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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Mar 31, 2012 20:52:25 GMT -5
You know, this storyline is intriguing enough, I guess, but am I the only one who thinks that maybe Chikara's getting a bit over-reliant on the "outside invaders" angle? First with the BDK, now GEKIDO? i wouldn't call the BDK "outside invaders", as almost all the members were already in CHIKARA. it was more like another KOW, a large heel group that ran roughshod over everyone
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Mar 31, 2012 20:54:09 GMT -5
You know, this storyline is intriguing enough, I guess, but am I the only one who thinks that maybe Chikara's getting a bit over-reliant on the "outside invaders" angle? First with the BDK, now GEKIDO? I disagree with the comparison. BDK felt more like an inside job into a "stable vs company" angle, due to how connected the members were before the stable started (or at least disguised within certain teams). This just feels like an outright invader angle, that COULD be connected to the promotional crossover. EDIT: mcmahonfan85 cover it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 20:55:21 GMT -5
Getting word from a friend at the DGUSA show tonight that in association with Dragon Gate USA, CZW and CHIKARA will be apart of next year's Wrestlemania weekend. Tickets go on sale later in the summer.
F***!
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 20:56:38 GMT -5
Yeah, BDK wasn't so much outside invaders as the rejects of the roster banding together, Pinkie, Lince, Donst, the girls, even Ares. KOW was more overall outsiders, Chuckie T, Mitch, Shayne, Boyer, Arik but I get what Spanky's trying to say. It followed the standard outside invading stable idea that Japan birthed, pretty heavily to the T once the BDK were revealed.
That said, typically these big angles tend to have at least two parts to them. The BDK had the build in to it, and then the reveal, and the stable running roughshod over the roster. KOW had them running wild and then Claudio destroying them bit by bit. And so on.
So this makes one think that this is clearly the first phase to the storyline and something's going to come out of it. If it's another big heel stable and that's it, a rehash of the BDK, that was a rehash of the KOW, well, then I'll be right there with you, Spank. It'll be a neat idea but a little disappointing.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Mar 31, 2012 20:58:58 GMT -5
full shows or featured matches on the DGUSA card? if its full shows it may end up being actually too much wrestling for one weekend (ROH, DGUSA, Wrestle Reunion, what ever local promotion happens to be running, and all the WWE events)
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 21:01:47 GMT -5
I'm a little nervous about the idea of CHIKARA trying to play with the big boys Wrestlemania weekend.
Then again, CZW's taking part in it...soo...
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Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Mar 31, 2012 21:07:00 GMT -5
I think it's time. I think CHIKARA's ready. They've done iPPVs. They've done cross-promotion, and with the exception of Jigsaw, CHIKARA guys are names on the indy scene. It's time to bring what CHIKARA brings to the adult table.
But the omg ants don't wrassle crowd won't ever come around.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 21:08:29 GMT -5
I think it's time. I think CHIKARA's ready. They've done iPPVs. They've done cross-promotion, and with the exception of Jigsaw, CHIKARA guys are names on the indy scene. It's time to bring what CHIKARA brings to the adult table. But the omg ants don't wrassle crowd won't ever come around. iPPVs? There's High Noon and...uh... Albeit I know they're about to do another one. And Djm, you forgot, ice creams don't wrestle either!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2012 21:18:05 GMT -5
I think it's time. I think CHIKARA's ready. They've done iPPVs. They've done cross-promotion, and with the exception of Jigsaw, CHIKARA guys are names on the indy scene. It's time to bring what CHIKARA brings to the adult table. But the omg ants don't wrassle crowd won't ever come around. It's the CZW bloodlust junkies who don't care for it. As far as I know, the DGUSA crowds mostly enjoy CHIKARA, because it's pretty much the same type of wrestling. DGUSA has stables, CHIKARA has wacky cartoon characters.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Mar 31, 2012 21:19:19 GMT -5
...and with the exception of Jigsaw, CHIKARA guys are names on the indy scene... uh, after Quack and Kingston, Jigsaw is the biggest name out of the CHIKARA originals in the indies right now
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Post by Talent Name on Mar 31, 2012 21:20:48 GMT -5
I know I am going to get a lot of flack for this but 17 sounds a little like Vin
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 31, 2012 21:21:46 GMT -5
...and with the exception of Jigsaw, CHIKARA guys are names on the indy scene... uh, after Quack and Kingston, Jigsaw is the biggest name out of the CHIKARA originals in the indies right now ....God, that's depressing. Why aren't UMB or Hallowicked, or hell, even Icarus, bigger than that goon?
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 31, 2012 21:23:50 GMT -5
Also, I started reading the Chikara web comic, and MAN, is that thing awesome.
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 21:25:42 GMT -5
...and with the exception of Jigsaw, CHIKARA guys are names on the indy scene... uh, after Quack and Kingston, Jigsaw is the biggest name out of the CHIKARA originals in the indies right now I'd actually argue that point. Hallowicked I dare say is a bigger name than Jigsaw is. The guy's wrestled for ROH, not as much admittedly and he's had visits to FIP, back when it was a thing, and PWG. The reactions he's gotten at all three places, as well as a few others I've seen him at, dwarf anything Jigsaw's gotten. I think there could be a case made for Ophidian too, albeit that was more of a packaged deal as the Portal, and Donst, and Gerard. The latter two I've seen pop up in a bunch of indies and surprisingly be well known. Same with Dasher and Fright now that I think about it. Though he isn't booked pretty much anywhere, besides CHIKARA, one could even make a case for UMB. I've seen him referenced in the strangest of places before and he's one of the CHIKARA students I've always noticed people can name. Even before they could name Jigsaw or Kingston, I'd seen Mantis' name dropped along with Quack's, Hero's and Claudio's. Albeit usually it was to make the same argument I heard so many times in regards to the Colony. "Derrr, hurr! He's a bug! Bugs don't wrestle!" But even outside of pro-wrestling I've seen UMB referenced a few times, namely at punk scene places, and not by people who would know about his band. It probably doesn't hurt I've noticed that, ironically in spite of his in-ring luck, Mantis has kind of become CHIKARA's poster boy. You see his face plasted around alot in reference to CHIKARA. Just look at Botchamania, for example. Point I'm making is, just because he wrestled for ROH doesn't make him the biggest name or draw behind those two. Or even that he's gotten chances others would've killed for.
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Post by Chainsaw on Mar 31, 2012 21:39:46 GMT -5
Getting word from a friend at the DGUSA show tonight that in association with Dragon Gate USA, CZW and CHIKARA will be apart of next year's Wrestlemania weekend. Tickets go on sale later in the summer. F***! God, I better start making my plans now for the whole weekend.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Mar 31, 2012 21:44:28 GMT -5
Wicked may have gotten big reactions for one off appearances in other promotions, but Jigsaw appears more often and more frequently in other promotions than him, and has been a regular (or at least semi-regular) in several large independent promotions
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Post by mjolnir on Mar 31, 2012 21:49:42 GMT -5
Wicked may have gotten big reactions for one off appearances in other promotions, but Jigsaw appears more often and more frequently in other promotions than him, and has been a regular (or at least semi-regular) in several large independent promotions I think it depends entirely on how you're treated though, in terms of being a name. Are we talking ROH? Jigsaw was a glorified jobber there and hated by the majority of their fanbase. Are we talking CZW? Jigsaw was a glorified jobber for the majority of his run, save his brief title run. Are we talking EVOLVE? He only popped in when Quack needed him to and they seemed far more concerned with pushing Quack & Wicked. Are we talking DGUSA? See EVOLVE. Are we talking IWA-MS? He was featured less there than some of CHIKARA's other stars and was treated mostly like a glorified jobber. Those are the major promotions he's appeared for, besides CHIKARA, on more than a one off shot. If we include less constant appearances, you can count FIP and I guess Osaka. FIP, where he was used to put Hallowicked over. Osaka, where he was used namely to give them a gaijin to let someone else get the rub over later on in the tournament.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Mar 31, 2012 23:10:03 GMT -5
Wicked may have gotten big reactions for one off appearances in other promotions, but Jigsaw appears more often and more frequently in other promotions than him, and has been a regular (or at least semi-regular) in several large independent promotions I think it depends entirely on how you're treated though, in terms of being a name. Are we talking ROH? Jigsaw was a glorified jobber there and hated by the majority of their fanbase. pretty much almost all of the CHIKARA originals (including Quack) were jobbers there, save Claudio and Sweeney (who didn't really wrestle). however Jigsaw was able to secure a spot on the roster, have a quiet a few feuds as a member of The Vulture Squad, had a handful of tag title matches, and actually had a suprising number of wins. and to say Jigsaw was hated is really strong. he and The Vulture Squad may have had its detractors, but the general reaction from the crowds for them ranged from pretty good to occasional apathy he had about the same win/loss percentage as other CHIKARA wrestlers, yet if you go back and re-watch his matches (especially in early 2006) he was very over with the crowd. and his "brief" CZW Junior Heavyweight title run was seven months, tied with Sabian as the seventh longest reign for the belt Quack stopped competing in EVOLVE after the first few shows, and Wicked left before him. Jigsaw on the other hand stayed on a little while longer, and they actually look to be making Jigsaw a regular again Jigsaw was a regular in DGUSA for the first year, and stay on for a little while longer after Quack left if i recall right when was the last time anyone cared what happened in IWA: Mid-South? it wasn't a major promotion for a long time even before its 257th closing, and with the exception of The Wild Cards, who got more exposure there than in CHIKARA, pretty much the only thing any CHIKARA original got from IWA: Mid-South was experience, not name recognition he appeared way more frequently in FIP than Wicked and a lot of the CHIKARA stars, and the only time he and Wicked wrestled against each in FIP Jigsaw won which is still more than what a lot of the other CHIKARA originals have done over there you may not like Jigsaw, but the fact is he works to get his name out there. maybe its because other people's real life jobs and/or living situations (e.g. married or have kids so they can't travel as much), or its from getting pushed by Quack (which works only up to a certain point by the way), that doesn't change the fact that Jigsaw's name has been out there a lot more than the others. i'm not saying Jigsaw is the best to come out of CHIKARA or that Wicked, UMB, The Colony, etc. don't have a name on the indies, i'm saying is if you look at the CHIKARA originals who are currently working in the indies, the casual indy follower who doesn't regularly seek out CHIKARA or its wrestlers would most likely to know of Jigsaw more than the others
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Post by The Spelunker! on Mar 31, 2012 23:38:37 GMT -5
GEKIDO is intriguing, if nothing else. I'm curious what it's leading to. Also, it's a very CHIKARA type story, centering around things like wrestling holds. Territory Era thoughts being used nowadays is pretty cool.
I don't know why more people don't focus stories around moves much anymore.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 31, 2012 23:46:16 GMT -5
GEKIDO is intriguing, if nothing else. I'm curious what it's leading to. Also, it's a very CHIKARA type story, centering around things like wrestling holds. Territory Era thoughts being used nowadays is pretty cool. I don't know why more people don't focus stories around moves much anymore. Thing is, though, it's almost the ONLY story Chikara's told, at least since the KOW story really got rolling. KOW=Chikara Special story built around the giant stable, BDK=REVERSE Chikara Special, built around a giant stable. Now we've got GEKIDO, which isn't a giant stable yet, but has the potential to be, and again, it's based around a wrestling move. I'm not saying it's bad, it's just a little....old hat.
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