Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 21, 2011 19:31:53 GMT -5
Again, you do realise people are hating on the character and not the man? You do get that? Except they're not. They're calling out Rey the person for exploiting Eddie's death, exploiting his children, and basically secretly being mini-Triple H. He did exploit Eddie Guerrero, and he does exploit his children. He also failed a wellness test and then threw a public temper tantrum when he was punished for it. He also threw a fit when WWE wouldn't let him wrestle for another promotion, despite the fact that it's part of every WWE contract that you can't do that. Then you have his reported refusal to put Dolph Ziggler over in 2009. The fact of the matter is, all signs point to the guy being a jackass.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,623
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 21, 2011 19:34:17 GMT -5
I don't agree with this at all, sorry. Yes he's one of the highest merchandise sellers but that doesn't mean that just because he's booked to not win every single time that his masks and t-shirts would suddenly stop selling. Kids buy his gear because they like him, anyway. Nobody is asking him to go on a jobbing spree (well, maybe his really eccentric haters), just...he doesn't need to win ALL the time. Side story: I was allowed inside what at the time was the Providence Civic Center while they were setting up for the 94 Royal Rumble. (Long story short, the weather was bad and the officials took pity on us poor souls as long as we agreed to stay out of everybody's way.) One of the things we got to witness was setting up the merchandise stands, and a brief meeting between WWE officials (or bookers, or whoever they were) and the vendors. The vendors were told the order of the matches and who was going to win. Basically, it was comments like "Next, Razor is gonna win against IRS, so make sure you have more merch out at the end of that match." Do I know how much wins and losses affect sales? Of course not. I have absolutely no idea how much merchandise moves on a night where Rey wins vs. a night where he loses. But it apparently is significant enough for them to take it under consideration, and Rey's booking is likely done in such a way as to minimize the impact of lost sales on nights where he loses. As for the "He doesn't need to win all the time" bit....why hate Rey for that? That's something to blame WWE creative for. That's definitely interesting, although there have still been some top merch sellers that lost often (The Rock, Mankind, Jeff Hardy). Still, that's an interesting story. And I don't hate Rey personally, but he's the one people see on their screen so that's who recieves the blunt of it I guess. Just how it works.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 21, 2011 19:34:30 GMT -5
Again, you do realise people are hating on the character and not the man? You do get that? Except they're not. They're calling out Rey the person for exploiting Eddie's death, exploiting his children, and basically secretly being mini-Triple H. Where does it say that in this thread?
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 19:35:44 GMT -5
Except they're not. They're calling out Rey the person for exploiting Eddie's death, exploiting his children, and basically secretly being mini-Triple H. Where does it say that in this thread? About two posts up from yours.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 19:39:07 GMT -5
Rey has always been and always will be one of my favorites. The dude is a live action superhero.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 21, 2011 19:39:35 GMT -5
Where does it say that in this thread? About two posts up from yours. I meant before you brought it up.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 19:45:05 GMT -5
That's definitely interesting, although there have still been some top merch sellers that lost often (The Rock, Mankind, Jeff Hardy). Still, that's an interesting story. Don't forget...1994 was a downtime for the WWF, so they likely had to maximize every dollar they could. Money made or lost from merchandise sales was probably very crucial back then. During the attitude era, WWF had a virtual license to print money, and they were making tons from numerous sources. Losing some money from merchandise sales when they were making so much of it was likely not as crucial, allowing them to be more flexible with booking decisions. We're back to not being in the Attitude era any more, and the target audience is now children. Kids don't pay to see their heroes lose. Kids are less likely to buy merchandise from someone who they just saw lose. And money from merchandise sales is probably more important to the WWE now than it was during the Rock's tenure. Again, I obviously don't have the figures. But maybe the fluctuations of merchandise sales on the nights he wins vs. the nights he loses is more significant than normal, making them even more cautious with his booking. This is, of course, my own speculation.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 19:46:13 GMT -5
About two posts up from yours. I meant before you brought it up. In this thread? Nowhere else. In just about every other Rey hate thread? It's all over the place.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 21, 2011 19:57:10 GMT -5
I meant before you brought it up. In this thread? Nowhere else. In just about every other Rey hate thread? It's all over the place. Well seems a bit unfair to tar every "Rey hater" with the same brush, no?
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Mar 21, 2011 19:58:01 GMT -5
I think its a number of things: 1- Always called the "ultimate underdog" when he has a historyof overcoming the odds - that probably annoys some people. 2- He's pretty much done everything in the WWE there is to do, so him going over younger talent and very rarely losing feuds rub people the wrong way. 3- Rey dropping the IC belt to Morrison instead of Ziggler when Ziggles was in a feud with him, and the rumors that floated around of him not wanting to drop the belt to Dolph. 4- People have watched him since his time in ECW/WCW, so they've pretty much seen everything that Rey can do and he's become stale in their eyes.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 20:01:50 GMT -5
In this thread? Nowhere else. In just about every other Rey hate thread? It's all over the place. Well seems a bit unfair to tar every "Rey hater" with the same brush, no? You're the one who claimed that they were hating the character and not the person. I was just pointing out that it was untrue; hating Rey the person for things that are largely completely out of his control is quite commonplace in the Rey hate threads.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 21, 2011 20:05:47 GMT -5
Well seems a bit unfair to tar every "Rey hater" with the same brush, no? You're the one who claimed that they were hating the character and not the person. I was just pointing out that it was untrue; hating Rey the person for things that are largely completely out of his control is quite commonplace in the Rey hate threads. Um, hating Rey for things beyond his control was a major part of your rant.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 20:08:27 GMT -5
You're the one who claimed that they were hating the character and not the person. I was just pointing out that it was untrue; hating Rey the person for things that are largely completely out of his control is quite commonplace in the Rey hate threads. Um, hating Rey for things beyond his control was a major part of your rant. No, hating people for hating rey for things beyond his control was a major part of my rant. You said that nobody did that. You were wrong.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 21, 2011 20:19:23 GMT -5
Um, hating Rey for things beyond his control was a major part of your rant. No, hating people for hating rey for things beyond his control was a major part of my rant. You said that nobody did that. You were wrong. No I didn't. Where does it say that in this thread?You starting going off on people for something that up until that point wasn't happening. You get me?
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 20:24:23 GMT -5
No, hating people for hating rey for things beyond his control was a major part of my rant. You said that nobody did that. You were wrong. No I didn't. Yes, you did: Again, you do realise people are hating on the character and not the man? You do get that? You starting going off on people for something that up until that point wasn't happening. You get me? No, I started going off on people for something that has happened in every single Rey Hate thread to date. You get me?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:25:37 GMT -5
His character is boring. He's not an underdog, and he's certainly not the ultimate underdog. I think you lose the right to be called that once you've been champion.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 21, 2011 20:31:13 GMT -5
I was refering you back to this. 3. Who personally blames Rey here? Or do people have to qualify that they are criticising the character and not the person? You starting going off on people for something that up until that point wasn't happening. You get me? No, I started going off on people for something that has happened in every single Rey Hate thread to date. You get me? Which people? Give me names.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Mar 21, 2011 20:42:14 GMT -5
I have to laugh.
A significant number of people (on this thread and similar ones that pop up on a pretty regular basis) say Rey winning is unrealistic, that he's too small to beat bigger guys,.
A significant number also say he shouldn't be booked as an underdog.
If he's too small to realistically beat people, and he somehow wins anyway, isn't that being an underdog?
The definition of underdog is not simply "loser." It's most commonly used in sports lingo in describing someone's, or some team's, chances BEFORE a contest. It's someone who is EXPECTED to lose. And if by size alone Rey doesn't look like he should be able to beat his opponent, that would make him an underdog regardless of his "ring record."
You can't have it both ways.
It's funny people resent Rey being booked as "the Ultimate Underdog," but no one points out that "the Ultimate Opportunist" doesn't take advantage of the majority of his opportunities. As a matter of fact, a look at the length and quality of Edge's title reigns makes it fairly clear that he is only an occassional opportunist.
And Mysterio haters who say he's not realistic who also happen to be members of the Daniel Bryan Danielson cult, well, take a good look at your man.
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Post by Big fat failure turtle on Mar 21, 2011 20:44:03 GMT -5
I don't hate Oscar Gutierrez. I've never met him, and have almost no idea what he's like as a person.
But man, am I sick of Rey Mysterio...
@ randomranter: I get where you were coming from in your rant. I really do. And if I were in his position, I would almost certainly do the same. But I'd have to be "functionally retarded" if I didn't understand why a large number of adults hated the way I was booked for it.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Mar 21, 2011 20:45:35 GMT -5
Which people? Give me names. Hit-Monkey, for one. Other than that, go look at the threads yourself.
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