theryno665
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Post by theryno665 on Feb 17, 2012 19:01:14 GMT -5
I mean, how the f*** do you market someone named Lift Sawyer? Christ. "Hey Evan Bourne, I see you trying to hoist Kofi's couch into his new place. NEED A LIFT?" /license to print money
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Feb 17, 2012 19:21:04 GMT -5
They need to start naming guys after gag names. Like take these Colbert SuperPac donors:
Suq Madiq Ibin Yerkinoff Pat Magroin Frumunda Mabalz
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Post by froggyfrog on Feb 17, 2012 19:54:52 GMT -5
Yo MTV Raps stylized logo. Nice Not gonna lie, Kassius Ohno sounds better out loud then it looks on paper, its growing on me. Since Hero is a hip hop head, I'm starting to get the vibe he's trying to get with his new name. If you read his tweets his pretty apparent he picked it himself and you can tell he really digs it.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Feb 17, 2012 20:39:55 GMT -5
Since Hero is a hip hop head, I'm starting to get the vibe he's trying to get with his new name. If you read his tweets his pretty apparent he picked it himself and you can tell he really digs it. He picked a colorful name for his new persona as an ode to the old school.
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CH Punk
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by CH Punk on Feb 17, 2012 20:45:08 GMT -5
The only way people wouldn't have complained is if he had kept the Chris Hero name.
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zing
Don Corleone
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Post by zing on Feb 17, 2012 20:50:58 GMT -5
While it was sad, I accepted that it was going to change. I managed to get really quite excited about some of the suggestions and come up with some myself.
But this is just a terrible name on so many levels. And if you need to explain relevance of initials and allusions to sports people I've never heard of, then it doesn't work, it's crap and it doesn't fit the first rule of a wrestling name which is to sound cool!
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on Feb 17, 2012 21:09:57 GMT -5
While it was sad, I accepted that it was going to change. I managed to get really quite excited about some of the suggestions and come up with some myself. But this is just a terrible name on so many levels. And if you need to explain relevance of initials and allusions to sports people I've never heard of, then it doesn't work, it's crap and it doesn't fit the first rule of a wrestling name which is to sound cool! Come on, I mean I think every name is going to have the problem of having to be explained. Let me play devil's advocate. How would you explain "Chris Hero" to someone, specifically someone who never reads comics? Most of his early gear parodied the Superman logo? Was he Superman-esque? Was he especially chivalrous? How does the name Hero play into being "That Young Knockout Kid?" I know I'm being difficult here, and believe me, I love Hero, and am so so so glad that he is getting his due shot in WWE, but I think everyone needs to take it easier on the name. The way I see it, very few wrestling names sound immediately "cool"or have their intended effect right away. Hero likely wanted something that paid tribute to his tours in Japan, as well as his previous gimmick as the "YKOK." I'll give him that luxury since it is his dream. I really don't think this was a case of the oft-referenced FCW-Name Generator curse. Kassius Ohno sounds a little bizarre at first, but in the last couple days, I kind of like the slightly ethnically obscure nature of it. He sounds like a man from many countries, or no country at all. I don't know, but I can say I'm liking it. Names like Hulk Hogan and Rick Rude, and Randy Savage are great in their simplicity, but some names can require a little less forthrightness. Names like Karl Gotch, Bruno Sammartino (though real names of course) and the like would probably get panned on here if they were thought of today, but really, I think everyone should give Kassius Ohno a chance, if not for my sake, at least Hero's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2012 21:21:39 GMT -5
I'm tellin ya, the more I read it/say it to myself, the more I like it. Kassius Ohno is such an open book, it offers more questions than answers. You can take that name in a lot of strange directions.
Try saying it fast. Kassiusono. It's badass.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2012 21:35:29 GMT -5
I'm bugged by the fact that it has five syllables. Any more than three, sometimes four, and you're fighting an uphill battle on it having a decent ring to it.
Granted, I don't particularly like the name Chris Hero either. Has sort of a weird ring to it, and Hero just doesn't work for me taken as an actual name.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Feb 17, 2012 22:37:39 GMT -5
I'm bugged by the fact that it has five syllables. Any more than three, sometimes four, and you're fighting an uphill battle on it having a decent ring to it. Granted, I don't particularly like the name Chris Hero either. Has sort of a weird ring to it, and Hero just doesn't work for me taken as an actual name. It's 4 syllables. Kassius is pronounced "Kash-us".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2012 5:44:09 GMT -5
I love that people are still whining and saying he should have his old name when he chose it.
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zing
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Post by zing on Feb 18, 2012 7:03:54 GMT -5
Him picking it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. People, even cool ones, are capable of being stupid! While it was sad, I accepted that it was going to change. I managed to get really quite excited about some of the suggestions and come up with some myself. But this is just a terrible name on so many levels. And if you need to explain relevance of initials and allusions to sports people I've never heard of, then it doesn't work, it's crap and it doesn't fit the first rule of a wrestling name which is to sound cool! Come on, I mean I think every name is going to have the problem of having to be explained. Let me play devil's advocate. How would you explain "Chris Hero" to someone, specifically someone who never reads comics? Most of his early gear parodied the Superman logo? Was he Superman-esque? Was he especially chivalrous? How does the name Hero play into being "That Young Knockout Kid?" I know I'm being difficult here, and believe me, I love Hero, and am so so so glad that he is getting his due shot in WWE, but I think everyone needs to take it easier on the name. The way I see it, very few wrestling names sound immediately "cool"or have their intended effect right away. Hero likely wanted something that paid tribute to his tours in Japan, as well as his previous gimmick as the "YKOK." I'll give him that luxury since it is his dream. I really don't think this was a case of the oft-referenced FCW-Name Generator curse. Kassius Ohno sounds a little bizarre at first, but in the last couple days, I kind of like the slightly ethnically obscure nature of it. He sounds like a man from many countries, or no country at all. I don't know, but I can say I'm liking it. Names like Hulk Hogan and Rick Rude, and Randy Savage are great in their simplicity, but some names can require a little less forthrightness. Names like Karl Gotch, Bruno Sammartino (though real names of course) and the like would probably get panned on here if they were thought of today, but really, I think everyone should give Kassius Ohno a chance, if not for my sake, at least Hero's. Chris Hero works because Chris is a reasonably open book name with no difficulty of pronunciation or spelling and not too loaded and Hero is a word that everybody understands. I really think it's silly to suggest that 99.99% of people who come across the name would have any trouble understanding the media presence of superheroes and probably know the most famous few. Who doesn't know Superman?! Even if they don't, it's still a word in common usage. Hell, *I* don't read comics and don't really like the Marvel sort of stuff and I didn't have any issue with the name. Nor does the meaning really need to be on too deep a level. Take The Rock as an example - one doesn't need to go around questioning whether he is igneous or metamorphic, Rock is immediately understandable as something hard and tough. Hero likewise has immediate connotations without it needing to necessarily have detailed integration into his gimmick. Likewise, Hero sounds cool and exciting and out of the ordinary - someone worth watching! Hero also has the magic two syllables and good stress. I don't see that it needs to play magically into some gimmick with the initials either since it was never a consideration before. Kassius Ohno (god I hate even writing that) is a very mixed up name. Neither part has obvious spelling or pronunciation - I have no idea about this pronouncing it Kash-uss as mentioned above, hate the use of a K in a traditional C name and would have spelled Ohno without the H if I had just heard it and was asked to write it. You want a name that people can get on board with immediately and understand without needing to have the reasoning explained on every single episode (two of the worst offenders for things like this in names would be Triple H and X-Pac which really make no sense to newbies or at all). Kassius makes me think either of Romans (more if I heard it than saw it) or Ali. The stupid misspelling gets my back up. I'd possibly expect an angry black hoss with that name? But not a pretty blondish guy with an adorably cheesy smile and a Jesus beard. Ohno makes me think of Sonny Onoo and Yoko Ono, so very Asian that again is not what you're going to get. And it leaves itself open to terrible jokes or just plain awful gimmicks. The disconnect between the expectations arising from the connotations of the name and the performer himself is quite large, and quite jarring to what suspension of disbelief is still there in wrestling that this stuff is in any way cool. There's also the "does it sound totally awesome, cool and impressive?" factor, which, for me, "Kassius Ohno" totally fails at. I honestly think I'd be embarrassed to say it out loud around non-fans because it sounds so utterly stupid. If he was adamantly desperate for KO initials (which I think is a stupid thing in itself, esp when you factor in Orton's use of RKO), there are much better choices out there. And yes, loads of old names wouldn't be well thought of by today's standards, (though there are some great examples like Harley Race) but the business is rather different now especially in terms of audience expectations, plus, as you say, they were often real names rather than chosen monikers, so it's a foolish comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2012 7:16:54 GMT -5
Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley before, so it does make sense and you don't have to explain it. X-Pac...a lot of fans knew that he was referred to as Syxx-pac in WCW, and now he's in DX. X-Pac. No explanation needed, its just that. The Rock was shortened from Rocky Maivia, which did have a "reason" for the name. This is a completely different circumstance.
If you have to write THAT much about a name, you're trying too hard to tell us all how much it sucks. It's unique, some find it cool, others will in time. Thats about it, you don't have to go into a 5 paragraph thesis on why you don't like the name.
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zing
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Post by zing on Feb 18, 2012 7:45:33 GMT -5
Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley before, so it does make sense and you don't have to explain it. X-Pac...a lot of fans knew that he was referred to as Syxx-pac in WCW, and now he's in DX. X-Pac. No explanation needed, its just that. The Rock was shortened from Rocky Maivia, which did have a "reason" for the name. This is a completely different circumstance. If you have to write THAT much about a name, you're trying too hard to tell us all how much it sucks. It's unique, some find it cool, others will in time. Thats about it, you don't have to go into a 5 paragraph thesis on why you don't like the name. The topic has reached 8 pages mate, and there's far smaller details have had more attention on this forum. Frankly, as someone who deals with words for a living, I'm interested in semiotics and that extends to things like wrestlers' names. If you like, I once managed an entire page of analysis out of the word "Oh!" from Antony and Cleopatra that I could dig out if you really want to see in-depth textual analysis? Or, if you had trouble dealing with a detailed deconstruction of the name, you could always go back to my initial 2 line response which dismisses it as "crap" and "not cool" without using too many big words. Should be clear to a total newbieI didn't deny those names had reasons, what I said was that the reasons behind them weren't clear without explanation to somebody new to the shows, a particularly important consideration at a time when they want to grow their audience. "Triple H", apropos of nothing, makes no sense to someone who was not watching at any time when he wasn't referred to as Hunter Heart Helmsley. X-Pac assumes then that you also watch the competition (Hell, I watched WCW more and it actually took me a couple of years to understand X-Pac, particularly with the spelling and pronunciation issues).
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on Feb 18, 2012 9:16:08 GMT -5
Him picking it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. People, even cool ones, are capable of being stupid! Come on, I mean I think every name is going to have the problem of having to be explained. Let me play devil's advocate. How would you explain "Chris Hero" to someone, specifically someone who never reads comics? Most of his early gear parodied the Superman logo? Was he Superman-esque? Was he especially chivalrous? How does the name Hero play into being "That Young Knockout Kid?" I know I'm being difficult here, and believe me, I love Hero, and am so so so glad that he is getting his due shot in WWE, but I think everyone needs to take it easier on the name. The way I see it, very few wrestling names sound immediately "cool"or have their intended effect right away. Hero likely wanted something that paid tribute to his tours in Japan, as well as his previous gimmick as the "YKOK." I'll give him that luxury since it is his dream. I really don't think this was a case of the oft-referenced FCW-Name Generator curse. Kassius Ohno sounds a little bizarre at first, but in the last couple days, I kind of like the slightly ethnically obscure nature of it. He sounds like a man from many countries, or no country at all. I don't know, but I can say I'm liking it. Names like Hulk Hogan and Rick Rude, and Randy Savage are great in their simplicity, but some names can require a little less forthrightness. Names like Karl Gotch, Bruno Sammartino (though real names of course) and the like would probably get panned on here if they were thought of today, but really, I think everyone should give Kassius Ohno a chance, if not for my sake, at least Hero's. Chris Hero works because Chris is a reasonably open book name with no difficulty of pronunciation or spelling and not too loaded and Hero is a word that everybody understands. I really think it's silly to suggest that 99.99% of people who come across the name would have any trouble understanding the media presence of superheroes and probably know the most famous few. Who doesn't know Superman?! Even if they don't, it's still a word in common usage. Hell, *I* don't read comics and don't really like the Marvel sort of stuff and I didn't have any issue with the name. Nor does the meaning really need to be on too deep a level. Take The Rock as an example - one doesn't need to go around questioning whether he is igneous or metamorphic, Rock is immediately understandable as something hard and tough. Hero likewise has immediate connotations without it needing to necessarily have detailed integration into his gimmick. Likewise, Hero sounds cool and exciting and out of the ordinary - someone worth watching! Hero also has the magic two syllables and good stress. I don't see that it needs to play magically into some gimmick with the initials either since it was never a consideration before. Kassius Ohno (god I hate even writing that) is a very mixed up name. Neither part has obvious spelling or pronunciation - I have no idea about this pronouncing it Kash-uss as mentioned above, hate the use of a K in a traditional C name and would have spelled Ohno without the H if I had just heard it and was asked to write it. You want a name that people can get on board with immediately and understand without needing to have the reasoning explained on every single episode (two of the worst offenders for things like this in names would be Triple H and X-Pac which really make no sense to newbies or at all). Kassius makes me think either of Romans (more if I heard it than saw it) or Ali. The stupid misspelling gets my back up. I'd possibly expect an angry black hoss with that name? But not a pretty blondish guy with an adorably cheesy smile and a Jesus beard. Ohno makes me think of Sonny Onoo and Yoko Ono, so very Asian that again is not what you're going to get. And it leaves itself open to terrible jokes or just plain awful gimmicks. The disconnect between the expectations arising from the connotations of the name and the performer himself is quite large, and quite jarring to what suspension of disbelief is still there in wrestling that this stuff is in any way cool. There's also the "does it sound totally awesome, cool and impressive?" factor, which, for me, "Kassius Ohno" totally fails at. I honestly think I'd be embarrassed to say it out loud around non-fans because it sounds so utterly stupid. If he was adamantly desperate for KO initials (which I think is a stupid thing in itself, esp when you factor in Orton's use of RKO), there are much better choices out there. And yes, loads of old names wouldn't be well thought of by today's standards, (though there are some great examples like Harley Race) but the business is rather different now especially in terms of audience expectations, plus, as you say, they were often real names rather than chosen monikers, so it's a foolish comparison. I wasn't trying to say that it was a cool name because Chris picked it. After all, if someone would want to make a case that he shouldn't pick his own name, one would only have to reference his pre-Hero "Wifebeater" moniker. Regardless, what I meant was that I think if you're a fan of Hero the wrestler, I think it's within reason to let him have his vanity project so to speak. If the name is going to fail and cause him to not get called up right away, I'm sure he'll re-think it, but as of right now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He seems really excited by the name, and though I'm not going to outright say, "Like the name because you like him and he picked it," I do think it would be fitting to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he can sell the name really well. Perhaps we should wait for a promo or two to hear how he sells it. Your "Rock" retort is a little too jokey in my opinion. True, though I was using the possibility of people not knowing who Superman as a hypothethical, let stand by the fact that you highlighted that it is a successful name because of that connotation. Connotation and Presentation are two things with wrestling names that are indelibly linked. Yeah maybe I'm getting too analytical, but consider this: If someone came up to you and said, "I love this wrestler named The Rock." Mind you, of course people could explain it is a reference to his family name. However let's toss that aside for a moment. "The Rock." No, no one would need debate whether he was igneous or sedimentary, but regardless the connotation is altered by the Dwayne's presentation. Can you tell me honestly that if someone came up to you and said there was a wrestler named "The Rock" you would picture someone like the Dwayne Johnson? I personally would either picture an overtly muscled guy--not to say Rocky isn't buff, he's in great shape, but I'm talking more Mason Ryan-esque type-- or alternately, a huge "boulder" of a man that might be more fat than muscled. However, regardless of my connotations, The Rock as done by Dwayne Johnson alters my connotation with how he presents it. He sells the name with that connotation inherent and more: He's Rock as in Rocky Johnson, third generation superstar, Rock as in rock star (His "concerts") etc. His name might say that he is hard and tough, but he also creates other connotations for the name to tell us that he is third generation, and a charismatic guy. I won't begrudge that Chris Hero is a nice and snappy name, but on this idea of connotations, Hero on the indies never typified a superhero. I'm not saying he had to be a "Hurricane" type faux-hero to fit the name, but....well let me explain: You seem to use the Rock as an example that connotations do work and have immediate connotations, but that Hero does, but it doesn't matter what they are. It can't be both ways. The word "hero" has its connotations true, but what of when he is a heel? Heroes by definition are never heel. Hero playing a heel requires a similarly nuanced understanding of words; it requires familiarity with the term irony. This would require some explanation, which I think initially is what you were arguing is counter-productive to an effective name. Regardless, with irony in tact, then we can understand that even though he is a "Hero," he is at the very least, conflicted. Though "Hero" does have a powerful connotation, and maybe a far more conducive sound and feeling to it than Ohno, it meets with difficulty in this regard. As I said, it depends on how you sell it. I haven't seen every Chris Hero promo on the indies, but I can't recall him ever referencing this dissonance while a heel. Maybe he did at some point though. While face, of course it works. Heck, him saving Candace Le Rae from Human Tornado in PWG fits that bill to a tee. That sells him as chivalrous. Point being,I'd argue "Chris Hero" was not as successful as "The Rock" in that the "Chris Hero" we all know and love, especially once he became the indie "it guy," relied less on connotations and more on name recognition. The name was snappy and cool, which as I said earlier is nothing to sneeze at. This all being said, I have no idea how he is going to sell the name "Kassius Ohno," but I am definitely interested to see how he does. We can suspect that Kassius is reference to Ali, Ohno connotates with something else, and that Hero ties it all together with the "KO" logo (stylized similar to the "Yo! MTV Raps!" logo to alert us to his hip-hop affinities.) That's all we have right now. I hate to be the "Let's wait and see" guy, but we don't know where he is going with this. If anything, I think Kassius Ohno fits his current gimmick better than Chris Hero does. Bottom line: Kassius Ohno CAN be an effective name. Will it be? Maybe not. However, I am going to reserve my judgement until later.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Feb 18, 2012 9:21:13 GMT -5
If people can get use to wrestlers named Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger, I don't think being called Kassius Ohno is the career killer some here make it out to be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2012 10:36:32 GMT -5
I'm bugged by the fact that it has five syllables. Any more than three, sometimes four, and you're fighting an uphill battle on it having a decent ring to it. Granted, I don't particularly like the name Chris Hero either. Has sort of a weird ring to it, and Hero just doesn't work for me taken as an actual name. It's 4 syllables. Kassius is pronounced "Kash-us". Ah. Actually, saying that it does sound decent. I'd change the spelling of the last name, though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2012 12:11:51 GMT -5
Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley before, so it does make sense and you don't have to explain it. X-Pac...a lot of fans knew that he was referred to as Syxx-pac in WCW, and now he's in DX. X-Pac. No explanation needed, its just that. The Rock was shortened from Rocky Maivia, which did have a "reason" for the name. This is a completely different circumstance. If you have to write THAT much about a name, you're trying too hard to tell us all how much it sucks. It's unique, some find it cool, others will in time. Thats about it, you don't have to go into a 5 paragraph thesis on why you don't like the name. The topic has reached 8 pages mate, and there's far smaller details have had more attention on this forum. Frankly, as someone who deals with words for a living, I'm interested in semiotics and that extends to things like wrestlers' names. If you like, I once managed an entire page of analysis out of the word "Oh!" from Antony and Cleopatra that I could dig out if you really want to see in-depth textual analysis? Or, if you had trouble dealing with a detailed deconstruction of the name, you could always go back to my initial 2 line response which dismisses it as "crap" and "not cool" without using too many big words. I understand now. I think I just disagree with the central point that the name doesn't sound cool. I think it's cool and I enjoy it, semiotics be damned. I shouldn't tell you not to analyze things though, that was lame of me. I didn't read back and just assumed you were in the middle of one of those huge arguments that happen when its just WALLS OF TEXT back and forth for pages and pages, which it turns out was not the case. Sorry. It was early.
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Post by Bungle on Feb 18, 2012 12:16:35 GMT -5
If Chris Spradlin had been wrestling as Kassius Ohno on the indy circuit, signed with the WWE, and WWE had renamed him Chris Hero, people would say the same.
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Post by froggyfrog on Feb 18, 2012 12:33:36 GMT -5
It's 4 syllables. Kassius is pronounced "Kash-us". Ah. Actually, saying that it does sound decent. I'd change the spelling of the last name, though. Yeah sounds much better out loud than on paper.
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