|
Post by Crusty Ruffles on May 12, 2012 23:25:53 GMT -5
The problem with Davey is that a lot of people think he's an exceptional wrestler. In New Japan, in a lot of the matches he's in, he's actually the least talented guy in there. Rocky Romero's a better wrestler, seriously. Davey is good at knowing what to do in big matches, he just needs an opponent to control the match to stop it from getting too anal and overbearing. Hopefully Steen will do that tonight. I love you.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on May 12, 2012 23:48:58 GMT -5
Never got the hate on Davey Richards. He seems pretty solid. Maybe he shouldn't be getting a megapush in ROH but heh there are less deserving people in the world. Also just found his Match With Michael Elgin...Cool. I'm a fan of Davey too. And Spankymac, I remember you saying that one reason you didn't like him was because he kicked out of finishers. Well, Davey's not the only one to do that, because on tonight's show Steen kicked out of the DR Driver, then he took a running kick to the face from Davey--you know, that one he uses to knock guys out and get the pin--and kicked out of that while still having enough fight in him to sit up and spit at Davey. Oh yeah, and earlier on, Roderick Strong kicked out after being hit by Finlay's Celtic Cross. People kick out a lot in ROH, including kicking out of finishers. If you hate that, then you should hate the promotion instead of just one guy in it. The only thing that was wrong with him, IMO, was that they kept the belt on him for too long and made him look too unbeatable. Fans got tired of Super-Davey, just like they got tired of Super-Cena in WWE and like they're not enjoying Super-King in Chikara, and they wanted a change. If ROH keeps the strap on Steen for too long and never has him lose, then I guarantee you that eventually we're going to see Steen hate equal to the Davey hate. That kind of treatment will sour fans on anybody, no matter how talented they may or may not be.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on May 12, 2012 23:52:34 GMT -5
Well some people don't need Poopy jokes to enjoy wrestlers. Again , None of the things you said would make me hate the guy as much as you seem to. Different strokes for different folks I guess. He doesn't need to be funny or mention "poopy" don't put words in my mouth. He just needs to be good. He isn't. For an example of a guy who does what Richards should be doing SO much better than he does, look at someone like Arn Anderson. Dude was a great, underrated promo guy by being very intense and serious. He'd tell you he was gonna go out and mess you up, and then he'd get in the ring and back it up. If Richards could do that, a ton of his problems would disappear. I seriously do not give a shit about promos.
|
|
Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
|
Post by Jazzman on May 13, 2012 0:08:28 GMT -5
The thing I love about Davey, and also what I love about Eddie Edwards as well (since I like EE more that DR) is that it just looks like his is giving it 100% in that ring every f***ing time and that's something I respect. I have never gone away from an Eddie Edwards or Davey Richards match disappointed in what I saw happen in the ring, sure I may have been upset over the result sometimes, but never the in-ring action.
And to Socko's point, you don't have to entertain me with a great promo, as long as you can talk and get your point across and make me believe that what you say is what you can do in the ring that's all I care about.
|
|
|
Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on May 13, 2012 0:36:37 GMT -5
He doesn't need to be funny or mention "poopy" don't put words in my mouth. He just needs to be good. He isn't. For an example of a guy who does what Richards should be doing SO much better than he does, look at someone like Arn Anderson. Dude was a great, underrated promo guy by being very intense and serious. He'd tell you he was gonna go out and mess you up, and then he'd get in the ring and back it up. If Richards could do that, a ton of his problems would disappear. I seriously do not give a s*** about promos. You may not, but they are, flat out, part of the package. Davey doesn't have that. His promos are ass.
|
|
The Sam
El Dandy
The Brainiest Sam of all
Posts: 8,423
|
Post by The Sam on May 13, 2012 2:34:50 GMT -5
I like Davey. Though I'm not a fan of the way ROH have booked him, though that's more ROH's fault than Daveys.
While Davey may not be able to deliver a promo equivalent to Dusty's "hard times" or Jake Roberts "wallow in the avarice", he can deliver an ok promo. I liked the promos he did in late 2009/early 2010 when Eddie Edwards was out healing his elbow and he just finished their fued with SteenErico, talking about what the future holds for himself. Those are the promos that made me a fan of Davey. And besides, if everyone was delivering 5 star promos, then no one would have amazing promos. Sometimes you need a Michael McGillicutty to make the Dusty Rhodes look good.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on May 13, 2012 4:02:14 GMT -5
I seriously do not give a s*** about promos. You may not, but they are, flat out, part of the package. Davey doesn't have that. His promos are ass. With all due respect re. promos being part of the package: bulls***. I mean come on, does this mean that you can't get into any of KENTA's matches because he can't speak English and cut a promo you can understand? (Of course, you might be fluent in Japanese for all I know, but I'm guessing that you aren't.) What about Misawa when he was alive, or Kobashi? What about BXB Hulk, Masato Yoshino, CIMA, and other current Dragon Gate talents? For all of those guys are you like "Oh, they can't promo, so I don't care about them"? What matters is what happens in the ring. I'm a big TJ Perkins mark, and I doubt anybody is gonna say that he cuts killer promos, but so what? These guys are not running for public office, they are putting on a wrestling show. As long as they can wrestle, that's all that matters. Being able to promo is nice, but it shouldn't be required. While Davey may not be able to deliver a promo equivalent to Dusty's "hard times" or Jake Roberts "wallow in the avarice", he can deliver an ok promo. Thank you, I wanted to say it but I didn't want to be the only one here who did. Here's my critique of Davey's promo'ing: sometimes, if he's not trying, he'll come across as being bored. For example, on ROH tv when they're hyping an upcoming event and Kevin Kelly is running down the card, and then Davey walks onscreen and Kelly puts the mic in his face. And in this feud with Steen, he called Steen "fat boy" a few too many times. Yes, Steen is overweight, but you can only call him "fat boy" so many times before it seems like you just can't come up with anything else to say. Those are the only two flaws that I see. Because Davey, when he is trying, is convincing and can emote. When face to face with Steen, his anger seemed very real. When he won the world title, it was easy to believe that he was overcome with emotion and crying tears of joy. And in the ring...well, let me put it this way, I remember when Vance Archer debuted in WWECW and they tried to get him over by telling us he was intense. Except he wasn't particularly intense; he didn't seem to be really fired up, he didn't seem to really want to murder his opponent, none of that. Davey? That is somebody who's intense. Yes, just like Chris Benoit was during his wrestling career. Call him a Benoit clone if you want, but regardless of what kind of person he was in real life, in the ring Benoit was excellent, and was the definition of intensity. You can do a lot worse when picking a wrestling persona for yourself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 6:44:15 GMT -5
Getting the topic back on focus, yes, Richards does look like a wombat.
|
|
Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,628
|
Post by Magnus the Magnificent on May 13, 2012 7:07:15 GMT -5
No Photoshop yet?
And yes, the resemblance is uncanny.
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 13, 2012 10:36:53 GMT -5
Pretty much. The thing with Davey is that there is no middle ground on him. You either love him or you hate him. The man could give John Cena lessons on how to be a polarizing figure. I dunno about that, but considering how much Cena has evolved into a great storyteller in the ring, he could probably give Richards one of his best matches yet. And the "angry intense wrestler" persona has been beaten to death, peed on and beaten some more as of late, so I've been taking points away from Richards because of that.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 13, 2012 10:37:58 GMT -5
You may not, but they are, flat out, part of the package. Davey doesn't have that. His promos are ass. With all due respect re. promos being part of the package: bulls***. I mean come on, does this mean that you can't get into any of KENTA's matches because he can't speak English and cut a promo you can understand? (Of course, you might be fluent in Japanese for all I know, but I'm guessing that you aren't.) What about Misawa when he was alive, or Kobashi? What about BXB Hulk, Masato Yoshino, CIMA, and other current Dragon Gate talents? For all of those guys are you like "Oh, they can't promo, so I don't care about them"? What matters is what happens in the ring. I'm a big TJ Perkins mark, and I doubt anybody is gonna say that he cuts killer promos, but so what? These guys are not running for public office, they are putting on a wrestling show. As long as they can wrestle, that's all that matters. Being able to promo is nice, but it shouldn't be required. While Davey may not be able to deliver a promo equivalent to Dusty's "hard times" or Jake Roberts "wallow in the avarice", he can deliver an ok promo. Thank you, I wanted to say it but I didn't want to be the only one here who did. Here's my critique of Davey's promo'ing: sometimes, if he's not trying, he'll come across as being bored. For example, on ROH tv when they're hyping an upcoming event and Kevin Kelly is running down the card, and then Davey walks onscreen and Kelly puts the mic in his face. And in this feud with Steen, he called Steen "fat boy" a few too many times. Yes, Steen is overweight, but you can only call him "fat boy" so many times before it seems like you just can't come up with anything else to say. Those are the only two flaws that I see. Because Davey, when he is trying, is convincing and can emote. When face to face with Steen, his anger seemed very real. When he won the world title, it was easy to believe that he was overcome with emotion and crying tears of joy. And in the ring...well, let me put it this way, I remember when Vance Archer debuted in WWECW and they tried to get him over by telling us he was intense. Except he wasn't particularly intense; he didn't seem to be really fired up, he didn't seem to really want to murder his opponent, none of that. Davey? That is somebody who's intense. Yes, just like Chris Benoit was during his wrestling career. Call him a Benoit clone if you want, but regardless of what kind of person he was in real life, in the ring Benoit was excellent, and was the definition of intensity. You can do a lot worse when picking a wrestling persona for yourself. I see the point you're trying to make with promos but all of the guys you mentioned wrestle in countries where promos aren't that big of an issue. I don't think that Spanky was saying that bad promos mean you shouldn't/can't like him. There have been a few guys who have gotten over mainly on their in-ring ability (Chris Benoit, for example). I think the point that he was trying to make was that in America, promos are a BIG part of wrestling. You may not find it important, and that's fine but others do. Promos is how guys build up their characters and get the fans to see them as something other than "some guy that wrestles". Over in Japan and other countries, the in-ring work is main thing. In America, however, feuds and storylines are helped along by promos. If all you can do is wrestle, unless you do it really, REALLY well, chances are you aren't to make it far in American wrestling, especially in the larger promotions like WWE and TNA. People like Benoit are the exception, not the rule. Being able to talk and entertain IS part of a wrestling show. An important one at that. It's fine if you feel that in-ring is all that matters and that promo work should be secondary but to say that wrestling is ALL a wrestler needs to be able to succeed is a bit untrue. I'm not even saying that Davey is necessarily a bad promo guy (he sounds bored at times and his insults are repetitive but he can be decent to good on the mic every once in a while), I'm just trying to expand on Spanky's point.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on May 13, 2012 12:03:20 GMT -5
With all due respect re. promos being part of the package: bulls***. I mean come on, does this mean that you can't get into any of KENTA's matches because he can't speak English and cut a promo you can understand? (Of course, you might be fluent in Japanese for all I know, but I'm guessing that you aren't.) What about Misawa when he was alive, or Kobashi? What about BXB Hulk, Masato Yoshino, CIMA, and other current Dragon Gate talents? For all of those guys are you like "Oh, they can't promo, so I don't care about them"? What matters is what happens in the ring. I'm a big TJ Perkins mark, and I doubt anybody is gonna say that he cuts killer promos, but so what? These guys are not running for public office, they are putting on a wrestling show. As long as they can wrestle, that's all that matters. Being able to promo is nice, but it shouldn't be required. Thank you, I wanted to say it but I didn't want to be the only one here who did. Here's my critique of Davey's promo'ing: sometimes, if he's not trying, he'll come across as being bored. For example, on ROH tv when they're hyping an upcoming event and Kevin Kelly is running down the card, and then Davey walks onscreen and Kelly puts the mic in his face. And in this feud with Steen, he called Steen "fat boy" a few too many times. Yes, Steen is overweight, but you can only call him "fat boy" so many times before it seems like you just can't come up with anything else to say. Those are the only two flaws that I see. Because Davey, when he is trying, is convincing and can emote. When face to face with Steen, his anger seemed very real. When he won the world title, it was easy to believe that he was overcome with emotion and crying tears of joy. And in the ring...well, let me put it this way, I remember when Vance Archer debuted in WWECW and they tried to get him over by telling us he was intense. Except he wasn't particularly intense; he didn't seem to be really fired up, he didn't seem to really want to murder his opponent, none of that. Davey? That is somebody who's intense. Yes, just like Chris Benoit was during his wrestling career. Call him a Benoit clone if you want, but regardless of what kind of person he was in real life, in the ring Benoit was excellent, and was the definition of intensity. You can do a lot worse when picking a wrestling persona for yourself. I see the point you're trying to make with promos but all of the guys you mentioned wrestle in countries where promos aren't that big of an issue. I don't think that Spanky was saying that bad promos mean you shouldn't/can't like him. There have been a few guys who have gotten over mainly on their in-ring ability (Chris Benoit, for example). I think the point that he was trying to make was that in America, promos are a BIG part of wrestling. You may not find it important, and that's fine but others do. Promos is how guys build up their characters and get the fans to see them as something other than "some guy that wrestles". Over in Japan and other countries, the in-ring work is main thing. In America, however, feuds and storylines are helped along by promos. If all you can do is wrestle, unless you do it really, REALLY well, chances are you aren't to make it far in American wrestling, especially in the larger promotions like WWE and TNA. People like Benoit are the exception, not the rule. Being able to talk and entertain IS part of a wrestling show. An important one at that. It's fine if you feel that in-ring is all that matters and that promo work should be secondary but to say that wrestling is ALL a wrestler needs to be able to succeed is a bit untrue. I'm not even saying that Davey is necessarily a bad promo guy (he sounds bored at times and his insults are repetitive but he can be decent to good on the mic every once in a while), I'm just trying to expand on Spanky's point. and to add a bit of a point, overseas promos may not mean much but how you carry yourself and your aura are a big thing. Guys may not cut a lot of promos but they have characters that get over. Its not all just work rate. Even a guy like Benoit had an aura about him. Davey really doesn't have that.
|
|
Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,176
|
Post by Johnny B. Decent on May 13, 2012 14:59:01 GMT -5
To note, I don't like Davey because he's bad at promos, I dislike him because I think he's a truly mediocre, if not outright awful, wrestler with him being bad at promos as a "bonus".
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on May 13, 2012 15:12:03 GMT -5
With all due respect re. promos being part of the package: bulls***. I mean come on, does this mean that you can't get into any of KENTA's matches because he can't speak English and cut a promo you can understand? (Of course, you might be fluent in Japanese for all I know, but I'm guessing that you aren't.) What about Misawa when he was alive, or Kobashi? What about BXB Hulk, Masato Yoshino, CIMA, and other current Dragon Gate talents? For all of those guys are you like "Oh, they can't promo, so I don't care about them"? What matters is what happens in the ring. I'm a big TJ Perkins mark, and I doubt anybody is gonna say that he cuts killer promos, but so what? These guys are not running for public office, they are putting on a wrestling show. As long as they can wrestle, that's all that matters. Being able to promo is nice, but it shouldn't be required. Thank you, I wanted to say it but I didn't want to be the only one here who did. Here's my critique of Davey's promo'ing: sometimes, if he's not trying, he'll come across as being bored. For example, on ROH tv when they're hyping an upcoming event and Kevin Kelly is running down the card, and then Davey walks onscreen and Kelly puts the mic in his face. And in this feud with Steen, he called Steen "fat boy" a few too many times. Yes, Steen is overweight, but you can only call him "fat boy" so many times before it seems like you just can't come up with anything else to say. Those are the only two flaws that I see. Because Davey, when he is trying, is convincing and can emote. When face to face with Steen, his anger seemed very real. When he won the world title, it was easy to believe that he was overcome with emotion and crying tears of joy. And in the ring...well, let me put it this way, I remember when Vance Archer debuted in WWECW and they tried to get him over by telling us he was intense. Except he wasn't particularly intense; he didn't seem to be really fired up, he didn't seem to really want to murder his opponent, none of that. Davey? That is somebody who's intense. Yes, just like Chris Benoit was during his wrestling career. Call him a Benoit clone if you want, but regardless of what kind of person he was in real life, in the ring Benoit was excellent, and was the definition of intensity. You can do a lot worse when picking a wrestling persona for yourself. I see the point you're trying to make with promos but all of the guys you mentioned wrestle in countries where promos aren't that big of an issue. I don't think that Spanky was saying that bad promos mean you shouldn't/can't like him. There have been a few guys who have gotten over mainly on their in-ring ability (Chris Benoit, for example). I think the point that he was trying to make was that in America, promos are a BIG part of wrestling. You may not find it important, and that's fine but others do. Promos is how guys build up their characters and get the fans to see them as something other than "some guy that wrestles". Over in Japan and other countries, the in-ring work is main thing. In America, however, feuds and storylines are helped along by promos. If all you can do is wrestle, unless you do it really, REALLY well, chances are you aren't to make it far in American wrestling, especially in the larger promotions like WWE and TNA. People like Benoit are the exception, not the rule. Being able to talk and entertain IS part of a wrestling show. An important one at that. It's fine if you feel that in-ring is all that matters and that promo work should be secondary but to say that wrestling is ALL a wrestler needs to be able to succeed is a bit untrue. I'm not even saying that Davey is necessarily a bad promo guy (he sounds bored at times and his insults are repetitive but he can be decent to good on the mic every once in a while), I'm just trying to expand on Spanky's point. It might be hard to succeed in WWE without being a very good talker, but I kind of thought that we watched ROH, PWG, and other such promotions because we weren't necessarily fans of WWE and didn't necessarily buy into their idea of what you needed in order to be a star. (No anti-bullying pun intended.) There are lots of really popular indy guys who don't promo at all. In Chikara, Fire Ant & Soldier Ant just let Green Ant talk for them. Hallowicked never says anything remotely intelligible. Only one of The Batiri ever says more than two words. (All of The Batiri, however, are very talkative on the internet.) In DGUSA, as I said, the guys from Japan usually don't talk much. When they do promo in what English they know, they don't exactly have Flair-level charisma. In ROH, Michael Elgin is usually silent with Truth Martini talking for him, yet he's succeeded in getting over just by being a beast. El Generico has been a PWG World Champion. He may be one right now; I haven't checked lately. Generico does speak passable English every now and then, but more often than not he won't. Generico has gotten over, if I'm not mistaken, primarily because of the show he puts on in the ring. Speaking of PWG, does Super Dragon ever talk? Because if he doesn't, then he's over as f*** with PWG fans, I'm assuming also because of what he's done in the ring. And while I was writing all this, something occurred to me: even in WWE, there is an example. I mean, if being able to promo was so vital, then why was Sin Cara signed before he could speak English? Don't get me wrong, promos are helpful. I just don't think that they're necessary. Sure, it's hard to tell a story if nobody talks, but if only one of the principles talks you can still do pretty well, and I'm citing Steen/Generico as an example. I'll also cite the very first Undertaker/Kane feud, for that matter, back when Kane couldn't say anything and Paul Bearer was his mouthpiece. And hey, wasn't Sting fighting the nWo while staying completely silent for quite a while? I'm not talking about him just chilling in the rafters, I'm talking about when he finally went on the offensive. He was happy to beat up the nWo for what they'd done to him and to WCW, but he still felt too s***ty to bother saying anything. And although this may be more difficult, you can tell some stories without the main participants saying anything. Basic stories like "Two guys want the same thing, a title. They fight over it." Or "Two guys don't like each other. They fight," and in that one if there are reasons for them not liking each other that aren't immediately obvious you can have the announcers explain it to viewers. And really, that's all pro wrestling storylines need to be. I mean, for god's sake, don't people complain that there is too much talking in WWE and TNA? I get that people's mileage varies on this, so I'll just say that in my opinion, it's best to keep wrestling storylines simple. Don't try to do something that's never been done before, because that way lies silly and stupid s*** like Eddie and Rey fighting over custody of Rey's son, or the Undertaker being in a "persistent vegetative state", or John Cena being forced to act as Wade Barrett's slave, or Teddy Long having to rub oil on Antonio Cesaro (which apparently happened)...seriously, f*** all of that s***. Everybody gushes about PWG's product right now, so I'll summarize a fairly recent PWG story. Kevin Steen didn't like the Young Bucks. The Young Bucks didn't like Kevin Steen. Steen attacked the Bucks. The Bucks attacked Steen. And then this happened: That is all you need. To note, I don't like Davey because he's bad at promos, I dislike him because I think he's a truly mediocre, if not outright awful, wrestler with him being bad at promos as a "bonus". Amigo, I don't get that. I've never seen him botch anything, he's not musclebound and relatively immobile like Khali, he is not dangerous to work with that I'm aware of...how is he "terrible" as a wrestler?
|
|
|
Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on May 13, 2012 15:19:55 GMT -5
Because he has no grasp of psychology or selling. You've admitted in the past that you don't care if the moves make sense, as long as they look cool, so I see how you'd miss that, but if you're not telling a story in the ring that makes sense, you're failing. And Richards NEVER tells a story beyond "I'm intense, watch how many kicks I can do while no-selling all this stuff".
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on May 13, 2012 15:21:18 GMT -5
Because he has no grasp of psychology or selling. You've admitted in the past that you don't care if the moves make sense, as long as they look cool, so I see how you'd miss that, but if you're not telling a story in the ring that makes sense, you're failing. And Richards NEVER tells a story beyond "I'm intense, watch how many kicks I can do while no-selling all this stuff". Um, he sold plenty last night.
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 13, 2012 15:32:17 GMT -5
It might be hard to succeed in WWE without being a very good talker, but I kind of thought that we watched ROH, PWG, and other such promotions because we weren't necessarily fans of WWE and didn't necessarily buy into their idea of what you needed in order to be a star. (No anti-bullying pun intended.) There are lots of really popular indy guys who don't promo at all. In Chikara, Fire Ant & Soldier Ant just let Green Ant talk for them. Hallowicked never says anything remotely intelligible. Only one of The Batiri ever says more than two words. (All of The Batiri, however, are very talkative on the internet.) In DGUSA, as I said, the guys from Japan usually don't talk much. When they do promo in what English they know, they don't exactly have Flair-level charisma. In ROH, Michael Elgin is usually silent with Truth Martini talking for him, yet he's succeeded in getting over just by being a beast. El Generico has been a PWG World Champion. He may be one right now; I haven't checked lately. Generico does speak passable English every now and then, but more often than not he won't. Generico has gotten over, if I'm not mistaken, primarily because of the show he puts on in the ring. Speaking of PWG, does Super Dragon ever talk? Because if he doesn't, then he's over as f*** with PWG fans, I'm assuming also because of what he's done in the ring. And while I was writing all this, something occurred to me: even in WWE, there is an example. I mean, if being able to promo was so vital, then why was Sin Cara signed before he could speak English? Don't get me wrong, promos are helpful. I just don't think that they're necessary. Sure, it's hard to tell a story if nobody talks, but if only one of the principles talks you can still do pretty well, and I'm citing Steen/Generico as an example. I'll also cite the very first Undertaker/Kane feud, for that matter, back when Kane couldn't say anything and Paul Bearer was his mouthpiece. And hey, wasn't Sting fighting the nWo while staying completely silent for quite a while? I'm not talking about him just chilling in the rafters, I'm talking about when he finally went on the offensive. He was happy to beat up the nWo for what they'd done to him and to WCW, but he still felt too s***ty to bother saying anything. And although this may be more difficult, you can tell some stories without the main participants saying anything. Basic stories like "Two guys want the same thing, a title. They fight over it." Or "Two guys don't like each other. They fight," and in that one if there are reasons for them not liking each other that aren't immediately obvious you can have the announcers explain it to viewers. And really, that's all pro wrestling storylines need to be. I mean, for god's sake, don't people complain that there is too much talking in WWE and TNA? I get that people's mileage varies on this, so I'll just say that in my opinion, it's best to keep wrestling storylines simple. Don't try to do something that's never been done before, because that way lies silly and stupid s*** like Eddie and Rey fighting over custody of Rey's son, or the Undertaker being in a "persistent vegetative state", or John Cena being forced to act as Wade Barrett's slave, or Teddy Long having to rub oil on Antonio Cesaro (which apparently happened)...seriously, f*** all of that s***. Everybody gushes about PWG's product right now, so I'll summarize a fairly recent PWG story. Kevin Steen didn't like the Young Bucks. The Young Bucks didn't like Kevin Steen. Steen attacked the Bucks. The Bucks attacked Steen. And then this happened: That is all you need. While I wouldn't consider any of them completely abysmal on the mic, Bret Hart, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit and Jeff Hardy did quite well for themselves in WWE, so it'd be a stretch to claim they don't care about a guy's wrestling ability. As for the stories...yes, I think a lot of the time, a wrestling storyline needs to have something at its core other than "I hate you and I'm going to fight you"- in fact, that approach has been extremely detrimental to WWE's midcard over the years (not to mention ROH's current main event, IMO). There's just as strong a theatrical aspect to wrestling as there is an athletic one, and if you de-emphasize one over the other, you'll get yourself in trouble. Say what you will about their endings, but the Dominic custody angle and Cena being Nexus's slave were classic examples of what a wrestling story should be. Companies need that extra thing to make the fans care about their characters.
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 13, 2012 15:36:25 GMT -5
Because he has no grasp of psychology or selling. You've admitted in the past that you don't care if the moves make sense, as long as they look cool, so I see how you'd miss that, but if you're not telling a story in the ring that makes sense, you're failing. And Richards NEVER tells a story beyond "I'm intense, watch how many kicks I can do while no-selling all this stuff". Um, he sold plenty last night. Shit, what choice did he have? It's freaking Rhino.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,152
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 13, 2012 15:39:42 GMT -5
Um, he sold plenty last night. s***, what choice did he have? It's freaking Rhino. Richards wrestled Kevin Steen. Not Rhino.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on May 13, 2012 15:49:11 GMT -5
While I wouldn't consider any of them completely abysmal on the mic, Bret Hart, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit and Jeff Hardy did quite well for themselves in WWE, so it'd be a stretch to claim they don't care about a guy's wrestling ability. Yeah, but for every Rey Mysterio there's an Evan Bourne, you know? I'd argue that if you try to make it like a soap opera, then it can very easily result in something very stupid. Not always, but far too often. WrestleCrap has tons of examples of this. Here's one example... HHH vs. Jericho in 2002 would have been fine if they just focused on HHH pursuing the title after Jericho unified the belts. But that wasn't enough. They thought they needed to add something. "What can we add to make this more interesting? Oh, we have Steph and Hunter go through a divorce, and Steph side with Jericho! But that's not enough, we need to do something more...oh, I just got this awesome idea, we'll have Jericho be responsible for Hunter's dog getting run over!"
|
|