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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jul 22, 2012 23:30:10 GMT -5
I'd say it broke down like this, saying Attitude began officially in late 97, and ended at WM 17.... Late 97 1. Austin 2. HBK 3. Undertaker Early 98 1. Austin 2. HBK 3. Undertaker Mid 98 1. Austin 2. Taker 3. HHH Late 98 1. Austin 2. Rock 3. Foley Early 99 1. Austin 2. Rock 3. Foley Mid 99
1. Austin 2. HHH 3. Rock Late 99
1. HHH 2. Rock 3. Foley/Big showEarly 2000
1. HHH/Stephanie 2. Rock 3. Big Show/FoleyMid 2000 1. Rock 2. HHH 3. Taker/Jericho Late 2000 1. Rock 2. Austin 3. HHH Early 2001 1. Rock 2. Austin 3. HHH He was in it quite a bit at the end.....I guess it would be a shootout between he and Foley for #3, with HHH edging him out due to Foley retiring. My opinion on what should be changed on a few of your rankings. I would say you're mostly right except for a few parts. No way was Foley ahead of Triple H in the Summer of 99. Foley was hurt for most of it. And Triple H was booked stronger than the Rock in the summer of 1999. He was beating The Rock almost every week on TV. Triple H was feuding with Austin and picking a fight with Jesse Ventura while The Rock was sticking Billy Gunns face in a large woman's ass. And go back and watch anything from Summerslam 1999 through Wrestlemania 2000. Triple H was the focus of the show. The Rock was having ppv matches with the British Bulldog and the New Age Outlaws and a mini feud with Al Snow for god's sake. Triple H was the focal point of the entire company for about 6-7 months. I did alter the first point, but I stand by the second.....the Rock was already Super Over, and was the bigger star, even though he was in side feuds in late 99. HHH was being focused to try and establish him as "The Guy," but I don't think that fully solidified (at least, with the fans as a whole) until after WM 2000. And even then, he always played seconds and thirds to Austin/Rock during that period, because he wasn't on that level with them, as far as Star Power goes.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jul 22, 2012 23:33:07 GMT -5
It's absolutely baffling for anyone to place all of the blame on HHH for ratings starting to dip in 2002. I'm pretty sure the departure of Rock and Austin, along with the brand split (It pushed A LOT of people away.) and the fact that, face it, wrestling was nothing more than a fad for a few years had a lot to do with it.
Man 2002 was a strange year! Watch a show from January 2002, then a show from December 2002 and it barely seems like the same company.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jul 22, 2012 23:35:47 GMT -5
Going by www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2005-ratings/ there is no real difference (2. to .3 for a few weeks then back to the normal) in the ratings from before Cena's arrival to after. The average was higher than 2004 but 6 months of that was without Cena. Even if you completely blame Hunter for Raw losing ratings (ignoring the move from USA to Spike which hurt) in 02-04, then why not Cena for 08-12? The fact is fans get tired of seeing the same people on top and the time frame people love to kill Hunter for was the time he was ending his run on top and a lot were sick of him, same as were seeing for Cena now but no one blames Cena, they actually claim he's the only thing saving the shows. As a matter of fact, going by the ratings, Cena's best ratings drawing feud was with...Triple H. I don't completely blame Triple H, but when you position yourself as the be-all, end all of professional wrestling like HHH did in 2002 on then you warrant certain criticisms. So what a guy says on TV and how he is booked by people is now what he officially feels? He is made to be the Ric Flair figure and all of a sudden he feels he is the greatest ever and must be judged to that standard despite him saying the opposite of that on several times? I am saying that once they made that move to Spike, the ratings started falling every year outside of a few special episodes. Also, the next year they did high 3s to low 4 from Jan to Aug. (so you cannot just say it was a WM bump) that year. People act like he is the reason they tanked when that never happened. They never tanked, they went down slowly and it started with a bad move to Spike. They went to the mid 3s at worst where they held until 2010 and they started to dip again. It's not a Triple H thing, it's not a Cena thing, it's a WWE thing but for some reason people acting like Triple H killed WWE dead when by any measurable account that is the furthest from the truth.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 22, 2012 23:51:03 GMT -5
It's absolutely baffling for anyone to place all of the blame on HHH for ratings starting to dip in 2002. I'm pretty sure the departure of Rock and Austin, along with the brand split (It pushed A LOT of people away.) and the fact that, face it, wrestling was nothing more than a fad for a few years had a lot to do with it. Sure it was a fad and all of that, but it doesn't explain the massive dropoff. What does explain it is lousy booking and writing. Started with the InVasion and just snowballed from there. They HAD a guy just as popular by the end of 2001 as The Rock or Stone Cold in Rob Van Dam, and they did nothing with him. Those are the kind of decisions that lead to the ratings dips and yes that heavily includes Triple H.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jul 23, 2012 10:57:54 GMT -5
I thought business picked up with the rise of Batista and Cena in 2005. I know that ratings on Raw, for example, picked up when Cena was moved there. Going by www.gerweck.net/tv-ratings/2005-ratings/ there is no real difference (2. to .3 for a few weeks then back to the normal) in the ratings from before Cena's arrival to after. The average was higher than 2004 but 6 months of that was without Cena. Even if you completely blame Hunter for Raw losing ratings (ignoring the move from USA to Spike which hurt) in 02-04, then why not Cena for 08-12? The fact is fans get tired of seeing the same people on top and the time frame people love to kill Hunter for was the time he was ending his run on top and a lot were sick of him, same as were seeing for Cena now but no one blames Cena, they actually claim he's the only thing saving the shows. As a matter of fact, going by the ratings, Cena's best ratings drawing feud was with...Triple H. I don't blame Triple H at all for the financial decline, but that doesn't change that he wasn't the solution WWE needed to bring business back up. Don't get me wrong, as I've said many times before, he IS a draw and a legend, my issue is where people try and put him on a pedestal with people like Rock or Austin. He isn't. For that matter, neither is Cena, but I didn't mention him because he's not the subject of this thread. But in Cena's defense, as far as business from 2005-2007 went, I noticed that things like live attendance and merchandise sales (which had been dropping from 2002-2004) did increase during 2005 and 2006, which is when he was coming up.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 23, 2012 11:27:31 GMT -5
It amazes me how many times we can rehash the same thread.
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Post by norsisclouds on Jul 23, 2012 12:01:52 GMT -5
Triple h is a tremendous talent inside the ring. No one can take that away from him. But he is not in the tier of the Rock or Austin. Never. No matter how much the wwe wants him to be, he never was as popular or transcending as his peers. Hell, even Cena leapfrogged him in terms of being the face of the company. I actually firmly believe that HHH was instrumental in holding Edge back from being even bigger than he was. He was massively talented, and yet every time he was on RAW, barring his feud with Cena would get cut down at the knees. He only had room to breathe on Smackdown, and after the recent revelation that Keibler was denied getting on Sex in the City and other wrestlers were prevented from doing outside work and deals, the whole CM Punk/UFC thing etc... I really think he was instrumental in screwing Edge at keypoints in his career. The rumors have always been around, but I'd completely forgotten about them, except for that insistence that Edge job to HBK when he was going to be WHC, even against HBK's objections but because HHH said so... Just don't trust that guy.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 23, 2012 12:23:28 GMT -5
Triple h is a tremendous talent inside the ring. No one can take that away from him. But he is not in the tier of the Rock or Austin. Never. No matter how much the wwe wants him to be, he never was as popular or transcending as his peers. Hell, even Cena leapfrogged him in terms of being the face of the company. I actually firmly believe that HHH was instrumental in holding Edge back from being even bigger than he was. He was massively talented, and yet every time he was on RAW, barring his feud with Cena would get cut down at the knees. He only had room to breathe on Smackdown, and after the recent revelation that Keibler was denied getting on Sex in the City and other wrestlers were prevented from doing outside work and deals, the whole CM Punk/UFC thing etc... I really think he was instrumental in screwing Edge at keypoints in his career. The rumors have always been around, but I'd completely forgotten about them, except for that insistence that Edge job to HBK when he was going to be WHC, even against HBK's objections but because HHH said so... Just don't trust that guy. Okay, I can be a pretty big HHH critic, but it's kind of laughable claiming an 11 time World Champion was held back.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 12:24:31 GMT -5
I actually firmly believe that HHH was instrumental in holding Edge back from being even bigger than he was. He was massively talented, and yet every time he was on RAW, barring his feud with Cena would get cut down at the knees. He only had room to breathe on Smackdown, and after the recent revelation that Keibler was denied getting on Sex in the City and other wrestlers were prevented from doing outside work and deals, the whole CM Punk/UFC thing etc... I really think he was instrumental in screwing Edge at keypoints in his career. The rumors have always been around, but I'd completely forgotten about them, except for that insistence that Edge job to HBK when he was going to be WHC, even against HBK's objections but because HHH said so... Just don't trust that guy. Okay, I can be a pretty big HHH critic, but it's kind of laughable claiming an 11 time World Champion was held back. 11-time in 5 years (2006-2011). Just...think about that for a second.
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