okay to compare Kobe or Lebron to them. However, someone says Dirk is similar to Bird or he's playing at a level like Bird then it's problem. I just find it sad with the amount of hate that Dirk receives on here.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

Well you're wrong because that isn't hypocrisy. It's like, not even close to the realm of hypocrisy. Like Inigo Montoya once said "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

I'm trying to think of a situation where hypocrisy would apply and I just can't.

And FYI, I'd never compare LeBron to Jordan in terms of LeBron being better. Two completely different types of players. The only thing they have in common is an assload of talent. I do think Bird and Dirk have more in common than LeBron and Jordan, but Bird's definitely the better player. I think LeBron has the potential to be better than Jordan. But with his playstyle and mental fortitude in clutch situations, Jordan is way better. LeBron chokes while Jordan was absolutely killer in those situations.

EDIT: Just thought of an example of actual hypocrisy for this subject. Someone saying "You can't compare Dirk to Bird because you can't ever compare the players of today to the greats of the past." And then that person going on to compare LeBron to Jordan in a pleasing manner to LeBron. THAT is hypocrisy because you're making a general statement and then completely contradicting yourself immediately after.

[Deleted]

Check this out. Baseball-reference.coms sister site, Basketball-reference.com, has a Elo Player Rater: www.basketball-reference.com/friv/elo.cgi

[Seth Drakin of Monster Crap]

Well, Im glad karma came calling because before Game 5, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade made fun of Dirk's illness in Game 4.

DALLAS -- Dirk Nowitzki's sinus infection and the ensuing storyline apparently was a source of amusement for Miami Heat superstars Dwyane Wade and LeBron James before Game 5.

As they walked out of American Airlines Center after Thursday morning's shootaround, Wade and James pretended to cough and wheeze, smirking as they repeatedly covered their mouths with their shirts while being filmed by Miami CBS affiliate WFOR.

"Whoa, did y'all hear me cough? I think I'm sick," Wade said before turning toward James and chuckling.

This came two days after Nowitzki scored 21 points, including a critical driving layup in the last minute, while playing with a 101-degree fever during the Dallas Mavericks' NBA Finals-tying Game 4 win.

Wade had already made it clear that he believed the story of Nowitzki playing through illness and injury -- the Mavericks' superstar tore the tendon in his left middle finger in the series opener -- had been overblown.

"I have respect for him as a great player. I'm not going to get into the injuries," Wade said Wednesday. "Everyone is injured at this time. I'm not going to get into the fun-loving story of him being sick, either. Once you show up on the court, you show up on the court. Everyone is equal.

"He's a great player without all the dramatics of the stories that's been going on."

Wade, who once had a shoe commercial that glorified his toughness, is dealing with his own injury now. He suffered a bruised left hip during a first-quarter collision with Dallas reserve forward Brian Cardinal during Miami's Game 5 loss Thursday night, causing him to miss two extended stretches of the game.

"I don't talk about injuries," Wade said after Game 5. "It's unfortunate that I had to leave the game, but I came back and I finished it. ... Once you're on the court, you're on the court. I don't have no excuses."

Nowitzki still had a slight cough Thursday night, but his fever was down and he felt fine while scoring 29 points to help the Mavs take a 3-2 series lead.

"He may not be 100 percent," coach Rick Carlisle said, "but he seemed to be OK."

[rrm15]

Jun 10, 2011 21:54:55 GMT -5 Seth Drakin of Monster Crap said:

Well, Im glad karma came calling because before Game 5, Lebron James and Dwayne Wade made fun of Dirk's illness in Game 4.

DALLAS -- Dirk Nowitzki's sinus infection and the ensuing storyline apparently was a source of amusement for Miami Heat superstars Dwyane Wade and LeBron James before Game 5.

As they walked out of American Airlines Center after Thursday morning's shootaround, Wade and James pretended to cough and wheeze, smirking as they repeatedly covered their mouths with their shirts while being filmed by Miami CBS affiliate WFOR.

"Whoa, did y'all hear me cough? I think I'm sick," Wade said before turning toward James and chuckling.

This came two days after Nowitzki scored 21 points, including a critical driving layup in the last minute, while playing with a 101-degree fever during the Dallas Mavericks' NBA Finals-tying Game 4 win.

Wade had already made it clear that he believed the story of Nowitzki playing through illness and injury -- the Mavericks' superstar tore the tendon in his left middle finger in the series opener -- had been overblown.

"I have respect for him as a great player. I'm not going to get into the injuries," Wade said Wednesday. "Everyone is injured at this time. I'm not going to get into the fun-loving story of him being sick, either. Once you show up on the court, you show up on the court. Everyone is equal.

"He's a great player without all the dramatics of the stories that's been going on."

Wade, who once had a shoe commercial that glorified his toughness, is dealing with his own injury now. He suffered a bruised left hip during a first-quarter collision with Dallas reserve forward Brian Cardinal during Miami's Game 5 loss Thursday night, causing him to miss two extended stretches of the game.

"I don't talk about injuries," Wade said after Game 5. "It's unfortunate that I had to leave the game, but I came back and I finished it. ... Once you're on the court, you're on the court. I don't have no excuses."

Nowitzki still had a slight cough Thursday night, but his fever was down and he felt fine while scoring 29 points to help the Mavs take a 3-2 series lead.

"He may not be 100 percent," coach Rick Carlisle said, "but he seemed to be OK."

Serves those assholes right.