Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Feb 25, 2012 21:42:18 GMT -5
After getting from shit from a few fans..
Foley agreed with JR. Of course, the Wrestlemania main event IS Cena/Rock, so there's a good point there. Just thought it was interesting, especially after Punk's promos months back about failed football players.
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Post by moneyman20 on Feb 25, 2012 21:46:46 GMT -5
JR is the man. This just proves it.
All you need to do is show you work hard and you give a s*** about what you do. A lot of these "Failed Football players" show that and it shows and if they're over and draw money, they should be rewarded.
Did Austin start out as a wrestler? Did Rock? Sting? Macho Man? No, they didn't but they put their minds to it and showed that they wanted to be there and get better. It's as simple as that.
Yet, some fans want only guys who were wrestlers first and foremost there. No matter what kind of attitude they have. It's ridiculous.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 21:49:15 GMT -5
It's hilarious that anyone would give JR crap for that, when you consider that some of the biggest stars/names in history came from legit sports backgrounds, i.e. Macho, Goldberg, Rock, Steiners, Angle, Lesnar, Ron Simmons, JBL, and that's just off of the top of my head.
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Post by moneyman20 on Feb 25, 2012 21:50:03 GMT -5
It's hilarious that anyone would give JR crap for that, when you consider that some of the biggest stars/names in history came from legit sports backgrounds, i.e. Macho, Goldberg, Rock, Steiners, Angle, Lesnar, Ron Simmons, JBL, and that's just off of the top of my head. Because some fans honestly think they know more about the business than guys like JR do. Seriously, they do.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
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Post by Jimmy on Feb 25, 2012 21:52:12 GMT -5
It's hilarious that anyone would give JR crap for that, when you consider that some of the biggest stars/names in history came from legit sports backgrounds, i.e. Macho, Goldberg, Rock, Steiners, Angle, Lesnar, Ron Simmons, JBL, and that's just off of the top of my head. Not to mention guys who guys who played football their whole lives and didn't make it to the NFL like Vader, Lex Luger, and Dr. Death. And a guy like Brian Pillman who did make it to the NFL.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Feb 25, 2012 21:52:46 GMT -5
That's why I find it funny when people complain about guys like Hassan who didn't set out to be a wrestler, but had all the tools to make it big. Hell, even WWE was hypocritical in that aspect.
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Post by norsisclouds on Feb 25, 2012 21:59:50 GMT -5
After getting from s*** from a few fans.. Foley agreed with JR. Of course, the Wrestlemania main event IS Cena/Rock, so there's a good point there. Just thought it was interesting, especially after Punk's promos months back about failed football players. People who criticize JR don't realize how many successful HOF worthy talents he's scouted, from indy wrestlers to former football players. Mostly uninformed IWC fans that are giving him shit really, and I doubt JR cares. He knows what he's doing, as his next tweet demonstrated. It's not like he's picking the talent based on photo-shoots in magazines like some people...
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Feb 25, 2012 21:59:58 GMT -5
Well, forgive me for not worshiping at the Temple of Boomer Sooner, but this isn't totally without merit.
Jim Ross is one of many people in the wrestling business who will look the other way regarding talent for multiple reasons if they have "The look" and "the size". They are the ones that make wrestling as cosmetically focused as it is. WWE has always been more eager to higher a 6'5" 250 lb college linebacker before a guy that may not be the tallest or the biggest, but has been wrestling all over the world for 10 years, and that has really been the status quo until maybe a year ago.
Jim Ross himself is someone that always looks at college atheletes (football, wrestling, etc) before looking towards independent wrestlers. It's because they have "the look and the size" that WWE likes to tell us is how a wrestler is supposed to look and guys who have never wrestled before are easier to teach on how to do things "The WWE Way" as opposed to a guy who has to unlearn what he's learned from previous wrestling experience.
But this is what Jim Ross is good at. Damage Control for the company.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 25, 2012 22:06:41 GMT -5
It's really only recently that guys have gotten into wrestling with little or no legit sports background. Almost all of the all time greats excelled at sports, mostly football. West Texas St in particular, I always wondered if there was the culture ways where all those guys - Tully Blanchard, Brusier Brody, Ted DiBiase, Manny Fernadez, the Funks, Stan Hanson, Dusty Rhodes, Tito Santana, all played football there.
I wonder if that's something that's lacking at all in some of the newer guys - it must be easier to portray a competitive match situation when you've actually competed in sports.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Feb 25, 2012 22:06:51 GMT -5
Well, forgive me for not worshiping at the Temple of Boomer Sooner, but this isn't totally without merit. Jim Ross is one of many people in the wrestling business who will look the other way regarding talent for multiple reasons if they have "The look" and "the size". They are the ones that make wrestling as cosmetically focused as it is. WWE has always been more eager to higher a 6'5" 250 lb college linebacker before a guy that may not be the tallest or the biggest, but has been wrestling all over the world for 10 years, and that has really been the status quo until maybe a year ago. Jim Ross himself is someone that always looks at college atheletes (football, wrestling, etc) before looking towards independent wrestlers. It's because they have "the look and the size" that WWE likes to tell us is how a wrestler is supposed to look and guys who have never wrestled before are easier to teach on how to do things "The WWE Way" as opposed to a guy who has to unlearn what he's learned from previous wrestling experience. But this is what Jim Ross is good at. Damage Control for the company. Its completely without merit. Its a legit avenue to look for. No matter which way you do it, you're going to have successes and failures. WWE is better off than others because they can mix it up. Variety is important.
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Post by moneyman20 on Feb 25, 2012 22:06:55 GMT -5
Well, forgive me for not worshiping at the Temple of Boomer Sooner, but this isn't totally without merit. Jim Ross is one of many people in the wrestling business who will look the other way regarding talent for multiple reasons if they have "The look" and "the size". They are the ones that make wrestling as cosmetically focused as it is. WWE has always been more eager to higher a 6'5" 250 lb college linebacker before a guy that may not be the tallest or the biggest, but has been wrestling all over the world for 10 years, and that has really been the status quo until maybe a year ago.
Jim Ross himself is someone that always looks at college atheletes (football, wrestling, etc) before looking towards independent wrestlers. It's because they have "the look and the size" that WWE likes to tell us is how a wrestler is supposed to look and guys who have never wrestled before are easier to teach on how to do things "The WWE Way" as opposed to a guy who has to unlearn what he's learned from previous wrestling experience. But this is what Jim Ross is good at. Damage Control for the company. Because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Evan Bourne and Mickie James were only hired in just the past year, right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 22:08:30 GMT -5
Well, forgive me for not worshiping at the Temple of Boomer Sooner, but this isn't totally without merit. Jim Ross is one of many people in the wrestling business who will look the other way regarding talent for multiple reasons if they have "The look" and "the size". They are the ones that make wrestling as cosmetically focused as it is. WWE has always been more eager to higher a 6'5" 250 lb college linebacker before a guy that may not be the tallest or the biggest, but has been wrestling all over the world for 10 years, and that has really been the status quo until maybe a year ago.
Jim Ross himself is someone that always looks at college atheletes (football, wrestling, etc) before looking towards independent wrestlers. It's because they have "the look and the size" that WWE likes to tell us is how a wrestler is supposed to look and guys who have never wrestled before are easier to teach on how to do things "The WWE Way" as opposed to a guy who has to unlearn what he's learned from previous wrestling experience. But this is what Jim Ross is good at. Damage Control for the company. Because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Evan Bourne and Mickie James were only hired in just the past year, right? Never mind Benoit, Guerrero, HBK, Bret, Dynamite, Macho, Jericho, Regal, X-Pac etc. All not giants by any means, all wrestled all around before going to the E.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Feb 25, 2012 22:10:06 GMT -5
Plus JR pushed for years to get that clumsy bodybuilder Mick Foley signed.
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Feb 25, 2012 22:13:16 GMT -5
Well, forgive me for not worshiping at the Temple of Boomer Sooner, but this isn't totally without merit. Jim Ross is one of many people in the wrestling business who will look the other way regarding talent for multiple reasons if they have "The look" and "the size". They are the ones that make wrestling as cosmetically focused as it is. WWE has always been more eager to higher a 6'5" 250 lb college linebacker before a guy that may not be the tallest or the biggest, but has been wrestling all over the world for 10 years, and that has really been the status quo until maybe a year ago.
Jim Ross himself is someone that always looks at college atheletes (football, wrestling, etc) before looking towards independent wrestlers. It's because they have "the look and the size" that WWE likes to tell us is how a wrestler is supposed to look and guys who have never wrestled before are easier to teach on how to do things "The WWE Way" as opposed to a guy who has to unlearn what he's learned from previous wrestling experience. But this is what Jim Ross is good at. Damage Control for the company. Because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Evan Bourne and Mickie James were only hired in just the past year, right? Daniel Bryan was ridiculed from his first moment on WWE television and it hasn't even completely stopped since becoming World Champion. CM Punk had to (depending on what you believe) nearly literally walk out of the company with the title to facilitate any amount of changes in the company to move away from their practices. His first World Title reign was almost as bad as Rey Mysterio's, who would have never gotten that reign had he not been the tenured veteran that he is. Paul London and Brian Kendrick were afterthoughts for most of their time and fodder for whichever larger guys they decided were more WWE-friendly at the time. Paul figured it out and went out of his way to get himself out of the system. Kendrick was the Reverend D'Von for Ezekiel Jackson. All of these things say that with all of these talents that WWE hires that don't fit what the mold supposedly is for them, it is harder for them. I mean, did Reckless Youth Tom Carter ever make it to TV? And the general consensus was that he was damn talented and had plenty of passion for the business, but....it never panned out.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Feb 25, 2012 22:15:04 GMT -5
Bryan and Punk won world titles damn quick into their careers. London and Kendrick were boneheads. Punk's first reign wasn't great, but neither was Swaggers.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 25, 2012 22:15:34 GMT -5
Well, forgive me for not worshiping at the Temple of Boomer Sooner, but this isn't totally without merit. Jim Ross is one of many people in the wrestling business who will look the other way regarding talent for multiple reasons if they have "The look" and "the size". They are the ones that make wrestling as cosmetically focused as it is. WWE has always been more eager to higher a 6'5" 250 lb college linebacker before a guy that may not be the tallest or the biggest, but has been wrestling all over the world for 10 years, and that has really been the status quo until maybe a year ago. Jim Ross himself is someone that always looks at college atheletes (football, wrestling, etc) before looking towards independent wrestlers. It's because they have "the look and the size" that WWE likes to tell us is how a wrestler is supposed to look and guys who have never wrestled before are easier to teach on how to do things "The WWE Way" as opposed to a guy who has to unlearn what he's learned from previous wrestling experience. But this is what Jim Ross is good at. Damage Control for the company. Its completely without merit. Its a legit avenue to look for. No matter which way you do it, you're going to have successes and failures. WWE is better off than others because they can mix it up. Variety is important. Right, people are reading things into that tweet that just aren't there. He just said he's interested in looking at college football for wrestling prospects. Like every promoter in history. If Verne Gagne could tweet back in the day he'd be doing the same thing. If you want athletes, I would think sports are a good place to look for them.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 25, 2012 22:19:23 GMT -5
Because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Evan Bourne and Mickie James were only hired in just the past year, right? Daniel Bryan was ridiculed from his first moment on WWE television and it hasn't even completely stopped since becoming World Champion. CM Punk had to (depending on what you believe) nearly literally walk out of the company with the title to facilitate any amount of changes in the company to move away from their practices. His first World Title reign was almost as bad as Rey Mysterio's, who would have never gotten that reign had he not been the tenured veteran that he is. Paul London and Brian Kendrick were afterthoughts for most of their time and fodder for whichever larger guys they decided were more WWE-friendly at the time. Paul figured it out and went out of his way to get himself out of the system. Kendrick was the Reverend D'Von for Ezekiel Jackson. All of these things say that with all of these talents that WWE hires that don't fit what the mold supposedly is for them, it is harder for them. I mean, did Reckless Youth Tom Carter ever make it to TV? And the general consensus was that he was damn talented and had plenty of passion for the business, but....it never panned out. A wrestling company wants big athletic guys. I don't see this is as surprising, or as a problem. Why shouldn't wrestlers be bigger and stronger than normal people? Why shouldn't they have a legit sports background? I've never understood that backlash. Some people want to see only 165-guys who didn't play sports in the WWE, and they mock anybody that's big, but I'm pretty sure that's the strong minority. The WWE has done pretty OK for 5 decades or so. Where's the global wrestling promotion that relies only on under-200 pound wrestlers who do high spots and/or are talented in-ring wrestlers? The WWE doesn't have to be someone's preference, and that's fine, but criticizing them for not pushing smaller guys with no athletic background the same or better as bigger guys who excelled at sports is a little silly. It might not be your preference, but it's clearly not a crazy way to do things.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 25, 2012 22:23:07 GMT -5
Because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Evan Bourne and Mickie James were only hired in just the past year, right? Daniel Bryan was ridiculed from his first moment That's how you get over a wrestler with the internet fans. Treat him "unfairly", his popularity goes up 100X. It's a proven formula.
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Post by Richard on Feb 25, 2012 22:29:26 GMT -5
I mean, did Reckless Youth Tom Carter ever make it to TV? And the general consensus was that he was damn talented and had plenty of passion for the business, but....it never panned out. Probably the worst example you could give since he's flaked out every time someone's given him a chance.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2012 22:36:57 GMT -5
Because CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Evan Bourne and Mickie James were only hired in just the past year, right? Daniel Bryan was ridiculed from his first moment on WWE television and it hasn't even completely stopped since becoming World Champion. CM Punk had to (depending on what you believe) nearly literally walk out of the company with the title to facilitate any amount of changes in the company to move away from their practices. His first World Title reign was almost as bad as Rey Mysterio's, who would have never gotten that reign had he not been the tenured veteran that he is. Paul London and Brian Kendrick were afterthoughts for most of their time and fodder for whichever larger guys they decided were more WWE-friendly at the time. Paul figured it out and went out of his way to get himself out of the system. Kendrick was the Reverend D'Von for Ezekiel Jackson. All of these things say that with all of these talents that WWE hires that don't fit what the mold supposedly is for them, it is harder for them. I mean, did Reckless Youth Tom Carter ever make it to TV? And the general consensus was that he was damn talented and had plenty of passion for the business, but....it never panned out. That's a bit of a hasty generalization fallacy there. Just because Reckless Youth didn't pan out in WWE and had a passion for the business doesn't mean the the WWE is only concerned with cosmetics. By that logic we should be looking at a WWE where the Wrestlemania main event this year is Brakkus vs. Dan Rodimer (who, by the way, didn't pan out in WWE despite being EXACTLY the kind of guys you seem to think WWE unconditionally favors). Daniel Bryan was "ridiculed" largely by a heel announcer whose gimmick at the time, for all intents and purposes, was to get under the skin of the internet crowd. What better way is there to get that sort of heat than by "ridiculing" their favorite son? If the WWE actually opposed his success because he didn't "fit their mold" he certainly wouldn't be in the midst of a pretty successful title reign right now, because he never REALLY got main event level over until AFTER his heelish tendencies started shining through as champion. He could have very, very easily gone the way of such WWE-produced projects who never really connected with the crowd as Kenny Doane/Dykstra (and what is now happening with former golden boy Drew McIntyre). I'm not even going to get started on the fact that, if the WWE didn't consider CM Punk a massively valuable and irreplaceable talent, his "threats to walk out" would have been met with the WWE simply letting him walk out. You have to have some sort of leverage against your employer in a situation for a "threat to walk out" to have any sort of effect whatsoever. And not to mention the stuff that CM Punk has been allowed to say on the air. Paul London's nuts, and Brian Kendrick wasn't willing to give up his pot long enough to take advantage of the solid push he was being given as "The" Brian Kendrick. A push, where, if anything, Ezekiel was his Bam Neely. It's such an easy criticism to make against WWE that they only hire and promote juiceheads and bodybuilders, but it's just demonstrably false. Is it important for wrestlers to have a good look and charisma in order to connect with the fanbase and get over? Absolutely. Is a strong, athletic, look one that has a tendency to get over in wrestling. Definitely. Is it the only look that gets over? Absolutely not. The list has already been given numerous times, but some of the biggest stars in WWE history were anything but freakishly huge ex-athletes. Throughout its history, the WWE has always given wrestlers from all kinds of backgrounds and with all kinds of looks the opportunity to get over and make their way in the business.
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