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Post by diegorivera on Dec 19, 2011 23:21:42 GMT -5
The ratings, PPV buyrates and merchandise sales will determine whether we have change or not.
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Dec 19, 2011 23:31:15 GMT -5
Man, looking at that picture we've come a loooooooooooooong way since the days when guys like Hogan and Warrior roamed the Earth.
I'd love to see that exact line-up of Champions say late 80's or early 90's.
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
Posts: 4,277
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Post by ronin705 on Dec 19, 2011 23:40:19 GMT -5
I didn't know Kofi Kingston was considered an "Internet Darling". Actually, I'm fairly certain the internet hates Kofi. Evan, yeah, but not Kofi. I love Kofi, and made him an upper carder in my wwe12 universe on raw..
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andrewgilkison
Bubba Ho-Tep
Sound of 300lbs of crap hitting the fan?
Posts: 558
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Post by andrewgilkison on Dec 20, 2011 0:01:36 GMT -5
Even Punk is calling it: {Spoiler} I guess I'm going to be "left behind", then, but I don't think there's a single person in that photo who's good enough to lace Mark Henry's boots. I can understand saying Triple H, Undertaker, or Shawn Michaels or anyone else in that statement... but MARK HENRY? I mean, yeah, the guy was cutting the promos of his career when he beat Orton for the belt, but the Summer of Punk is better than anything Mark Henry has ever done in his entire career. Henry isn't even in the same league as Punk, and given that he's in his 40's, isn't a very good wrestler, and is constantly injury prone, guys like Cody, Bryan, and Bourne and Kofi just have better long term upside value to the company.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 20, 2011 3:47:28 GMT -5
Even Punk is calling it: {Spoiler} I guess I'm going to be "left behind", then, but I don't think there's a single person in that photo who's good enough to lace Mark Henry's boots. You can't be serious. Punk, Air Boom, and Ryder are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more over than Henry ever has been, and they definitely sell more merch than he ever did. On top of that, they blow him out of the water in match quality.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 20, 2011 4:24:08 GMT -5
Not really.
CM Punk merely took over the spot held by Cena.
Zack Ryder is the U.S. Champion, but giving one midcarder a push does not equal change. We still have to see how Ryder's title reign works out. Will guys like McIntyre, Hawkins, & Reks step up and challenge for the title? Or will Ryder compete in meaningless non-title matches and constantly job to Miz, Del Rio, Barrett, or Kane, and not defend the title until he randomly drops it to the next flavor of the month.
Cody Rhodes is the IC Champion. But there is no midcard for him to defend the title against. The entire SmackDown midcard is so far below Rhodes, and Rhodes is so far above midcard level at this point. Yes, Ted DiBiase is getting a good push, and is the most likely candidate for Cody to drop the belt to, but again, Ted is just one midcarder, and he too is far above everyone else.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 20, 2011 5:28:06 GMT -5
Man, looking at that picture we've come a loooooooooooooong way since the days when guys like Hogan and Warrior roamed the Earth. I'd love to see that exact line-up of Champions say late 80's or early 90's. Wouldn't be a big photo since they only had WWF, IC, Tag Team and Women's belts at that time... but I guess an example from December 1989 would be... Hogan (WWF), Warrior (IC), Andre and Haku (Tag) and... um... Rockin' Robin Smith (Womens)?
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 20, 2011 8:22:28 GMT -5
As an old school ROH fan, it does make me smile to see the American Dragon, ol' Mr. Straight Edge, and Matt friggin' Sydal holding belts in the biggest company in the world.
That said, "change" in wrestling has very, very little to do with who's holding the titles, and much, much more to do with the booking and whether it can generate interest.
So I'm glad that some of my old favorites are wearing gold, but it's still WWE, a product I haven't thoroughly and consistently enjoyed since I was about 10 years old.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,077
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 20, 2011 9:17:12 GMT -5
I'd say the current champion lineup is a little more than testing the waters, it remains to be seen if things stick, but this is the second time this year we've been given reason to be this optimistic. This summer could have been the testing time, they had MITB, gave Punk and Chirstian the belts, Bryan won MITB, Zach Ryder was starting to become a known name, then they pulled back a little bit, put HHH into the picture etc. but they're giving it another go.
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on Dec 20, 2011 10:19:17 GMT -5
I know Michael Cole gets a lot of flack on here, but I thought he handled the end of RAW very well. As a heel, he put over Punk, Bryan, and Ryder and how we may very well be looking at a new generation of stars. We know Vince fed those lines, and I think Cole really hit it out of the park.
I really think that Vince is testing the waters. Maybe he's listening to Punk, or maybe he's listening to Triple H, but whoever he's listening to, it's at least a fresh direction.
An earlier poster made an important point though. Fresh faces are only one part of change. What we need is a change in the culture of WWE. I think people like Punk would be fine if someone like Chris Masters would have risen to the top of WWE, because he knew Masters worked hard at his craft. It's not about ex-ROH or PWG allumni becoming WWE champions, it's about people who work hard and love wrestling being given the chance to act out their passions for the profession.
That group photo floating around shows seven people who are passionate about pro wrestling, and I think that makes for a great culture change for pro wrestling, buyrates or merchandise be damned.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2011 11:07:42 GMT -5
Man, looking at that picture we've come a loooooooooooooong way since the days when guys like Hogan and Warrior roamed the Earth. I'd love to see that exact line-up of Champions say late 80's or early 90's. Wouldn't be a big photo since they only had WWF, IC, Tag Team and Women's belts at that time... but I guess an example from December 1989 would be... Hogan (WWF), Warrior (IC), Andre and Haku (Tag) and... um... Rockin' Robin Smith (Womens)? I guess you could say that in early 1990, it would be Hogan (WWF/WWE), Warrior (IC), Ric Flair (if you use WCW/NWA lineage for the "big gold belt"), Lex Luger (US), and Andre/Haku (Tag).
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
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Post by 543Y2J on Dec 20, 2011 11:12:04 GMT -5
Not really. CM Punk merely took over the spot held by Cena. Zack Ryder is the U.S. Champion, but giving one midcarder a push does not equal change. We still have to see how Ryder's title reign works out. Will guys like McIntyre, Hawkins, & Reks step up and challenge for the title? Or will Ryder compete in meaningless non-title matches and constantly job to Miz, Del Rio, Barrett, or Kane, and not defend the title until he randomly drops it to the next flavor of the month. Cody Rhodes is the IC Champion. But there is no midcard for him to defend the title against. The entire SmackDown midcard is so far below Rhodes, and Rhodes is so far above midcard level at this point. Yes, Ted DiBiase is getting a good push, and is the most likely candidate for Cody to drop the belt to, but again, Ted is just one midcarder, and he too is far above everyone else. They either need to start promoting more stars that are mostly featured on superstars and put them on smackdown. Or they need to start debuting more peole on smackdown. One of the major things iv had against them in the past few years is that hey always seem to debut the majority of people on raw and not smackdown, an even balence on debuts on each brands would be easier to create a midcard for each show.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Dec 20, 2011 11:23:38 GMT -5
It appears it's starting
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Dec 20, 2011 11:30:30 GMT -5
Even Punk is calling it: Why I love wrestling. They're happy to be there, all look pumped up, and it's great to see so many young faces with belts. Hopefully this trend keeps going.
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Dec 20, 2011 12:31:30 GMT -5
Wouldn't be a big photo since they only had WWF, IC, Tag Team and Women's belts at that time... but I guess an example from December 1989 would be... Hogan (WWF), Warrior (IC), Andre and Haku (Tag) and... um... Rockin' Robin Smith (Womens)? I guess you could say that in early 1990, it would be Hogan (WWF/WWE), Warrior (IC), Ric Flair (if you use WCW/NWA lineage for the "big gold belt"), Lex Luger (US), and Andre/Haku (Tag). Doing a little research and picking at around this time in 1991 as the date I came up with. WWF Champion - Hulk Hogan Intercontinental Champion - Mr Perfect Tag Champions - Nasty Boys Womens Champion (technically deactivated in 91) Rockin' Robin WCW Champion - Ric Flair US Champion - Sting
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Post by Manute Bol on Dec 20, 2011 16:23:29 GMT -5
Even Punk is calling it: The times they are a-changin'....
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 20, 2011 16:26:36 GMT -5
I don't even think you can say Punk's change has happened in kayfabe yet, given that Super Dave is still in power.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2011 16:32:21 GMT -5
Even Punk is calling it: Curious is this for like a WWE photoshoot or something? Or something the wrestlers took for themselves
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 20, 2011 16:48:59 GMT -5
Yeah change has happened; that change is that CM Punk is essentially turning into Triple H.
Look what has happened since he tried for change: His old buddy Daniel Bryan wins the World Title, Zack Ryder wins US Title after he (and a few others) demanded he be pushed, and his (now ex) girlfriend wins the Diva's Title. At least WWE didn't hire Colt Cabana like he convinced the fans to support (despite the fact that Colt didn't get over at all on his own back when he actually was in the WWE).
I like Punk and all, but it seems to me like he's turning into any other wrestler with power. Now I'm not saying he's the only reason certain things are happening, but I don't want WWE to turn into anything similar to Ring of Honor or any other indie promotion. If I wanted to watch one of them, I would. If only the fans didn't expect/want him to turn face after that shoot promo (you know, the one where he called all of the fans poor/lazy assholes who only use WWE merch to get money).
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Post by crimsonwolf on Dec 20, 2011 17:19:48 GMT -5
Curious is this for like a WWE photoshoot or something? Or something the wrestlers took for themselves I think it was something Punk arranged since it came from his twitter.
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