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Post by gonzo16 on Dec 22, 2011 0:20:16 GMT -5
I can't remember exactly but I think Mick Foley once mentioned that he tried his best to but failed to help bring Val Venis to that next level. Yeah, and he wasn't the only one. Venis went over a red hot Rikishi in a cage match around 2000 also as a heel, but nobody cared. Then when he turned heel again 3 or 4 yrs later and became Chief Morely, they tried again....and again it failed. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 22, 2011 1:32:35 GMT -5
I can't remember exactly but I think Mick Foley once mentioned that he tried his best to but failed to help bring Val Venis to that next level. Yeah, and he wasn't the only one. Venis went over a red hot Rikishi in a cage match around 2000 also as a heel, but nobody cared. Then when he turned heel again 3 or 4 yrs later and became Chief Morely, they tried again....and again it failed. I actually recall Chief Morely catching on, but then dropped for the safety of Val Venis, which is a shame as he was excellent in that role. That was a weird stretch of time when wrestlers openly acknowledged they had gimmicks. |
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BHB
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Post by BHB on Dec 22, 2011 5:17:10 GMT -5
He put Edge over huge with their matches together, and that whole feud cemented Edge in the Main even for the rest of his career. He also put CM Punk over big this summer. I'd say thats got more to do with Edge and CM Punk - they're both so talented, they were going to make it against anyone. Though Edge did having amazing chemstry with Cena. |
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 22, 2011 6:44:05 GMT -5
He also put CM Punk over big this summer. I'd say thats got more to do with Edge and CM Punk - they're both so talented, they were going to make it against anyone. Though Edge did having amazing chemstry with Cena. And yet, despite such minor accomplishments as creating the TLC match and winning the tag titles with Hulk Hogan (Edge) and having several reigns as WHC and feuding with main eventers like Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton and Rey Mysterio(Punk), neither of them acheived their hottest run until they feuded with Cena. Total coincidence, I'm sure. |
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 22, 2011 7:53:09 GMT -5
To be fair to Cena, Miz was doomed from the start: He beat Orton for the title, but IIRC, he never actually feuded with Orton. Instead, he went on and feuded with Jerry Lawler, a man who's ship had long sailed. And after a two month feud culminating in Miz never even getting a clean win, he and Cena were both sort of shoehorned into the main event of Wrestlemania in an angle that was less about the title, and more about The Rock. After Wrestlemania, of course, they just kinda handed the title back to Cena at Extreme Rules. There was never really any space in time FOR Cena to do any real pushing. And their WrestleMania match definitely didn't do either side any favors. This. Creative did absolutely nothing to help Miz during the 'Mania build up. The match was crap because it was treated like crap from the get go |
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Cronant
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Post by Cronant on Dec 22, 2011 8:16:24 GMT -5
He also put CM Punk over big this summer. I'd say thats got more to do with Edge and CM Punk - they're both so talented, they were going to make it against anyone. Though Edge did having amazing chemstry with Cena. CM Punk's storyline this summer doesn't work if it isn't against Cena. It was blatantly obvious, especially when he had the detour with HHH. |
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Post by thegame415 on Dec 22, 2011 18:49:55 GMT -5
Yeah, and he wasn't the only one. Venis went over a red hot Rikishi in a cage match around 2000 also as a heel, but nobody cared. Then when he turned heel again 3 or 4 yrs later and became Chief Morely, they tried again....and again it failed. I actually recall Chief Morely catching on, but then dropped for the safety of Val Venis, which is a shame as he was excellent in that role. That was a weird stretch of time when wrestlers openly acknowledged they had gimmicks. Let's not forget, the reason the Venis/Foley feud started was because Val took "Mr. Rocko" (Mr. Socko with Rock's face on it) and stuffed it in his pants. Val as a heel porn star didn't work. I wonder what would've happened had they pushed him higher while a member of RTC. |
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 22, 2011 20:33:22 GMT -5
I'd say thats got more to do with Edge and CM Punk - they're both so talented, they were going to make it against anyone. Though Edge did having amazing chemstry with Cena. And yet, despite such minor accomplishments as creating the TLC match and winning the tag titles with Hulk Hogan (Edge) and having several reigns as WHC and feuding with main eventers like Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton and Rey Mysterio(Punk), neither of them acheived their hottest run until they feuded with Cena. Total coincidence, I'm sure. Edge was over like crazy before he feuded with Cena though. Hell, he was over like crazy before Cena even debuted. It's just that Cena was the first person Edge got a real main event feud with. Come to think of it, I don't remember Cena really putting Edge over. I'm sure he did since they had so many matches, but the main thing that sticks out is Cena ending Edge's first reign less than a month after it started in their first real match together. I was very, VERY pissed off when that happened. |
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Dec 22, 2011 23:01:59 GMT -5
HHH didn't "make" Jeff Hardy. They had a series of matches from late 2007 to 2008 and HHH pinned him every time when it was for the WWE Title.Sure Jeff's rise to the WWE Title started when he won the #1 contender match by beating HHH at Armageddon but when he finally won the WWE Title he pinned Edge. And, IIRC, Edge had been taken out by HHH and Jeff got the pin -- so Hardy (who I don't and never have liked, so that's not my point -- with HHH clearly being established as the top guy in the ring. |
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Magician under the moonlight
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Dec 22, 2011 23:41:24 GMT -5
I actually recall Chief Morely catching on, but then dropped for the safety of Val Venis, which is a shame as he was excellent in that role. That was a weird stretch of time when wrestlers openly acknowledged they had gimmicks. Let's not forget, the reason the Venis/Foley feud started was because Val took "Mr. Rocko" (Mr. Socko with Rock's face on it) and stuffed it in his pants. Val as a heel porn star didn't work. I wonder what would've happened had they pushed him higher while a member of RTC. TO be fair, I really doubt that Venus would be a main eventer with both of these gimmicks, he was a mid-card - uppercard at best,. I doubt a pornstar as WE champ would work, and the RTC would not be that much better |
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Dec 22, 2011 23:53:55 GMT -5
I remember a slow push for a babyface Carlito that led to - someone please correct me if I'm wrong - a six-person inter-gender tag-team main event on Raw a few years ago featuring John Cena, Carlito, and Trish Stratus vs. Randy Orton, Edge, and Lita. I think they were trying to elevate Carlito to the main event, but it ended up being the first time I saw Orton do an "out of nowhere" RKO, pinning Carlito and ending that whole thing just like that.
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Magician under the moonlight
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Dec 22, 2011 23:57:56 GMT -5
Did they even try to 'make' Carlito? He got owned by every singe legend he faced. I mean, He lost the IC title to an oldman and he never got a win over Foley, who were both putting over a lot of stars. I don't thi9nk they really wanted to do anything about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2011 1:23:01 GMT -5
They did try to make Ric Flair to make Carlito by doing that mentor feud thing with Torrie Wilson but f***ing it up so badly.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 23, 2011 11:10:31 GMT -5
Did they even try to 'make' Carlito? He got owned by every singe legend he faced. I mean, He lost the IC title to an oldman and he never got a win over Foley, who were both putting over a lot of stars. I don't thi9nk they really wanted to do anything about it. Flair and Foley both busted their asses trying to make something of the guy. he was pushed like crazy, but he just didn't give a shit. |
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Dec 23, 2011 18:29:56 GMT -5
I thought Carlito actually got put over by HHH. Isn't that right?
Lito spit in the face of the people who tried to push him.
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Tarik Dee
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Post by Tarik Dee on Dec 23, 2011 21:26:59 GMT -5
I thought Carlito actually got put over by HHH. Isn't that right? Lito spit in the face of the people who tried to push him. Lito? did Lita and Vito became one? |
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Dec 24, 2011 0:03:39 GMT -5
I thought Carlito actually got put over by HHH. Isn't that right? Lito spit in the face of the people who tried to push him. Lito? did Lita and Vito became one? Notice you never saw them in the same place at the same time. ;D |
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Post by flatsdomino on Dec 24, 2011 14:53:29 GMT -5
I remember coming off REALLY hot streak at the end of '09, a lot of people (myself included) thought the feud with Triple H would "make" Sheamus, as Sheamus had yet to cleanly defeat a main eventer to that point, and all signs would seem to point to Triple H being the one to put over Sheamus big at 'Mania and cement him as a big-time player. That's obviously not what happened, as Sheamus STILL hasn't been "cemented" despite the fact that he's had TWO WWE title runs and competed at the top level. And honestly, I think not beating Triple H was a big reason why he was still yo-yo booked later in 2010 (and really, really badly for a while before his face turn) and even now gets stuck doing things like feuding with Jinder Mahal as opposed to being treated like a centerpiece of the show. CM Punk was in the same position before this July - now it'd be ridiculous to see him on the lower mid-card. BUt a guy like Sheamus can still get thrown around, and if he'd had that big 'Mania win over The Game it would have made him THE guy to beat and put him on track to be a consistent main eventer. None of that booking in late '10 would have happened if he had a win over Triple H at 'Mania and a world title run through the summer (a LEGIT one where he was allowed to actually GO OVER Orton and Cena & co.) and however he would've been booked, he would have at least had that win to fall back on in order to keep his heat alive.
They gave him a win at Extreme Rules yeah, but they had it be under cheap circumstances AND then buried it a year later by having HHH make Sheamus look like a joke. So in the end, what should have been a king-making (pun intended) feud for Sheamus, it wound up being a whole lot of nothing. What a blown opportunity, and probably the last chance Triple H will ever have to "make" somebody.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 15:55:20 GMT -5
Taker has put over a ton of people in the last couple years in my opinion.
JBL
Henry I believe beat him clean a couple times
Khali
Kennedy/MVP were shown as being able to hang with Taker and Kane
Orton
Jeff Hardy (he lost clean to him in a hardcore match a couple years ago on smackdown as well as the famous ladder match in 2001)
Vladimir beat Taker clean
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Post by Ryushinku on Dec 25, 2011 5:48:27 GMT -5
Cena also made Umaga look bona fide too? Booking failed him afterwards, but the Cena feud was a big success.
I think Cena-Miz could've ended up quite differently, built to something bigger, if it wasn't for Rock's return completely taking over there. It just overshadowed and was allowed to overpower everything. Not really the fault of the wrestlers there, things were put out of their control.
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