mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Nov 19, 2012 0:28:52 GMT -5
I'm just speaking length-wise for Miz's reign. I do think his run had problems, but that's mostly because at the time pretty much every main-eventer besides Cena, Orton, and Edge was heel. Guess they could've gone with Big Show or Kane for it but they were busy wrecking any potential the Corre had. Also, I remain baffled why every PPV match between Cena and Miz is terrible, but the two have great chemistry on TV. I simply like the change of pace because if you constantly have title changes every couple months, it gets predictable. With Punk's reign now, you have no idea when it's likely to come to an end. Could be TLC, could be the Rumble...could be WM. Could be tomorrow. Hell, it could be at Summerslam 2013 if they really had the balls to wait that long. The point being, is we're experiencing something that won't likely be duplicated any time soon, so in a way, I'm a band wagon supporter just because it's a good selling point for the rest of his career, the same way Jericho's undisputed title win was to him. I'd rather see a 400 day champion than a 4 time or 6 time or 11 time champion...we've seen that before. I'm not denying his character isn't that good, but the matches have been and to me that's enough to warrant something we'll likely not see again in a very very very long time. I liked Miz/Cena's first PPV match where Miz was supposedly 9-0 against him. This was before he became generic and domineering.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Nov 19, 2012 0:31:09 GMT -5
Wait - you just said earlier the ratings have never been lower - so which is it? Are Cena's/Ajs/Vicki's ratings matching the 3.5's he was getting last year before they went to 3 hours? Honestly - I'm not saying Punk's a demigod who can do no wrong just that the business is changing and them going to three hours negatively affected their ratings, though they got more money from advertising on the whole I think for that extra hour. Good total rating isn't all on Cena, since he isn't in every segment but his segments always bring in ratings. To draw they need other guys to get over and Ryback has shown to be a TV draw making the numbers move here as late. Punk vs Del Rio Cena vs Del Rio Ryback vs Del Rio Which one of these would do the worst rating at the top of any of the hours on a Monday night? Seriously If they didn't book themselves into a corner with all their mania plans set they would be probably be doing Ryback and Cena right now. And Ryback's career would be ruined before it even got started. Punk was too much, too soon, and it showed in the way they booked the matches. How do you book Ryback/Cena in a way you can go back to it. If Cena wins, there's no point in going back, if Ryback wins, Cena pretty much has to go heel to return to it. Not for nothing, the guy came out to zero pop tonight, and they set him up as the star of the match, coming out last.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 0:32:35 GMT -5
Wait - you just said earlier the ratings have never been lower - so which is it? Are Cena's/Ajs/Vicki's ratings matching the 3.5's he was getting last year before they went to 3 hours? Honestly - I'm not saying Punk's a demigod who can do no wrong just that the business is changing and them going to three hours negatively affected their ratings, though they got more money from advertising on the whole I think for that extra hour. Good total rating isn't all on Cena, since he isn't in every segment but his segments always bring in ratings. To draw they need other guys to get over and Ryback has shown to be a TV draw making the numbers move here as late. Punk vs Del Rio Cena vs Del Rio Ryback vs Del Rio Which one of these would do the worst rating at the top of any of the hours on a Monday night? Seriously If they didn't book themselves into a corner with all their mania plans set they would be probably be doing Ryback and Cena right now. I've yet to see any numbers to back up any talk that Cena's segments draw such a large amount more than everyone elses (though they should to a degree anyway, probably more than they actually do since WWE's put millions of dollars and a decade of promotion behind him). He should be blowing Punk out of the water by a full ratings point considering Punk just stepped into the main event a couple of years ago. Actually if they didn't book themselves into a corner with Cena being injured like he was, Ryback may not have even made into the Main Event at all. Plus they could still end up with Cena v Ryback, just not for the title. Haha, and all 3 of those matches would die a horrible death (because of Del Rio not Punk, Cena or Ryback).
|
|
|
Post by misconduct was wrong on Nov 19, 2012 0:34:50 GMT -5
The crowd was a crappy smark crowd. The barely popped for anything. They did get into the feed me more chants, but I wouldn't base anything moving forward on the crowd reactions tonight.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 19, 2012 0:36:31 GMT -5
Tell me what any run accomplishes? I can sit here all day and poke holes in everyone's reigns and call them all useless if I looked deep enough into it. Each run can get the guy over, help business or ratings, lead to a big storyline and so on and so forth. No run is the same but any good one should have at least one major net positive and this one has no posties other than killing off the back half of the year to make it to mania season. The first part of the run was in the middle of the Card, the next 4 months he was made to look like a fool in a love triangle even getting put through a table by AJ to close out a show and the last 4 months has seen him get his ass handed to him at every turn only to escape with help not even affiliated with him at the time. His first short run will go down in history as the more memorable run than this one last a full year.
|
|
|
Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Nov 19, 2012 0:37:32 GMT -5
The crowd was a crappy smark crowd. The barely popped for anything. They did get into the feed me more chants, but I wouldn't base anything moving forward on the crowd reactions tonight. I didn't watch the main ppv tonight, but the crowd was pretty goddamn intense during the pre-show. Did they burn out that quickly?
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Nov 19, 2012 0:39:50 GMT -5
The crowd was a crappy smark crowd. The barely popped for anything. They did get into the feed me more chants, but I wouldn't base anything moving forward on the crowd reactions tonight. That's the problem, any time a crowd doesn't respond the way it's supposed to, it's a crappy smark crowd. Indianapolis is a smark crowd now? Soon it'll be Tulsa or something. It was too much too soon, proven by the ridiculous lengths they went to protect him. They made Cena look like a total ass and a total loser to protect him.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Nov 19, 2012 0:40:15 GMT -5
The crowd was a crappy smark crowd. The barely popped for anything. They did get into the feed me more chants, but I wouldn't base anything moving forward on the crowd reactions tonight. I didn't watch the main ppv tonight, but the crowd was pretty goddamn intense during the pre-show. Did they burn out that quickly? They got an absolutely brutal 90 minutes to start the show.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 19, 2012 0:49:44 GMT -5
And Ryback's career would be ruined before it even got started. Punk was too much, too soon, and it showed in the way they booked the matches. How do you book Ryback/Cena in a way you can go back to it. If Cena wins, there's no point in going back, if Ryback wins, Cena pretty much has to go heel to return to it. Not for nothing, the guy came out to zero pop tonight, and they set him up as the star of the match, coming out last. The matches had to be booked that way in part because they couldn't have him win, not only because he's somewhat limited. You have Ryback get his little run with the belt and establish him as a main event level guy. Then after a while you have a match like tonight and he loses the belt without getting pinned. You then break him off for a small program with whoever screwed him to kill time and put him back chasing the title again then he wins it holds it for a while then its time to beat him and potentially make someone a star. You can get a whole year out of this and all the time on the house shows he's working with guys who can work and hopefully he gets better. If the WM plans weren't in ink and right around the corner and you had the Ryback fall into your laps like this you could make him a star or at least give him every shot at being one.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Nov 19, 2012 0:54:24 GMT -5
And Ryback's career would be ruined before it even got started. Punk was too much, too soon, and it showed in the way they booked the matches. How do you book Ryback/Cena in a way you can go back to it. If Cena wins, there's no point in going back, if Ryback wins, Cena pretty much has to go heel to return to it. Not for nothing, the guy came out to zero pop tonight, and they set him up as the star of the match, coming out last. The matches had to be booked that way in part because they couldn't have him win, not only because he's somewhat limited. You have Ryback get his little run with the belt and establish him as a main event level guy. Then after a while you have a match like tonight and he loses the belt without getting pinned. You then break him off for a small program with whoever screwed him to kill time and put him back chasing the title again then he wins it holds it for a while then its time to beat him and potentially make someone a star. You can get a whole year out of this and all the time on the house shows he's working with guys who can work and hopefully he gets better. If the WM plans weren't in ink and right around the corner and you had the Ryback fall into your laps like this you could make him a star or at least give him every shot at being one. I actually agree that if this was the finish for SS, he should have won at Hell in a Cell. Problem is the office didn't think he should win, so they gave him two screwjobs in a row. I think it got him more over but these matches hurt in the long run. Also kills his heat to a point because people just expect stupidity. So he comes out of this looking alright, but with no payoff either, and now it's back down the card. Punk looks like a schmuck, but he's a heel an he won so it doesn't matter. Cena looks like a complete schmuck. He actually managed to lose clean in that gigantic clusterf***. So clean that he was beat by the other guy 90 seconds later.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 19, 2012 0:55:27 GMT -5
I've yet to see any numbers to back up any talk that Cena's segments draw such a large amount more than everyone elses (though they should to a degree anyway, probably more than they actually do since WWE's put millions of dollars and a decade of promotion behind him). He should be blowing Punk out of the water by a full ratings point considering Punk just stepped into the main event a couple of years ago. Actually if they didn't book themselves into a corner with Cena being injured like he was, Ryback may not have even made into the Main Event at all. Plus they could still end up with Cena v Ryback, just not for the title. Haha, and all 3 of those matches would die a horrible death (because of Del Rio not Punk, Cena or Ryback). Do you not read the segment by segments? Ryback was dentin to me a main event guy from the second the crowd chanted with him, they need guys he has Vince's dream look. Ryback needs the belt as some point soon to truly be successful, you have to show the people he's more than the guy who keeps getting the title taken from him from outsiders. WWE has a bad habit of pulling the trigger on things after the time has passed and the heat is lost, if you keep pulling the rug out from under guys the fans eventually stop believing. That's why I picked Alberto if you have all 3 of those Ryback would likely draw the best.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Nov 19, 2012 1:08:34 GMT -5
His first short run will go down in history as the more memorable run than this one last a full year. The match he first one the title? Yeah...definitely. But the follow up? He disappears, reappears, joins forces with Triple H and loses the title after Kevin Nash interferes. I'll gladly take ANY PPV finish during this run than what happened at Summerslam 2011.
|
|
|
Post by Throwback on Nov 19, 2012 1:37:33 GMT -5
you know. Last years Survivor Series was actually 363 days ago. Just thought I'd point that out.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 19, 2012 1:37:41 GMT -5
The match he first one the title? Yeah...definitely. But the follow up? He disappears, reappears, joins forces with Triple H and loses the title after Kevin Nash interferes. I'll gladly take ANY PPV finish during this run than what happened at Summerslam 2011. The follow up was weak but in 15-20 years from now when looking back that night in Chicago along with the pipe bomb promo will be remembered more than anything during this year long run by a wide margin. The thing that will stand out from this run will be if he does indeed drop it to the Rock at the Rumble.
|
|
|
Post by memphis25 on Nov 19, 2012 1:42:26 GMT -5
you know. Last years Survivor Series was actually 363 days ago. Just thought I'd point that out. 2012 was a leap year
|
|
|
Post by Throwback on Nov 19, 2012 1:46:44 GMT -5
you know. Last years Survivor Series was actually 363 days ago. Just thought I'd point that out. 2012 was a leap year ok then 364
|
|
vivix
ALF
Strike Hard Strike Fast
Posts: 1,077
|
Post by vivix on Nov 19, 2012 1:54:33 GMT -5
As of Midnight on the east coast it was 365
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Nov 19, 2012 1:58:24 GMT -5
The crowd was a crappy smark crowd. The barely popped for anything. They did get into the feed me more chants, but I wouldn't base anything moving forward on the crowd reactions tonight. I don't think you know what a smark crowd is. That's just a terrible crowd. A smark crowd makes noise for everything, even if they are often out to get themselves over. The Miami crowd for RAW after WrestleMania was a smark crowd.
|
|
Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,545
|
Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 19, 2012 2:08:39 GMT -5
The crowd was a crappy smark crowd. The barely popped for anything. They did get into the feed me more chants, but I wouldn't base anything moving forward on the crowd reactions tonight. I don't think you know what a smark crowd is. That's just a terrible crowd. A smark crowd makes noise for everything, even if they are often out to get themselves over. The Miami crowd for RAW after WrestleMania was a smark crowd. I was in that crowd and can concur. The YES! Chants were starting even before the show started. As for tonight, at least Miz got something of a reaction.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Nov 19, 2012 2:13:50 GMT -5
The match he first one the title? Yeah...definitely. But the follow up? He disappears, reappears, joins forces with Triple H and loses the title after Kevin Nash interferes. I'll gladly take ANY PPV finish during this run than what happened at Summerslam 2011. The follow up was weak but in 15-20 years from now when looking back that night in Chicago along with the pipe bomb promo will be remembered more than anything during this year long run by a wide margin. The thing that will stand out from this run will be if he does indeed drop it to the Rock at the Rumble. The reign isn't over yet. You can't determine something like that. And you know what? It's pretty hard to top something like MITB...and I don't think you need to top it. Punk's matches by large have been good during this reign, so if 15 to 20 years from now we get an extensive home video release of just matches, people are going to see why his reign hasn't been all bad. It reminds me of Shawn Michaels' first run...great matches, but lackluster character. In the same vein, I had no problem with any time he retained because it would lead to more greatness.
|
|