|
Post by Red Impact on Oct 23, 2011 23:51:16 GMT -5
If you go to college to get a job as your only motivation then you aren't going for the right reason. 4 year colleges aren't job programs. You could go to a trade school or a community college to get training in most careers. Not saying that shouldn't be the destination but that shouldn't be the only reason you go. You go to a 4 year college enrich your mind. The idea of getting a job as your only reason to go to college isn't the right way to go. You could easily find an entry level job at a company right out of high school and use the 4+ years you would have normally gone to school for and probably end up making more at the end of the 4 years than you would have after getting your degree. Let me tell you a very personal story to those who think college is a waste of time and money because you could find another way to get a job. I work at a bowling alley and me and my pal from high school started there in late 2007 right after we graduated high school. We both started off going to college and wanting to get 4 year degrees. 6 months in we both got promotions that paid us 10 dollars an hour. We both still had time to go to school and do what we wanted it was part time work that paid better. 1 year in I got offered a 12ish dollar an hour assistant department head job, but it was full time 34+ hours a week and 40+ during busy seasons (Winter mostly). I had a choice to make take the raise and basically give up school one year in to make more money or decline the promotion and go to school. I chose school, I didn't want to work in a bowling alley my whole life and I enjoyed going to school. My job paid the bills and it wasn't very mentally stimulating. Now my friend took that job, he decided to quit school because he couldn't handle the school work and the full time hours (You can't go to school full time and work 36+ hours a week, and it takes a lot of dedication to go part time on top of full time work). He eventually got the head of the front desk job a year and a half later and makes 42k a year (About that much depending on bonuses). He is years away from finishing school and will likely be stuck there a lot longer than he had intended. But he is happy, he lives on his own, he has money to spend on what he likes, and I am not saying he did the wrong thing. But that wasn't for me, I will be graduating from college this May and I still work that 10 dollar an hour job (Although I make 10.95 an hour now!). I could not be happier with my decision. I work about 25 to 30 hours a week (30 if I need more money) and if I needed time off I could flex that to 15-20 a week easily. I like going to college, its a lot better than knowing how to run the front desk of a bowling alley. And yeah it would be nice to make 42kish a year but than I would be stuck doing something I hated just because of the money. You don't make decisions in life purely based off of money. Now I am not saying to everyone a 4 year school is for you or that you should become a philosophy major and enrich your mind (Find a degree that is useful). It might not be for you, go it your own way. But to see higher learning as simply a means to an end is selling it and your education short a lot. I agree that you should use college as an opportunity to enrich yourself, broaden your horizons, do new things, etc. etc. The problem is that it's not really sold like that anymore. It's sold as a monetary investment from a young age. There's a lot you can learn in college, and a lot of it you can apply in your daily lives, but professors and advisers shouldn't sell students on the idea that they're going to get certain jobs with their degrees that don't exist or are extremely limited. There's a lot you can gain in school, and far more degrees than doctors or lawyers that can benefit from higher education. But they're just not really honest about all aspects of life outside of college, and students in it don't want to take the time to research it themselves, because they usually want to breeze through it. If you're going to sell it as a monetary tool, then those self-enriching classes shouldn't be majors, but electives you take in addition to the core classes for whatever you're being trained for. That way, you can achieve the self-enriching aspects of school while not throwing 200 students with leisure studies degrees into a work force that has no use for them. And really, trade schools can teach you to do a trade, and there's definitely value in that, but there're are a ton of jobs that actually require 4-years of education in things that you can't get at a trade school. There definitely is a major aspect of college that is about training people for their future careers.
|
|
|
Post by wcw on Oct 24, 2011 0:02:17 GMT -5
If you go to college to get a job as your only motivation then you aren't going for the right reason. 4 year colleges aren't job programs. You could go to a trade school or a community college to get training in most careers. Not saying that shouldn't be the destination but that shouldn't be the only reason you go. You go to a 4 year college enrich your mind. The idea of getting a job as your only reason to go to college isn't the right way to go. You could easily find an entry level job at a company right out of high school and use the 4+ years you would have normally gone to school for and probably end up making more at the end of the 4 years than you would have after getting your degree. Let me tell you a very personal story to those who think college is a waste of time and money because you could find another way to get a job. I work at a bowling alley and me and my pal from high school started there in late 2007 right after we graduated high school. We both started off going to college and wanting to get 4 year degrees. 6 months in we both got promotions that paid us 10 dollars an hour. We both still had time to go to school and do what we wanted it was part time work that paid better. 1 year in I got offered a 12ish dollar an hour assistant department head job, but it was full time 34+ hours a week and 40+ during busy seasons (Winter mostly). I had a choice to make take the raise and basically give up school one year in to make more money or decline the promotion and go to school. I chose school, I didn't want to work in a bowling alley my whole life and I enjoyed going to school. My job paid the bills and it wasn't very mentally stimulating. Now my friend took that job, he decided to quit school because he couldn't handle the school work and the full time hours (You can't go to school full time and work 36+ hours a week, and it takes a lot of dedication to go part time on top of full time work). He eventually got the head of the front desk job a year and a half later and makes 42k a year (About that much depending on bonuses). He is years away from finishing school and will likely be stuck there a lot longer than he had intended. But he is happy, he lives on his own, he has money to spend on what he likes, and I am not saying he did the wrong thing. But that wasn't for me, I will be graduating from college this May and I still work that 10 dollar an hour job (Although I make 10.95 an hour now!). I could not be happier with my decision. I work about 25 to 30 hours a week (30 if I need more money) and if I needed time off I could flex that to 15-20 a week easily. I like going to college, its a lot better than knowing how to run the front desk of a bowling alley. And yeah it would be nice to make 42kish a year but than I would be stuck doing something I hated just because of the money. You don't make decisions in life purely based off of money. Now I am not saying to everyone a 4 year school is for you or that you should become a philosophy major and enrich your mind (Find a degree that is useful). It might not be for you, go it your own way. But to see higher learning as simply a means to an end is selling it and your education short a lot. I agree that you should use college as an opportunity to enrich yourself, broaden your horizons, do new things, etc. etc. The problem is that it's not really sold like that anymore. It's sold as a monetary investment from a young age. There's a lot you can learn in college, and a lot of it you can apply in your daily lives, but professors and advisers shouldn't sell students on the idea that they're going to get certain jobs with their degrees that don't exist or are extremely limited. There's a lot you can gain in school, and far more degrees than doctors or lawyers that can benefit from higher education. But they're just not really honest about all aspects of life outside of college, and students in it don't want to take the time to research it themselves, because they usually want to breeze through it. I agree its not sold that way at all. Although colleges can help with job placement (Internships, connections via alumni relations, ect) its not really all what college is suppose to do. Its higher education, its choosing to go to more school. High school is the baseline its what you are expected to be able to complete. College is you saying you want to learn more, upgrade your brain so to speak. Now there is a pragmatic reason to go. Certain career paths need the training a college can provide and you can get placement and connections that can help. But its not the be all end all. 2 year tech schools, community colleges, and just being in the work force are all good and viable options. I don't know if its a causal effect. Colleges sell themselves as that type of job factory because that's what people want. If they sold you the truth a lot less people would go or value it as much.
|
|
Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
|
Post by Mac on Oct 24, 2011 0:10:18 GMT -5
MOST of the kids in college right now shouldn't be there. People who went to college used to be seen as above those who graduated with a simple college degree. Nowadays it's just assumed everybody should go to college, and a lot of them do.. they rack up tremendous debt they'll spend decades trying to crawl out of. $80k in student loans with interest is well over $110k just to graduate college. In the United States there is over a TRILLION with a T in student loan debt outstanding, thats more than everybody owes on every credit card in the country. Over 50% of the jobs recent college graduates take are jobs they could have received without the benefit of a college degree. I think 18-21 is too young to decide whats best for your future. I think a person of that age would benefit more from real world experience than chalking up $100k in student loan debt to get a degree in Peruvian Art History that will NEVER get them a job ANYWHERE.
|
|
|
Post by wcw on Oct 24, 2011 0:34:35 GMT -5
MOST of the kids in college right now shouldn't be there. People who went to college used to be seen as above those who graduated with a simple college degree. Nowadays it's just assumed everybody should go to college, and a lot of them do.. they rack up tremendous debt they'll spend decades trying to crawl out of. $80k in student loans with interest is well over $110k just to graduate college. In the United States there is over a TRILLION with a T in student loan debt outstanding, thats more than everybody owes on every credit card in the country. Over 50% of the jobs recent college graduates take are jobs they could have received without the benefit of a college degree. I think 18-21 is too young to decide whats best for your future. I think a person of that age would benefit more from real world experience than chalking up $100k in student loan debt to get a degree in Peruvian Art History that will NEVER get them a job ANYWHERE. Another thing that gets me is how exactly does someone get 80-100k in college debt? I go to a state school for 5 years. At the end of my college run I will have 30k in college debt. Had I gone only 4 years that could have been cut down 10-15% (Long story). I understand Ivy league schools and upper level schools costing a lot to go to BUT how do kids run up these bills that high? Community Colleges offer a way to get half of a 4 year degree with less than 15k (Way less) in college debt. Even if you pile on another 30k in 2 years at another school that's still less than 50k? I think kids have to go to school much more locally and at a commuter level. Out of state tuition and living at school piles on debt quickly. I had a friend who went to school in Florida and her family paid 6 figures for 4 years plus living expenses (Her family makes good money they paid her way). For my school it would be almost 8k for a year of room and dorm expenses. That alone is 32k for 4 years. By commuting I saved a shit load. College students have to have a different dream of college, Animal House just isn't for most people.
|
|
beamanhogan
Team Rocket
RIP - Macho for Hall of Fame
Posts: 867
|
Post by beamanhogan on Oct 24, 2011 11:11:33 GMT -5
I went to college right out of high school to get a degree in computer (I graduated high school in 2000). I went for 2 years before I decided I didn't want to be a programmer (which is basically all the IT degrees that were offered at my college was for). I worked full time during school and paid my whole tuition. I keep working my job and eventually moved to a different city for my company as a Web Administrator. I worked it for about a year and realized that I was getting angry that people stupider than me were getting their college degrees.
I transferred to a part time position back in my home town with the same company and enrolled at the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point again. I worked only 28 hours a week while taking between 12-15 credits for a Business degree. It took me 3 years to finish my degree. I have absolutely no regrets on taking any time off. In fact, I recommend it to people now if they feel burnt out. You change so much in life between 18-22 that you need time to evaluate what you want to be doing. Sometimes the answer is that I that you just need to work and figure things out. The funny thing is that I have about $15,000 in student loans since I graduatued and I have no problem with that. Sure it will take time to make payments, but I don't care. It is manageable since I am still working for the same company and got a promotion based on my degree (I am a Web Administrator again, but they love that I see the business' need for everything).
What is the point of my story, I don't really know other than you should always stop and look back at why you are doing what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with taking time off and looking at your plans.
On a unrelated note, I highly encourage everyone to not overspend on your undergraduate degree. An example, say I want a Masters in Business from the University of Wisconsin. It is just as easy to get into their program if my undergrad degree is from a smaller 4 year UW school as it is if I went to Marquette or UW. You can save a lot of money that way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2011 11:21:30 GMT -5
College was fun, but looking back, I'm not sure it was for me. I learned a lot of cool stuff and it is nice to have a BA under my belt when job hunting and stuff, but really it was just a 4.5 year delay on becoming an adult.
I think I would have been better off going to a trade school to get a steady job and just use my personal time for 'personal enrichment.'
College is also supposed to be for NETWORKING. That was one thing I never got. It is supposed to afford you the opportunity to network with people already in your chosen field and get an 'in' later on for a job.
|
|
|
Post by rapidfire187 on Oct 24, 2011 12:31:31 GMT -5
I want to know why colleges offer Associate's Degree if NOBODY hires people with Associate's Degree. I certainly hope you're wrong because I'm like, 1 semester away from getting one. Actually, I know you're wrong because my best friend has an Associate's and got his job through a co-op program at the school. He makes pretty damn good money now.
|
|
|
Post by breakdownthewalls on Oct 24, 2011 12:38:42 GMT -5
College is what you make of it.
Some people go too far one way and become weird recluses that only study. They end up with awesome degrees, but because they made no contacts and have no social skills, they end up in jobs that are below where they should be.
Some people kind of blow things off and either flunk out and waste time and money, or they get a degree that's completely useless for a job.
Take the happy medium: work hard, have fun, and you'll come out okay. I paid my way, went for every scholarship I could find, and worked part time. It was busy, and to be honest I was kind of happy to graduate, but it was still a good time and I enjoyed myself for most of the 5 years I spent in college.
That's another thing - don't plan on just being there 4 years. Go for a minor, take internships, whatever. If you add that extra year it'll do wonders to beef up your resume when you get out.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Oct 24, 2011 14:42:52 GMT -5
MOST of the kids in college right now shouldn't be there. People who went to college used to be seen as above those who graduated with a simple college degree. Nowadays it's just assumed everybody should go to college, and a lot of them do.. they rack up tremendous debt they'll spend decades trying to crawl out of. $80k in student loans with interest is well over $110k just to graduate college. In the United States there is over a TRILLION with a T in student loan debt outstanding, thats more than everybody owes on every credit card in the country. Over 50% of the jobs recent college graduates take are jobs they could have received without the benefit of a college degree. I think 18-21 is too young to decide whats best for your future. I think a person of that age would benefit more from real world experience than chalking up $100k in student loan debt to get a degree in Peruvian Art History that will NEVER get them a job ANYWHERE. Another thing that gets me is how exactly does someone get 80-100k in college debt? I go to a state school for 5 years. At the end of my college run I will have 30k in college debt. Had I gone only 4 years that could have been cut down 10-15% (Long story). I understand Ivy league schools and upper level schools costing a lot to go to BUT how do kids run up these bills that high? Community Colleges offer a way to get half of a 4 year degree with less than 15k (Way less) in college debt. Even if you pile on another 30k in 2 years at another school that's still less than 50k? I think kids have to go to school much more locally and at a commuter level. Out of state tuition and living at school piles on debt quickly. I had a friend who went to school in Florida and her family paid 6 figures for 4 years plus living expenses (Her family makes good money they paid her way). For my school it would be almost 8k for a year of room and dorm expenses. That alone is 32k for 4 years. By commuting I saved a s*** load. College students have to have a different dream of college, Animal House just isn't for most people. Private schools, out of state schools, and for profit schools. Not to mention graduate schools. It's possible. f.ex. I'm in the process of applying to grad schools for my chosen field. If I get into a state school, I can get out with no more than 34K in bills, most of which I can pay from my time working. If I don't get into that and go out of state, I'll be paying that much a year, so I'll end up with 100K. Going in state isn't always an option, I have two schools I can try and the program is very competitive, with few getting accepted. While I'm working for those, it may not be an option.
|
|
|
Post by nickcave on Oct 25, 2011 1:25:31 GMT -5
I'm currently majoring in film at KU and I'm thinking about double majoring in English Education so I have multiple opportunities to get a job in something that I would at least find enjoyable. I am well aware that having a degree in film really means nothing but it's the experience of working with the equipment, building up the resume, gaining contacts etc and that's literally the only way I could ever break into film. Coming out of a smallish town in Kansas, there's not a lot of opportunities to break into film otherwise. I would much rather take this opportunity to chase my dream while I can and use the best resources that are possible even if it means that I may be in debt. I would hate myself much more if I majored in something like Business and had some corporate job that made money but I absolutely hated.
|
|
Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,228
|
Post by Dave at the Movies on Oct 25, 2011 3:08:23 GMT -5
I went to community college for two years and it was a waste of time except in the fact that I figured out the stuff I'm interested in doesn't require a degree. I also may never make much money in what I'm interested in but doing something I like is worth more to me than money. It's hard to make money at being a film critic on your own small site, hosting podcasts, and working full-time in private security(for an incompetent big corporation but I manage to save more money than most people who have college degrees. If I can get to the point where I can quit the security job and work for myself I feel I will have accomplished more than most people who just settle down in a comfort zone by working for a giant company or the government for their whole life until they retire. I refuse to ever retire. Money isn't a problem for me because I live on my own with zero debt and well over ten thousand dollars saved up. Driving a cheap car and and renting can take you a long way.
|
|