h
Hank Scorpio
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Post by h on Apr 25, 2012 20:47:56 GMT -5
Ummm...no? No one is arguing over the quality here...Leno just brings the ratings, whether you like him or not. He is the best in that regards, bar none. Actually, the Avatar/McDonald's comparison was right on. My comment was that Hulk Hogan and Jay Leno are the biggest names (ie. the top in terms of ratings), but that neither are the best at what they do. Jay Leno simply isn't the best late night talk show host. Other people do the job better. They are funnier, their shows are more enjoyable, and they can deliver a joke without beating it to death. My comment made it clear that I see a huge difference between ratings and quality. Someone responded, claiming that ratings and quality were the same thing. The Avatar/McDonald's comparison disagreed with ratings=quality. Perhaps you just didn't read the post to which billymax was responding. |
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JDviant
Unicron
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Post by JDviant on Apr 25, 2012 22:24:48 GMT -5
Are the people who are better then him just worse at making people give a crap about them then? I guess if they lack Leno's charisma and ability to connect to his audience on a massive scale that would explain why's he higher rated, and the Hogan comparison would be apt.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Apr 25, 2012 22:35:21 GMT -5
Jay Leno couldn't stay out of the game, NBC did not give Conan time to build his audience, and Leno's new show, which preceded TTS, had terrible ratings that bled over to TTS. It crippled it. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd argue they made Leno's show suck to sabotage Conan's show so they could justify the contract termination and reinstate the status quo. Remember, Conan got the Tonight Show gig as part of a contact negotiation... That NBC wasn't too enthusiastic about...
It's New Coke -> Coca Cola Classic stuff. For old people.
Leno may not have stolen cookies from the cookie jar, but he has a little something on his face.
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h
Hank Scorpio
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Post by h on Apr 25, 2012 23:56:51 GMT -5
I suspect that part of it is just people watching what they're told is the best and then falling into a rut.
Seriously, given a good view of the alternatives, I can't imagine anyone choosing Jay Leno's signature delivery:
"(Insert joke here)...and then they found it...IN HIS CAR!"
"Yeah, you see, it was there the whole time. When they were looking for it, it was actually in his car. After all the other places, it was in his car all along. That's...that's where they found it, was in his car. Not a friend's car, not a neighbor's car, but in his own car."
"(Insert joke here)...for A DOLLAR AND TWENTY FOUR CENTS!"
"You see, that's how much it cost. A dollar and twenty four cents. Not a dollar, not a dollar twenty-five, not a dollar-fifty. One dollar and twenty four cents. They didn't...they didn't round it. They just left the price right there. At a dollar and twenty four cents. That was the exact cost."
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Post by willywonka666 on Apr 26, 2012 6:40:18 GMT -5
Jay Leno couldn't stay out of the game, NBC did not give Conan time to build his audience, and Leno's new show, which preceded TTS, had terrible ratings that bled over to TTS. It crippled it. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd argue they made Leno's show suck to sabotage Conan's show so they could justify the contract termination and reinstate the status quo. Remember, Conan got the Tonight Show gig as part of a contact negotiation... That NBC wasn't too enthusiastic about... It's New Coke -> Coca Cola Classic stuff. For old people. Leno may not have stolen cookies from the cookie jar, but he has a little something on his face. NBC made Leno step down to begin with and then freaked at the prospect of him going to another network so they gave him a show with an even BETTER time slot, which was also a cost cutting move. It didn't pan out, but I'm not sure I buy the story that local news affiliates bitched to NBC about Jay's ratings killing their ratings. If you're just a guy that does news are you really going to bitch at NBC for a decision they made? If you had balls that big, you'd be doing something bigger than local news. DVR's are killing late night ratings, not Conan or anyone else. Speaking of ratings, Conan is pulling the same numbers that George Lopez was once they moved him to midnight(11 central) following Conan and noone liked New Coke |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 26, 2012 6:53:13 GMT -5
well, nobody likes them except old people, so I guess so. I'm 30 (Not exactly "old") and I like him. So, there goes that |
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Apr 26, 2012 8:04:25 GMT -5
Since Leno is #1 in the ratings, he is the best at what he does. So that makes Leno the CM Punk of Late Night  So it would. ;D |
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Apr 26, 2012 8:07:01 GMT -5
well, nobody likes them except old people, so I guess so. Leno leads the ratings in the 18-34 demo so that blows your theory out of the water. |
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Apr 26, 2012 8:09:55 GMT -5
NBC made Leno step down to begin with and then freaked at the prospect of him going to another network so they gave him a show with an even BETTER time slot, which was also a cost cutting move. It didn't pan out, but I'm not sure I buy the story that local news affiliates bitched to NBC about Jay's ratings killing their ratings. If you're just a guy that does news are you really going to bitch at NBC for a decision they made? If you had balls that big, you'd be doing something bigger than local news. DVR's are killing late night ratings, not Conan or anyone else. Speaking of ratings, Conan is pulling the same numbers that George Lopez was once they moved him to midnight(11 central) following Conan and noone liked New Coke Well said. And NBC made Leno step down because they freaked out about losing Conan to begin with. |
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Apr 26, 2012 8:12:28 GMT -5
Ummm...no? No one is arguing over the quality here...Leno just brings the ratings, whether you like him or not. He is the best in that regards, bar none. Actually, the Avatar/McDonald's comparison was right on. My comment was that Hulk Hogan and Jay Leno are the biggest names (ie. the top in terms of ratings), but that neither are the best at what they do. Jay Leno simply isn't the best late night talk show host. Other people do the job better. They are funnier, their shows are more enjoyable, and they can deliver a joke without beating it to death. My comment made it clear that I see a huge difference between ratings and quality. Someone responded, claiming that ratings and quality were the same thing. The Avatar/McDonald's comparison disagreed with ratings=quality. Perhaps you just didn't read the post to which billymax was responding. That your opinion. The ratings show that more people feel Leno does the job better than anyone else. Your opinion does not = fact. Therefore, your comparison fails. |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 26, 2012 8:46:30 GMT -5
Actually, the Avatar/McDonald's comparison was right on. My comment was that Hulk Hogan and Jay Leno are the biggest names (ie. the top in terms of ratings), but that neither are the best at what they do. Jay Leno simply isn't the best late night talk show host. Other people do the job better. They are funnier, their shows are more enjoyable, and they can deliver a joke without beating it to death. My comment made it clear that I see a huge difference between ratings and quality. Someone responded, claiming that ratings and quality were the same thing. The Avatar/McDonald's comparison disagreed with ratings=quality. Perhaps you just didn't read the post to which billymax was responding. That your opinion. The ratings show that more people feel Leno does the job better than anyone else. Your opinion does not = fact. Therefore, your comparison fails. So that means I make the best hamburgers in town, because nobody sells as many as McDonald's. And PVR's and the internet have made ratings archaic as all hell. I bet you Leno's TV audience is his only audience, there's likely not alot of people PVRing him to watch in the morning or watching The Tonight Show online at 4 in the morning whereas Conan has reach beyond TV. Honestly, I really don't wanna get into the whole Leno/Conan thing because at the end of the day they're 2 different audiences. Leno serves the 50+ crowd, and Conan serves the 18+ crowd. |
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 26, 2012 9:15:49 GMT -5
NBC made Leno step down to begin with and then freaked at the prospect of him going to another network so they gave him a show with an even BETTER time slot, which was also a cost cutting move. It didn't pan out, but I'm not sure I buy the story that local news affiliates bitched to NBC about Jay's ratings killing their ratings. If you're just a guy that does news are you really going to bitch at NBC for a decision they made? If you had balls that big, you'd be doing something bigger than local news. DVR's are killing late night ratings, not Conan or anyone else. Speaking of ratings, Conan is pulling the same numbers that George Lopez was once they moved him to midnight(11 central) following Conan and noone liked New Coke Well said. And NBC made Leno step down because they freaked out about losing Conan to begin with. I was going to dispute your facts on Leno and demographics, but I'd be in the wrong. tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/04/19/late-night-tv-ratings-for-the-week-of-april-9-april-13-2012/130005/I think I've cool somewhat after this affair. I was really pro-conan and I still am, but in hindsight NBC bungled this mess up. So let's look how it breaks down. In an attempt to keep Conan they promise him the Tonight Show. They announce the change about five years in advance. About the time of the Tonight Show switch NBC has a big merger with comcast coming up. Obviously NBC wants to present the best face for the company ratings wise. Worried about losing Jay to a rival network, they sign Jay up with the promise of this prime time show and a big fat contract. Now Jay said in his interview with 60 minutes he knew it was a bad idea for a show in prime time. The Jay Leno Show tanks and it can be argued that this hurts the local affliates 11pm newscasts and the Tonight Show. NBC tries to rectify the situation by moving Conan an hour back. Conan obviously is not happy with this and negotiates his exit. Now do I think Jay's a butthole for not exiting gracefully? Yes, however that's my opinion. Conan could have left for greener pastures, but he wanted the prestige of the tonight show. Jay could have left if wasn't happy with the switch. Jeff Zucker deserves most of the heat for this. This was a cost issue for NBC. If they let Jay go it would have cost them much more than Conan. |
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Glitch
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Watching you.
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Post by Glitch on Apr 26, 2012 13:41:19 GMT -5
I thought Conan was the Sheamus of late night. XD |
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Apr 26, 2012 13:42:27 GMT -5
NBC made Leno step down to begin with and then freaked at the prospect of him going to another network so they gave him a show with an even BETTER time slot, which was also a cost cutting move. It didn't pan out, but I'm not sure I buy the story that local news affiliates bitched to NBC about Jay's ratings killing their ratings. If you're just a guy that does news are you really going to bitch at NBC for a decision they made? If you had balls that big, you'd be doing something bigger than local news. DVR's are killing late night ratings, not Conan or anyone else. Speaking of ratings, Conan is pulling the same numbers that George Lopez was once they moved him to midnight(11 central) following Conan and noone liked New Coke 1. I realize they made him step down, but that's a result of the prior contract negotiation with Conan. The heart of the problem was giving Leno a new show. They should have moved on, but Leno's show, while primetime, demonstrates that the talk show format is a bad fit for that time slot. Like I said, Leno is not solely to blame for this, but he does deserve some blame. All in all, it was a clusterf*** of incompetency on NBC's part. 2. Local news affiliates do more than just broadcast news - that's just the bulk of their original programming. That said, since local news broadcasting is advertising money straight to their pockets, it is in their best interests to maintain good ratings leading up to news broadcasts. Hence the bitching. 3. I agree that DVR, as well as Youtube, Hulu, and pirating are killing ratings, but it is more indicative that ratings need to be reconfigured and brought into the 21st century. Conan's Tonight Show had good view numbers on Hulu, and that has to deal with his audience. On a related note, there is a positive correlation between high box office returns and high piracy rates. The fans are there, just not always in one place any more. 4. I realize that New Coke/Coke Classic isn't a perfect analogy, but the old people left Conan and returned to watch Leno. |
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lovingway
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Post by lovingway on Apr 26, 2012 14:00:37 GMT -5
Shane Douglas, the leader of an offshoot channel and Colbert would be either Sabu or Sandman |
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Massive G
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yo hago esto
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Post by Massive G on Apr 26, 2012 14:03:43 GMT -5
well, nobody likes them except old people, so I guess so. I'm 30 (Not exactly "old") and I like him. So, there goes that  |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 26, 2012 14:10:22 GMT -5
Shane Douglas, the leader of an offshoot channel and Colbert would be either Sabu or Sandman No, George Lopez is Shane Douglas. Marginally entertaining at times, but he thinks he's God's gift to his industry. |
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wildojinx
Wade Wilson
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Post by wildojinx on Apr 26, 2012 17:40:11 GMT -5
So who are Jimmy Fallon and Carson Daly?
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Post by willywonka666 on Apr 26, 2012 20:33:34 GMT -5
Well said. And NBC made Leno step down because they freaked out about losing Conan to begin with. I was going to dispute your facts on Leno and demographics, but I'd be in the wrong. tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/04/19/late-night-tv-ratings-for-the-week-of-april-9-april-13-2012/130005/I think I've cool somewhat after this affair. I was really pro-conan and I still am, but in hindsight NBC bungled this mess up. So let's look how it breaks down. In an attempt to keep Conan they promise him the Tonight Show. They announce the change about five years in advance. About the time of the Tonight Show switch NBC has a big merger with comcast coming up. Obviously NBC wants to present the best face for the company ratings wise. Worried about losing Jay to a rival network, they sign Jay up with the promise of this prime time show and a big fat contract. Now Jay said in his interview with 60 minutes he knew it was a bad idea for a show in prime time. The Jay Leno Show tanks and it can be argued that this hurts the local affliates 11pm newscasts and the Tonight Show. NBC tries to rectify the situation by moving Conan an hour back. Conan obviously is not happy with this and negotiates his exit. Now do I think Jay's a butthole for not exiting gracefully? Yes, however that's my opinion. Conan could have left for greener pastures, but he wanted the prestige of the tonight show. Jay could have left if wasn't happy with the switch. Jeff Zucker deserves most of the heat for this. This was a cost issue for NBC. If they let Jay go it would have cost them much more than Conan. Conan could have stayed but as stated in an article at Cracked.com, NBC never promised him any particular timeslot and they said that was also his lawyer's fault there. That and if Jay tried to be the big man and not come back, all his some 200 staffers were out of their jobs. One way or another, Conan was leaving anyway |
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Apr 26, 2012 20:41:07 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Jay, but I think it's all on NBC, in fact NBC deserved it if it had lost Jay and Conan after that debacle
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